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Advice to get my average up??

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Road Cycling
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10 October 2005
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Hell and High Water
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  1. I ride 10-15 miles four or five days a week, then a longer (~30 miles)
    ride on the weekends.

    I've been doing this now for a couple months.

    I have an older Bianchi, but it's OK, and in great shape.

    I've made the following replacements:

    1. Clipless pedals
    2. Longer quill stem
    3. New bottom bracket and crankset
    4. Mich Carbon tires

    My average speed is between 15 and 16 MPH. Seems to be there no matter
    what I do.

    I've tried spinning at a faster cadence, but not much change.

    BTW, every time I look at the speedometer, it seems like I'm travelling
    about 17-21 MPH, but with intersections, double-wide pedestrians, etc.,
    my average stays about where it is.

    I do feel that I'm getting into much better shape. I used to feel DEAD
    TIRED after a ride, but now I can do the 30 miles and feel pretty good.

    Any suggestions to get my average speed up?

    THANKS!

    -Bianchi Bob

  2. First, it seems to me that you are doing OK as it is.
    With the amount that you are riding you have begun to develop a good
    base and the main advise I'd give for you to start doing some interval
    work at speeds higher than you now ride. Three or four 2 minute
    intervals in the middle of your ride will begin to get you used to
    higher speeds.

  3. Intervals seconded. I do the "natural" kind as I'm in Tennesse with
    frequent rolling hills. Hills, unless they're obscenely long, get
    attacked like Sigourny Weaver on an alien--totally to the max. On flats
    I concentrate on spinning at something like 80% of my max, and
    downhills are for relaxation and the crocheting of baby booties.

    You're not that slow btw, and I seriously doubt equipment is holding
    you back. Your case sounds typical. I've been there. I'll be as fast in
    the beginning of the season as during the end--but the difference will
    be that the same 30 mile ride will be effortless instead of a killer
    due to slow twitch muscle development.

    Declare holy war on some hills or even hit the gym for some squats and
    such. Sounds like you're in good shape, just need some power.

  4. Bianchi Bob said:

    I ride 10-15 miles four or five days a week, then a longer (~30 miles) ride on the weekends.

    Quoted message said:

    My average speed is between 15 and 16 MPH. Seems to be there no matter what I do.

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, every time I look at the speedometer, it seems like I'm travelling about 17-21 MPH, but with intersections, double-wide pedestrians, etc., my average stays about where it is.

    Those "speedometers" are great for keeping track of distance, and
    getting an idea of how fast you're going. But the "average speed"
    feature is the work of the Devil! Everybody seems to get obsessed with
    higher average speeds.

    If you're not into racing (I think only about 1% of cyclists race), why
    worry about it? Do you want cycling to be something enjoyable, or some
    form of torture where you subject yourself to interval sessions and
    such?

    If you ride regularly at a pace where your breathing and heart rate
    become elevated, your fitness level will gradually increase.

    If you're overweight, losing a few pounds will allow you to climb
    faster, and will improve your overall health.

    You can increase your "average speed" by blasting through stop signs
    and red lights, and by taking descents as fast as you dare. But none of
    that relates to better fitness. Riding in a paceline will increase your
    speed by a couple of mph, but again, it doesn't really correlate to
    increased fitness.

    My advice is to just ride your bike regularly at a pace that gets your
    heart pumping, but not so fast that you get exhausted. Forget all the
    BS you read in Bicycling magazine, and just concentrate on enjoying
    every ride.

    Art Harris

  5. Ditto intervals.

    I'll add, the body adapts very quickly to a pattern of exercise.

    There's a great article about this here:
    http://www.totalkaizen.com/articles/chunky.html
    (not implying you're chunky - the article just seemed relevant)

    You might add some weight training to the mix but intervals on the bike
    target the specific muscles you're using so that's probably the cycle
    equivalent of "weight training"...putting those muscles under more load.

    Chris

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    If you're not into racing (I think only about 1% of cyclists race), why
    worry about it? Do you want cycling to be something enjoyable, or some
    form of torture where you subject yourself to interval sessions and
    such?

    mmmm...torture.....

    ;-)

    Nah, I just want to see some tangible evidence that I'm getting better.

    Quoted message said:

    If you ride regularly at a pace where your breathing and heart rate
    become elevated, your fitness level will gradually increase.

    Like I said, I AM less exhausted at the end of a ride. I guess that's
    fairly tangible!

    Quoted message said:


    If you're overweight, losing a few pounds will allow you to climb
    faster, and will improve your overall health.

    6' 5" ~180 lbs.

    Not much more to lose!

    Quoted message said:

    My advice is to just ride your bike regularly at a pace that gets your
    heart pumping, but not so fast that you get exhausted. Forget all the
    BS you read in Bicycling magazine, and just concentrate on enjoying
    every ride.

    I AM! Every time I ride, it's fantastic! I've truly fallen in love
    with the bike!

    Thanks for the excellent advice! I will continue to cherish my rides,
    and try to watch the 'avg speed' indicator a bit less.

    -Bob

  7. Quoted message said:

    You might add some weight training to the mix but intervals on the bike
    target the specific muscles you're using so that's probably the cycle
    equivalent of "weight training"...putting those muscles under more load.

    How about this: Don't sit in the saddle when riding, stand up and shift
    into the highest gear. The effect of this was remarkable for me, it's like
    'orbital stair-master machine' exercise, without the boredom, and it
    increases your rate of workout per mile dramatically.

    rms

  8. Hell and High Water said:


    I AM! Every time I ride, it's fantastic! I've truly fallen in love
    with the bike!

    Thanks for the excellent advice! I will continue to cherish my rides,
    and try to watch the 'avg speed' indicator a bit less.

    -Bob

    I think there are some 'tricks' that you can use. Most of these won't work
    for very experienced riders, but they've worked for me.

    1. find a longish straightish road with a slight grade - a false flat. Do
    intervals on this road, on both the uphill part and the downhill part. When
    you do the downhill part, you should already be slightly breathless. Push
    your speed so that you're seeing >24mph. IOW, if you can do 21mph on the
    flat really pushing, here you're getting 3mph faster. If the grade is a bit
    too much, this won't work as well - it should almost look flat. For me this
    gets me used to riding at a faster speed than I'm used to and I can keep it
    up longer, because you can grab nanoseconds of recovery it being a very
    slight downhill (at least that's my theory). Don't get me wrong, it
    shouldn't be easy, in fact it should feel harder than your hardest flat
    interval in some respects. Use the 'uphill' portion to tire you and get you
    breathing hard before you start the downhill portion. Do at least 5 - 8
    repeats.

    2. motorpacing. Same kind of thing. Find somewhere that you can have a
    trusted and skilled partner drive in front of you so that you are riding
    pretty hard to catch up to him, and using the lack of wind resistance,
    really get your speed up. This takes some practice and skill on both parts,
    but it can work - just be very careful and don't be tempted to ride too
    close - 10-12 feet back is plenty. When you get your speed up, at a
    pre-designated location, you pull out from around him and try to keep up
    that new speed as long as you can. He should of course drop off and let you
    by - be very careful doing this!

    3. parkinglot Crits. I've found that I -really- give myself a workout by
    finding a large empty parking lot that has some hills and a lot of tight
    turns. Go out and ride a dozen or so laps pretending like you're in a real
    criterion. Jump on the turns, stand to pedal, pick a "finish line" and go
    for the sprint win on each lap. This teaches you like no other method how
    to get tight fast turns, how to keep your speed up right after slowing for
    the turn, how to find a good 'line', how to jump and pedal and so on. Since
    the layout of the course dictates your tactics, you'll really give yourself
    a good workout. I get more 'toasted' doing one of these than a hard fast
    ride. The point is it's hard to 'tell yourself' ride harder. But a parking
    lot crit, I find, -makes- you ride hard because of the lay-out. These can
    be so tough I only do them once a week.

    4. wear a somewhat bulky jacket. Go ride your regular course. Of course the
    jacket will catch the wind, and it will tend to slow you down. Don't let
    it. Try to forget you're wearing it. Now I don't mean you need to heat
    stress yourself. A light jacket that's a little too big for you that
    catches the wind is just as good. After about two weeks riding with the
    jacket on your normal route you'll be doing the same speed you normally do.
    Rest a day or do a couple day recovery rides, then take off the jacket and
    do your course. I almost guarantee that in two weeks you'll add a mile or
    two per hour to your average speed. Problem is, heh, is this is a somewhat
    temporary effect - you'll be fast as [censored] for a few rides. If you go back
    to riding your regular course in your regular cycling gear, in a couple
    weeks, usually, you'll be back at your old speed - if you're not careful.

    5. ride with a faster partner. This is one of the best methods, but I'm
    putting it near the end of the list because most people realize this.
    Obviously if you can find a group to ride with, that's even better. Learn
    to draft. Use your partner to do 'jump sprints'. IOW, he drags you along
    and you jump out and sprint past you. He then jumps on your tail and drafts
    -you- and then jumps -you- and you draft for a while, then jump him again.
    Rinse, repeat. Be careful - find an experienced partner and work up to
    proper drafting methods. This is one of the more enjoyable tips, imo, but
    since it's hard to find a good drafting partner, chances will be rare.

    6. find a course where there's something that you can find to race, such as
    a transit bus. (Be careful!) Try to beat the bus from point A to point B.
    You don't have to be riding the same route, btw. You just have to 'barely
    lose' to the bus and then 'work' to win over time. This is pretty fun too,
    especially if you're not on the same route, but can see the bus here and
    there on the way to the finish line. Pick an easy, slow lumbering vehicle
    at first. Harder than it seems, since you're in traffic. Avoid taking
    chances to 'win' - you want to win on speed, not cutting traffic lights,
    obviously.

    7. string together intervals where you used to rest. If I'm doing a one
    mile interval and then turn off a side street to recover, after a couple
    weeks I'll try and eliminate that turn off as a 'rest' street. Same thing
    doing hills. Where you used to keep your speed up going to the top of the
    hill, instead pick a point just past the crest and pick a speed you want to
    reach as you pass that point. WHile it's pretty easy to sprint up my
    favorite hill at 14mph, it's -much- harder to do that -and- keep my speed
    up over the crest and hit 16mph 100 yds past the crest on the downhill, b/c
    you're really tired, but being a downhill, it's mentally easier, I think.

    8. find a hill that you can do ok. Alternate riding it various ways. Ride
    up it slalom some days. Other days ride up it keeping up your speed no
    matter what it takes - stand to climb, slalom a little, spin an easier
    gear. Try to set a speed that's just a little too vast, but do everything
    you can to reach that speed. Once you're pretty speedy, then apply trick
    #7, and string together the hill climb, keeping your speed up over the
    crest and getting up to a nice fast speed just past the crest, say 100
    yards - a telephone pole or something. Somedays ride the hill 'easy' -
    break it up.

    9. Find a course with rolling hills that's a bit of a challenge. Learn it
    for a couple weeks. Then go ride it but try to expend as little energy as
    possible. IOW, 'flatten it out'. When you ride the hills, slalom, stand,
    spin, do any and everything to make that ride feel like it takes -no-
    energy to ride. Because you're mentally and technically 'flattening it out'
    you'll end up some days with a faster average speed than usual because
    you'll have learned to 'parcel out' your energy better. (hope this makes
    sense - it's really -neat- when it works).

    10. Realize that your improvement come during -rest- not training. So after
    each ride, do a recovery drink (home made is fine). Get that 1:4 mix of
    protein and carbs in those muscles within 30-40 minutes post ride -
    immediately is best. Get plenty of sleep, consider taking an after noon nap
    on weekends or whatever your hardest day is. Always work in some
    excrutiatingly slow (HRM=108bpm) recovery ride. I can usually tell when I
    need one of these because my legs are starting to get a little sore when I
    tense the muscles.

    There are -lots- of other things you can try but I figured you'd like the
    'active training tricks' best.

    As you can see these are mostly 'mental' things, but they're ways that you
    can get that bike moving faster than you can by normal pedalling. Obviously
    don't do them all at the same time, and find the ones that work for you, be
    creative, find other similar ways. Above all be careful. Don't run into
    your motorpace car (actually a motorbike is better - I have a friend with a
    Vespa that I do this with!), don't strain something. You're mainly working
    on your lungs not your leg muscles.

    HTH.

    That's good for now. Bear in mind, these are things I've tried myself and
    for me they work. ymmv. ;-)

    jj

  9. Hell and High Water said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    If you're not into racing (I think only about 1% of cyclists race), why
    worry about it? Do you want cycling to be something enjoyable, or some
    form of torture where you subject yourself to interval sessions and
    such?

    mmmm...torture.....

    ;-)

    Good attitude. You'll be fine :-)

    In addition to the intervals--a recommendation with which I
    agree--build up your base mileage. Just ride more. Makes you
    stronger.

  10. jj wrote:
    :: On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:45:11 -0500, Hell and High Water
    :: <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ::
    :::
    ::: I AM! Every time I ride, it's fantastic! I've truly fallen in love
    ::: with the bike!
    :::
    :::
    ::: Thanks for the excellent advice! I will continue to cherish my
    ::: rides, and try to watch the 'avg speed' indicator a bit less.
    :::
    ::: -Bob
    ::
    :: I think there are some 'tricks' that you can use. Most of these
    :: won't work for very experienced riders, but they've worked for me.
    ::
    [...]
    ::
    :: 2. motorpacing. Same kind of thing. Find somewhere that you can have
    :: a trusted and skilled partner drive in front of you so that you are
    :: riding pretty hard to catch up to him, and using the lack of wind
    :: resistance, really get your speed up. This takes some practice and
    :: skill on both parts, but it can work - just be very careful and
    :: don't be tempted to ride too close - 10-12 feet back is plenty. When
    :: you get your speed up, at a pre-designated location, you pull out
    :: from around him and try to keep up that new speed as long as you
    :: can. He should of course drop off and let you by - be very careful
    :: doing this!

    Too dangerous for a nonracer, IMO.

    ::
    :: 3. parkinglot Crits. I've found that I -really- give myself a
    :: workout by finding a large empty parking lot that has some hills and
    :: a lot of tight turns. Go out and ride a dozen or so laps pretending
    :: like you're in a real criterion. Jump on the turns, stand to pedal,
    :: pick a "finish line" and go for the sprint win on each lap. This
    :: teaches you like no other method how to get tight fast turns, how to
    :: keep your speed up right after slowing for the turn, how to find a
    :: good 'line', how to jump and pedal and so on. Since the layout of
    :: the course dictates your tactics, you'll really give yourself a good
    :: workout. I get more 'toasted' doing one of these than a hard fast
    :: ride. The point is it's hard to 'tell yourself' ride harder. But a
    :: parking lot crit, I find, -makes- you ride hard because of the
    :: lay-out. These can be so tough I only do them once a week.
    ::

    Too dangerous for a nonracer, IMO.

    [...]

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Hell and High Water said:

    I've tried spinning at a faster cadence, but not much change.

    Assuming that's in the same gears as usual, it's /gotta/ be faster.
    Try harder! <sound of cracking whip> :-)

    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

  12. Being cold always increases my speed. If I'm cold enough I go faster to
    get warm.

  13. jj wrote:
    :: On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:45:11 -0500, Hell and High Water
    :: <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ::
    :::
    ::: I AM! Every time I ride, it's fantastic! I've truly fallen in love
    ::: with the bike!
    :::
    :::
    ::: Thanks for the excellent advice! I will continue to cherish my
    ::: rides, and try to watch the 'avg speed' indicator a bit less.
    :::
    ::: -Bob
    ::
    :: I think there are some 'tricks' that you can use. Most of these
    :: won't work for very experienced riders, but they've worked for me.
    ::
    [...]
    ::
    :: 2. motorpacing. Same kind of thing. Find somewhere that you can have
    :: a trusted and skilled partner drive in front of you so that you are
    :: riding pretty hard to catch up to him, and using the lack of wind
    :: resistance, really get your speed up. This takes some practice and
    :: skill on both parts, but it can work - just be very careful and
    :: don't be tempted to ride too close - 10-12 feet back is plenty. When
    :: you get your speed up, at a pre-designated location, you pull out
    :: from around him and try to keep up that new speed as long as you
    :: can. He should of course drop off and let you by - be very careful
    :: doing this!

    Too dangerous for a nonracer, IMO.

    ::
    :: 3. parkinglot Crits. I've found that I -really- give myself a
    :: workout by finding a large empty parking lot that has some hills and
    :: a lot of tight turns. Go out and ride a dozen or so laps pretending
    :: like you're in a real criterion. Jump on the turns, stand to pedal,
    :: pick a "finish line" and go for the sprint win on each lap. This
    :: teaches you like no other method how to get tight fast turns, how to
    :: keep your speed up right after slowing for the turn, how to find a
    :: good 'line', how to jump and pedal and so on. Since the layout of
    :: the course dictates your tactics, you'll really give yourself a good
    :: workout. I get more 'toasted' doing one of these than a hard fast
    :: ride. The point is it's hard to 'tell yourself' ride harder. But a
    :: parking lot crit, I find, -makes- you ride hard because of the
    :: lay-out. These can be so tough I only do them once a week.
    ::

    Too dangerous for a nonracer, IMO.

    [...]

  14. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Hell and High Water said:

    I ride 10-15 miles four or five days a week, then a longer (~30 miles)
    ride on the weekends.

    Any suggestions to get my average speed up?

    _ Draft somebody, riding with people just a little bit faster
    than you is a really good way to get faster. In particular it's
    good for breaking out of a rut, in that you have to go fast
    when they go fast, not necessarily when you go fast. A lot
    of getting from 15 or 16 mph to 20 mph is keeping the speed
    constant over short hills and through corners.

    _ Booker C. Bense

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  15. Neil Brooks said:
    Hell and High Water said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    If you're not into racing (I think only about 1% of cyclists race), why
    worry about it? Do you want cycling to be something enjoyable, or some
    form of torture where you subject yourself to interval sessions and
    such?

    mmmm...torture.....

    ;-)

    Good attitude. You'll be fine :-)

    In addition to the intervals--a recommendation with which I
    agree--build up your base mileage. Just ride more. Makes you
    stronger.

    Agreed. Ride 15 - 20 miles four/five days a week, then ~40 on the
    weekends. Although, this might be a problem if you really don't have
    time to do that, but that's inherent motivation to go faster! 🙂

    \\paul
    --
    Paul M. Hobson
    Georgia Institute of Technology
    ..:change the words to numbers
    if you want to reply to me:.

  16. "Hell and High Water" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    My average speed is between 15 and 16 MPH. Seems to be there no matter
    what I do.

    Put an extra magnet on your wheel, average reading will go way up. That
    was some advice that was given to me at one time, before I quit worrying
    about speed.

  17. On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:25:18 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    jj wrote:
    :: On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:45:11 -0500, Hell and High Water
    :: <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ::
    :::
    ::: I AM! Every time I ride, it's fantastic! I've truly fallen in love
    ::: with the bike!
    :::
    :::
    ::: Thanks for the excellent advice! I will continue to cherish my
    ::: rides, and try to watch the 'avg speed' indicator a bit less.
    :::
    ::: -Bob
    ::
    :: I think there are some 'tricks' that you can use. Most of these
    :: won't work for very experienced riders, but they've worked for me.
    ::
    [...]
    ::
    :: 2. motorpacing. Same kind of thing. Find somewhere that you can have

    Quoted message said:

    Too dangerous for a nonracer, IMO.

    Perhaps. Tell me you've never done an opportunistic draft on a big truck,
    though. If you do it with a small motor bike it's pretty safe. But, dude,
    if -I- can do it, and I'm a big old klutz, then surely younger more agile
    guys can do it. Just gotta keep well back from the car. Ten to fifteen feet
    you still get the draft using a van or a taller car.

    Quoted message said:

    ::
    :: 3. parkinglot Crits. I've found that I -really- give myself a
    :: workout by finding a large empty parking lot that has some hills and
    :: a lot of tight turns. Go out and ride a dozen or so laps pretending
    :: like you're in a real criterion. Jump on the turns, stand to pedal,
    :: pick a "finish line" and go for the sprint win on each lap. This
    :: teaches you like no other method how to get tight fast turns, how to
    :: keep your speed up right after slowing for the turn, how to find a
    :: good 'line', how to jump and pedal and so on. Since the layout of
    :: the course dictates your tactics, you'll really give yourself a good
    :: workout. I get more 'toasted' doing one of these than a hard fast
    :: ride. The point is it's hard to 'tell yourself' ride harder. But a
    :: parking lot crit, I find, -makes- you ride hard because of the
    :: lay-out. These can be so tough I only do them once a week.
    ::

    Too dangerous for a nonracer, IMO.

    What the....? Are you serious? As long as there are no cars trying to pull
    out (I do mine on Sunday) and the surface is good (no loose stuff) and dry,
    it's very safe. In fact my top speed is usually only about 13-14mph because
    of the need to slow to corner and then get back up to speed on the bits
    that go uphill. Where else are you going to learn to corner at speed than
    in a freakin' parking lot?

    Bet if you tried it you'd like it. Don't have to go fast at all; just have
    to ride smart.

    But whatever. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it, hom. ;-)

    jj

  18. jj said:

    In fact my top speed is usually only about 13-14mph because
    of the need to slow to corner and then get back up to speed on the bits
    that go uphill. Where else are you going to learn to corner at speed than
    in a freakin' parking lot?


    JJ, I have no problem with you riding around parking lots, but if your
    top speed is 14 mph I question if you are learning to "corner at speed"

  19. Hell and High Water said:

    I ride 10-15 miles four or five days a week, then a longer (~30 miles)
    ride on the weekends.

    I've been doing this now for a couple months.

    Quoted message said:

    Any suggestions to get my average speed up?

    1) Lose weight (apologies if you're anorexic).
    2) Find a group of faster riders to attempt to ride with, attempt riding
    with them regularly, keep at it until you can.

  20. gds said:


    jj said:

    In fact my top speed is usually only about 13-14mph because
    of the need to slow to corner and then get back up to speed on the bits
    that go uphill. Where else are you going to learn to corner at speed than
    in a freakin' parking lot?


    JJ, I have no problem with you riding around parking lots, but if your
    top speed is 14 mph I question if you are learning to "corner at speed"

    Er, should have said average speed; my bad. ;-)

    Obviously I'm going into the corners fairly fast, but you just can't get up
    to a very fast speed when you're zig-zagging around the parking islands;
    the more islands the better for this purpose. It's definitely several mph
    slower than my top or average speed on the open roads.

    There's about about 20 sharp corners and switchback corners in the place I
    use and one lap is about 1.4miles. It's quite challenging for me. Your task
    would be to find one that is challenging to you and if you think about it
    the slower it makes you go, the better, as far as jumping out of the saddle
    and accelerating and decelerating. Right? ;-p

    jj

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