Advise for beginner

SRT said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also possibly to
cycle the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

Hybrid (similar looks to mountain bike, but with road bike wheels and
tyres), or a road bike. That'll be the best part of £200-£300. On the other
hand, you could get a mountain bike and fit slicks. It won't be as fast as a
hybrid, but you can find a lot more second hand mountain bikes in the ad
mag. Don't go to Halfords either, go to a proper bike shop.

Quoted message said:

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and preferably brand
new.

The bike will be used on the road.

Your best bet would be a Hybrid if you want inexpensive IMO. I see an awful
lot of expensive mountain bikes in the ad-mag with things like "only ridden
twice" in the ad, and a second hand hardtail (ie, front suspension but no
back suspension) is your best bet for something cheap.

SRT said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also possibly to
cycle the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and preferably brand
new.

The bike will be used on the road.

TIA.

I would link directly to the bike in question at Edinbugh Cycle Co-op if I
could without presenting you with an annoying 'Cannot Set Cookies' message.
Why don't they fix that [censored] system of theirs?

Anyhow, the site is here:
http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/index.cfm click on Bikes >
Edinburgh & Revolution Bicycles 2004 > Edinburgh Hybrid Bikes 2004, there's
a couple ideal for commuting at just over £200.

Don't spend less than that on a new bike -- it's not worth it -- or go
secondhand.

SRT said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also possibly to cycle
the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and preferably brand new.

Whatever you do, don't fall for the adverts sometimes seen in national
newspapers of bikes for £50. THey'll have [censored] and/or dangerous
components, weigh the better part of half a ton, will wear out/break in
three months, and make your cycling life a misery.

As others have said, you can buy a fair starter bike for £200 or so.
Make sure it has:

- aluminium wheel rims, not steel (which have all the braking efficiency
of a wet paper bag)
- mudguards, for that pleasantly dry riding experience.
- unless you're riding someplace hilly like Sheffield, huge numbers of
gears are not required.
- smooth-tread tyres, not knobbly ones.

- don't forget to factor lights, a decent lock (eg one that's passed the
"SoldSecure" standard), a basic toolkit, and a track pump (like a
stirrup pump) into the cost.

When you choose a bike for size:

- straddle the top crossbar just forward of the saddle, with your feet
flat on the floor. You should have clearance under your crotch of at
least half an inch for road riding (much more for offroad mountain bikers)

- now, with a handy assistant to balance the bike upright, sit on the
saddle. Rotate the pedal until the ball (some say the heel) of one
foot is on the lowest pedal. The saddle height should be adjustable
such that that extended leg is almost, but not quite, locked at the
knee. That's the optimum/most efficient saddle height.

- again with your handy assistant, sit on the saddle and hold the bars.
You should be comfortable. Urban riders often prefer a more upright
position for better visibility in traffic. Longer distance/country
commuters often prefer a lower, more stretched out position (sometimes
with the aid of drop handlebars or "butterfly bars"😉 for reduced wind
resistance, but this can put more weight on the arms.

- If you have small hands, make sure that the brake levers are easily
reachable (or adjustable to be so).

Talk to local bike shop staff. Any decent bike shop will let you take
it out round the block/car park/park for a test ride, leaving something
suitable as security (car keys, credit card, spouse, firstborn child, etc)

SRT said:

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and preferably brand n=

ew.

Others have already said it, but I'll say it too so as to hopefully=20
reinforce the idea. A new bike under about =A3200 is quite likely to be =

the bicycle equivalent of a Lada. If it has any sort of suspension or=20
disc brakes at this price level then it's the bike equivalent of a=20
clapped out Lada with Go Faster Stripes and a big spoiler. Or put=20
another way, "as inexpensive as possible" means a false economy so it's=20
well worth spending a little more, into the "as inexpensive as=20
reasonably sensible" category.

To be as inexpensive as reasonably sensible keep the feature count low,=20
so the money goes on stuff that matters: a good frame, decent=20
transmission and an acceptable saddle.

Something like this=20
http://www.ridgeback.co.uk/bikes/2004/bike.asp?seriesid=3D21&index=3D2=20
should do the job. You don't /need/ rack and mudguards but IMHO they're =

well worth it for a useful bike. The mudguards mean you don't get=20
sprayed with water every time the road is wet and the rack means you can =

have the bike frame take the weight of any luggage rather than you,=20
which is /much/ more comfortable. You can retrofit stuff like that but=20
in practice it tends to be cheaper if you get it with the bike to start=20
with.

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Suggestion - get a hold of cycling mags - I suggest Cycling+ and the CTC
magazine are good ones as the emphasis in them is not cycling as only a sport.
Read, inwardly digest.

Online resources to look through include
http://www.sjscycles.com/thornbrochure.asp
http://www.dawescycles.com/ (you can't go far wrong with a Dawes - the
Discovery range may be just what you are looking for at reasonable cost)

I can understand you wanting inexpensive - but if "inexpensive as possible and
preferably brand new" equates to cheap - *beware*. Cheap bikes are a false
economy. Honest. Been there, done that. Saw the light when I got a decent bike
that cost more money. Cheap can mean *heavy*, badly put together, cheap nasty
and easily breakable components. Buying a decent bike can cost more initially,
but you are rewarded with a machine that can give you years of service and be a
pleasure to ride, which encourages you to *want* to cycle more. *Cheap* bikes
swifty put a person off cycling.

If I was starting out cycling now and looking for a bike for what you describe,
at a reasonable price for what I'd be getting, I'd be seriously considering a
Dawes, such as a Discovery or a Horizon.

The key thing with any bike is *fit*. Try bikes out for size. Do not buy the
first one you try out - try *lots* of bikes before you make your decision. You
may end up going back to the one you first tried, but the value of sizing and
trying out bikes cannot be over-emphasised IMO

Also, if possible, find a local bike shop that is *not* a Halfords. On personal
experience, I cannot recommend buying a bike from Halfords. Quality control of
products is poor. I will never buy a bike from that organisation again. They
are reasonably priced for basic stuff such as lights & helmets (if you choose
to wear a helmet). But, on one light at least they are way overpriced [1]

If you post which part of the country you are located, people here may well be
able to recommend bike shops to you where they've received good service. For
example, if you are in Norfolk, I highly recommend Specialized Cycles in
Connaught Road, Norwich (and you can get Dawes there). Another good shop in
Norwich is Pedal Revolution see
http://www.pedalrevolution.co.uk/
The shop is in Bethel Street.

Whilst buying a bike - think about the stuff that goes with it. Locks for
example - insurance policies often state a D-lock is the type that must be used
if you want your bike covered against theft etc. Lights - a good front & rear
light is a *must* Also of help, if cycling in the dark, is for you to wear
reflectives, such as a reflective waistcoat. Hampshire County Council have an
online road safety shop, which does stuff for remarkably reasonable prices. The
web addy is
http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/RoadSafetyOnline/topic/topicmenu-1.stm For
example, a fluorescent waistcost with wide reflective strips is only a fiver.

Best of luck in finding a bike that is right for you and have much happy
pedalling.

Cheers, helen s

[1] The Cateye HL-EL 300 which is £26.39 from Cycle Express
<www.cycleexpress.co.uk> is over £40 in Halfords in Norwich...

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On Wed, 19 May 2004 09:30:22 +0100, SRT wrote:

I back up what Doki says, and I'm sure the Edinburgh bikes
are great.

For advice, you could check out the new LCC booklets.
http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=111
They're not just for people in London!

Buying a Bike http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=409
Cycling to Work http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=408

Either read them online in PDF format, or order a copy.

BTW, if commuting ten miles each way take it easy at first.
Get to know your route, and your bike. You'll take time to
get the clothing right, and the clothes to take into the workplace.
You don't have to do it EVERY day.

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

I will never buy a
bike from that organisation again.

I'm amazed you considered it in the first place. Didn't Vernon even attempt
to persuade you not to?

Quoted message said:

I'm amazed you considered it in the first place. Didn't Vernon even attempt
to persuade you not to?

No, it was his choice to look there in the first place. Once bitten, twice shy.

Cheers, helen s

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"SRT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also possibly to cycle
the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and preferably brand new.

The bike will be used on the road.

TIA.

Thanks for all your input. I think I should elaborate on my situation
further. I live in Shetland and consequently do not have the opportunity to
try out the bikes - there are no real bike shops up here.

Also the bike I will be looking for as well as being used for commuting
would be used as a way of maintaining my fitness. Are these compatible?

I would appreciate further recommendations of where to buy from and your
recommendations on specific models to look for.

Regards, SRT

On Wed, 19 May 2004 09:55:58 +0100, Richard <[email hidden]>
wrote (more or less):
....

Quoted message said:

As others have said, you can buy a fair starter bike for £200 or so.
Make sure it has:

- aluminium wheel rims, not steel (which have all the braking efficiency
of a wet paper bag)
- mudguards, for that pleasantly dry riding experience.
- unless you're riding someplace hilly like Sheffield, huge numbers of
gears are not required.

But do check for what the /lowest/ gear setting is.

My experience of bike-shop folk is that they are dismissive of the
new-to-cycling adult commuter.

(Edinburgh Bike Co-op were particularly dismissive saying "yes the
lowest set are called the granny gears and you never use them"

Which was a) wrong b) incredibly condescending

It was thro' a patch where they were refusing to replace faulty parts
under warranty on a like-for-like basis, so I was prone to being
irritated with them anyway, but even so...

Mind you, I just went there for the first time in about 8 years (I
generally use Biketrax nowadays) yesterday, so time must have healed
my wound.

Did you know that the shop staff there don't know about Martlet?

Quoted message said:

- smooth-tread tyres, not knobbly ones.

Of course, eventually the knobblies become /really/ smooth :-)

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

SRT said:

"SRT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also possibly to
cycle the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and preferably
brand new.

The bike will be used on the road.

TIA.

Thanks for all your input. I think I should elaborate on my situation
further. I live in Shetland and consequently do not have the
opportunity to try out the bikes - there are no real bike shops up
here.

No chance of braving the public transport system (shudder) or driving to a
shop on the mainland?

Quoted message said:

Also the bike I will be looking for as well as being used for
commuting would be used as a way of maintaining my fitness. Are
these compatible?

I'd say 20 miles 5 or 6 times a week would keep you pretty fit without any
extra riding. As for a bike to keep fit on, the way I see it is that 10
miles on my mountain bike is going to be harder work than if I went out and
bought a road bike for the same run, so I'd get fitter on a mountain bike.
As long as you can get comfy on the bike and enjoy riding it, it's suitable
for keeping fit on IMO. A mountain bike does have the advantage that you're
not restricted to the road, though lots of people reckon you can do milder
off road stuff on a road bike. I've never owned a road bike so I'm not going
to argue with them. I only took up cycling a month or two back, and I'm
certainly a lot fitter than I was before, lost a fair bit of weight, and I'm
not doing anything like the miles you'd be doing just on your commute.

SRT said:

Thanks for all your input. I think I should elaborate on my situation
further. I live in Shetland and consequently do not have the opportunity to
try out the bikes - there are no real bike shops up here.

Then I'd ideally wait until you're on the mainland before getting one.
They don't cost much on the ferry, and though the basic cost for you is
quite a bit, IMHO you'd be better off spending the money on a trip to
Edinburgh Bike Co-op's branch in Aberdeen and making sure you get a good
machine properly fitted for you than just taking a stab in the dark.

Quoted message said:

Also the bike I will be looking for as well as being used for commuting
would be used as a way of maintaining my fitness. Are these compatible?

Absolutely. In fact it's not so much "compatible" as "inevitable": you
will maintain fitness if you cycle about.

Quoted message said:

I would appreciate further recommendations of where to buy from and your
recommendations on specific models to look for.

As suggested above, Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op, which has a branch in
Aberdeen. They'll do mail order too if it really isn't feasible to get
there in person, and they do the Ridgeback I previously mentioned (Speed
'04) as well as various other Sensible But Good choices. They also have
a good range of accessories like lights, pumps, etc. and, very
importantly, they Have Clues and will be likely to sell you what's right
for you.
http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

But do check for what the /lowest/ gear setting is.

My experience of bike-shop folk is that they are dismissive of the
new-to-cycling adult commuter.

My thoughts exactly. Norfolk isn't the hiiliest county in England, but
*particularly* when I first got back on the bike I was very pleased I had a
granny ring & 27 gears...

The fit may well not use a granny ring or lots of gears, but it's easily
forgotten that when first getting on or back on a bike in an unfit state, it
can be of benefit to have lots of gears as provided by a granny ring &
nine-speed block.

Cheers, helen s

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dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

The fit may well not use a granny ring or lots of gears, but it's easily
forgotten that when first getting on or back on a bike in an unfit state, it
can be of benefit to have lots of gears as provided by a granny ring &
nine-speed block.

Though OTOH having 27 gears where you can get away with 3 (if they're
the right ones, you really can) is just something that a lot of people
find confusing. And having a gear system where high pressure changes
have a habit of throwing the chain, especially if you're not used to
front derailleurs and/or you don't have the highest spec bike on the
planet, is not great at all.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Gawnsoft said:

(Edinburgh Bike Co-op were particularly dismissive saying "yes the
lowest set are called the granny gears and you never use them"

Which was a) wrong b) incredibly condescending

It was thro' a patch where they were refusing to replace faulty parts
under warranty on a like-for-like basis, so I was prone to being
irritated with them anyway, but even so...

Mind you, I just went there for the first time in about 8 years (I
generally use Biketrax nowadays) yesterday, so time must have healed
my wound.

Did you know that the shop staff there don't know about Martlet?

It strikes me you're rather tarring everyone that works for EBC with the
same brush. Did you ask /all/ of them about Eric the Half a Brain, did
they /all/ say you never use grannies?

I've had Saturday Staff syndrome at EBC before now, but if you're in
when it's not busy and find someone who knows about your particular
style of cycling then they are IME very good. Don't forget they sell a
wide range of bikes, and if you get the laddish lad who's into bikes for
downhill MTB then he wouldn't have any use for grannies, wouldn't be
affected by EtHaB, or (as I found out) know a damn thing about panniers.
But that's not everyone there.
And further leaping to their defence, I've had exemplary customer
service there. When my 7 year old tourer cracked its frame they
replaced it FoC despite it being 5 years out of warranty, and also
transferred all the fits FoC /and/ gave me a new headset FoC while they
were at it.

EBC used to be my local bike shop when I stayed in Marchmont, but I've
kept going back for various things because they earned more custom
through good service. Nobody manages 100% though, and if you can find
any largeish sales organisation that doesn't include at least one
vaguely clueless makeweight I'd be fairly surprised.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article <[email hidden]>,

Peter Clinch said:

find confusing. And having a gear system where high pressure changes
have a habit of throwing the chain, especially if you're not used to
front derailleurs and/or you don't have the highest spec bike on the
planet, is not great at all.

I don't know about the precise nuances of the Shimano range, but the
difference between cheapy-stuff on my cheap bike and XT on my not-cheap
bike is not major at the back, but night-and-day at the front. I think
the reason why some bikes use XT at the back and LX at the front is that
the only difference is claimed to be weight, but an XT front mech was
the most noticable difference in the drive line between 200-quid bike
and 2000-quid bike.

ian

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

SRT said:

"SRT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am looking to take up cycling for recreation and also possibly to
cycle the ten miles to work everyday.

Does anyone have any advice on the type of bike to buy?

I would like it to be as inexpensive as possible and preferably
brand new.

The bike will be used on the road.

Thanks for all your input. I think I should elaborate on my
situation
further. I live in Shetland and consequently do not have the
opportunity to try out the bikes - there are no real bike shops up
here.

No chance of braving the public transport system (shudder) or driving
to a shop on the mainland?

That's Shetland as in Shetland. If he says there's no cycle shop that
means there's no cycle shops on the mainland. And it's a long, long,
expensive way to Aberdeen.

Seriously, if you're looking for a bike for Shetland, where you'll be
dealing with much stronger headwinds than most of us face on a regular
basis, you want very low gearing, so a light rigid mountain bike with
slick tyres sounds like the right choice.

Probably the best people to talk to are the Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op (who
also have a shop in Aberdeen -
<URL:http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/resource/directions.html#aberdeenmap>

Their own-brand bikes are among the best low-cost bikes available, and
their staff tend to be helpful and knowlegable. Their Cuillin 2HT
(£189.95) or Cuillin 3HT (£229.95) would both suit, although both come
with suspension forms which you don't need for on the road cycling, and
knobbly tyres which you'll want to change for slicks. Alternatively,
their Revolution Courier has the rigid forks and slick tyres but
doesn't have ultra-low gearing. What I would do is phone them up and
ask them what they'd charge you for building up a Cuillin with a rigid
fork and slick tyres. It's really important, especially when you're so
far from the shop, to get the sizing right, so I would phone the shop
rather than buying over the internet and get their advice on the right
size to get.

All the bikes I've mentioned are flat barred bikes, which people new to
cycling tend to prefer. But battling into a head wind is easier with
drop bars. Again EBC do one which is good value for money, the
Revolution Country at £399. You get a rack at that price which may be
useful, but the gearing isn't nearly as low as the Cuillin models.

The final thing to think about for Shetland conditions is a recumbent.
This is a fairly unconventional bicycle on which you sit much lower and
have quite a lot less wind resistence. Unfortunately these machines are
all expensive, and you should try before you buy because they don't
necessarily suit everyone. The shop in Scotland for recumbents is
Kinetics in Glasgow, <URL:http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/>

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;; wreaking a horrific vengeance upon the living
;; anonymous

If you are determined to buy a really cheap new bike, be absolutel
certain to avoid disc brakes and suspension (particulraly rea
suspension) which will do nothing other than add weight and make cyclin
harder as well as failing in early course. However you deserve bette
than that. Just take out a mental loan against the money you will sav
by cycle commuting and not needing to go to a gym to get fit

When advertising second hand bikes people seem to ascribe value by th
number of gears. Even the cheapest bike can have 24 gears. What shoul
be of interest to you is overall weight and quality of components. eg E
bike co op courier fitted with mudguards would be a good bet. It onl
has eight gears but I presume you are not too hilly and by only havin
one chainring by the pedals weight and maintainance are reduced

Personally, for a windy place like Shetland, i would get a bike wit
drop handle bars, but if you are new to cycling you may prefer a mor
upright style

When you do get your new bike do make sure you keep up with basi
maintainance, checking your brakes regularly, keeping your tyre
inflated to the right pressure, and putting a bit of lubricant on th
chain. doing these simple tasks will ensure you enjoy your cycling fa
more. Good luck and enjoy it

-

oh

and there is a bike buying guide here

http://www.cyclingscotland.org

-