advice on negotiating this junction

Adam Lea said:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=53.491563,-2.286358&spn=0.004347,0.005708&t=k&om=1

I am approaching the roundabout from the west (RHS of the map)

Do you mean west, or the RHS of the map which is from the east?

"Martin Dann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Adam Lea said:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=53.491563,-2.286358&spn=0.004347,0.005708&t=k&om=1

I am approaching the roundabout from the west (RHS of the map)

Do you mean west, or the RHS of the map which is from the east?

Sorry I meant from the east, heading west, so yes from the RHS of the map.

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am approaching the roundabout from the west (RHS of the map)

Oops, meant from the east.

Adam Lea said:

On my recent visit to Salford I had a go at cycling from Salford Crescent
station to my parents house via the A6 which is one of the main arterial
routes between Salford and Manchester and is a dual carriage way with a bus
lane (which cycles are permitted to use). It is a decent enough route apart
from this one junction which I had a little difficulty with. Here is an
aerial view:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=53.491563,-2.286358&spn=0.004347,0.005708&t=k&om=1

I am approaching the roundabout from the west (RHS of the map) along the
slip road and I want to go straight across along the other slip road then
turn off left just before the sliproad joins the dual carriageway. The
problem is that exiting the roundabout there is a guarded lane from left
which comes in and forms another lane to the left of me and so I am suddenly
in the right hand lane when I want to peel off left. Ideally I want to get
back in the bus lane on the left then peel off but there is traffic coming
up from behind (accelerating off the roundabout) and traffic coming from the
left along the new lane. What is the safest way to get through this
junction? I ended up cycling down the white line with traffic passing me on
both sides which didn't seem the correct way to do it somehow.

Wow, I can see a stealth bus de-cloaking:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&om=1&z=19&ll=53.492033,-2.289139&spn=0.00117,0.002511&t=k

Other than that, can't help you other than to stick your left arm out
and stare down the cars on the left to get them to allow you to filter
in front of them. Not very helpful, but it might work.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Some people have one of those days. I have one of those lives.

Don Whybrow said:

Wow, I can see a stealth bus de-cloaking:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&om=1&z=19&ll=53.492033,-2.289139&spn=0.00117,0.002511&t=k

That's because the driver has just past the bus stop, to let the people
waiting there that he has deliberately missed them.

Quoted message said:

Other than that, can't help you other than to stick your left arm out
and stare down the cars on the left to get them to allow you to filter
in front of them. Not very helpful, but it might work.

I have noticed on similar junctions, most car drivers are happy to let
you filter like this, one I use occasionally many drivers expect it.

The other option seems to be to stop where the nasty road joins the
roundabout, wait for a suitable gap, and cross both lanes in one go.

Martin.

Adam Lea wrote on 10/04/2007 23:09 +0100:

Quoted message said:

On my recent visit to Salford I had a go at cycling from Salford
Crescent station to my parents house via the A6 which is one of the
main arterial routes between Salford and Manchester and is a dual
carriage way with a bus lane (which cycles are permitted to use). It
is a decent enough route apart from this one junction which I had a
little difficulty with. Here is an aerial view:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=53.491563,-2.286358&spn=0.004347,0.005708&t=k&om=1

I am approaching the roundabout from the west (RHS of the map) along
the slip road and I want to go straight across along the other slip
road then turn off left just before the sliproad joins the dual
carriageway. The problem is that exiting the roundabout there is a
guarded lane from left which comes in and forms another lane to the
left of me and so I am suddenly in the right hand lane when I want to
peel off left. Ideally I want to get back in the bus lane on the left
then peel off but there is traffic coming up from behind
(accelerating off the roundabout) and traffic coming from the left
along the new lane. What is the safest way to get through this
junction? I ended up cycling down the white line with traffic passing
me on both sides which didn't seem the correct way to do it somehow.

The alternative route to bypass this junction entirely involves going
through the heart of Langworthy and I think I would rather take my
chance with the traffic than with the local chavs.

I would be inclined to get over as early as possible by riding up to the
white dividing line as soon as I can then moving slowly and deliberately
left with your arm out if possible or turning and looking back at the
traffic on the left to make it clear that you are looking to move
across. Done assertively I suspect you will quickly find a gap or a
vehicle to give way. If you are not comfortable with doing that the
other option is to wait just before the two lanes join from the south
until there is sufficient gap in both lanes to cross to the inside where
you are ready and in position for your turn.

Good luck

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

If you don't want to stop and wait for a gap before exiting the roundabout,
cycle fast in second lane, look behind in an exaggerated fashion to make it
obvious to drivers that you are looking for gap. Someone will then slow
down for you. Then signal boldly and change to the inside lane.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cycle fast in second lane,

This was difficult when I tried it as the road is uphill virtually all the
way from Salford Crescent to the Height (about 100ft in two miles) and due
to the exposure is often compounded with a stiff headwind. I was quite hot
and sweaty when I eventually reached my destination, despite the short
distance.

Tony Raven said:

I would be inclined to get over as early as possible by riding up to
the white dividing line as soon as I can then moving slowly and
deliberately left with your arm out if possible or turning and
looking back at the traffic on the left to make it clear that you are
looking to move across. Done assertively I suspect you will quickly
find a gap or a vehicle to give way. If you are not comfortable with
doing that the other option is to wait just before the two lanes join
from the south until there is sufficient gap in both lanes to cross
to the inside where you are ready and in position for your turn.

I'd be very wary of stopping on a roundabout, it would just feel very wrong
to me. Theres plenty of time to move into the LH lane after leaving the
roundabout. The trick is to keep control of the lane your in while making it
obvious that you want to move into the next lane. You dont want to end up on
the dividing line with people overtaking you on both sides at once.

Its essential to be able to look behind, signal and keep pedaling at the
same time, if your not sure you can, practice somewhere quiet.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
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Adam Lea said:

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cycle fast in second lane,

This was difficult when I tried it as the road is uphill virtually
all the way from Salford Crescent to the Height (about 100ft in two
miles) and due to the exposure is often compounded with a stiff
headwind. I was quite hot and sweaty when I eventually reached my
destination, despite the short distance.

A few tens of yards of fast cycling will be all that's needed if you're
lucky. But I can understand the difficulty if it's uphill. Though not
ideal, it looks like it would be safely possible to stop and wait at the
exit of the roundabout.

~PB

Adam Lea of [email hidden] typed:

Quoted message said:

On my recent visit to Salford I had a go at cycling from Salford Crescent
station to my parents house via the A6 which is one of the main arterial
routes between Salford and Manchester and is a dual carriage way with a
bus lane (which cycles are permitted to use). It is a decent enough route
apart from this one junction which I had a little difficulty with. Here
is an aerial view:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=53.491563,-2.286358&spn=0.004347,0.005708&t=k&om=1

Quoted message said:

The alternative route to bypass this junction entirely involves going
through the heart of Langworthy and I think I would rather take my chance
with the traffic than with the local chavs.

Looks to me like the route is fairly straightforward, start moving left well
before the staggered white lines. and just after passing the first exit,
keeping as left as possible whilst making hand signals and body language, as
well as rearward glances, showing you intend moving left again across the
left-most lane.

Doesn't look like there's meant to be a proper vehicle exit where you're
intending to go so you'll almost always be working against the 'usual' or
planned traffic flow, which is often a bad thing to do.

--
Paul - [censored] (mobile)

Adam Lea said:

On my recent visit to Salford I had a go at cycling from Salford Crescent
station to my parents house via the A6 which is one of the main arterial
routes between Salford and Manchester and is a dual carriage way with a
bus lane (which cycles are permitted to use). It is a decent enough route
apart from this one junction which I had a little difficulty with. Here is
an aerial view:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=53.491563,-2.286358&spn=0.00
4347,0.005708&t=k&om=1

I am approaching the roundabout from the west (RHS of the map) along the
slip road and I want to go straight across along the other slip road then
turn off left just before the sliproad joins the dual carriageway. The
problem is that exiting the roundabout there is a guarded lane from left
which comes in and forms another lane to the left of me and so I am
suddenly in the right hand lane when I want to peel off left. Ideally I
want to get back in the bus lane on the left then peel off but there is
traffic coming up from behind (accelerating off the roundabout) and
traffic coming from the left along the new lane. What is the safest way to
get through this junction? I ended up cycling down the white line with
traffic passing me on both sides which didn't seem the correct way to do
it somehow.

The alternative route to bypass this junction entirely involves going
through the heart of Langworthy and I think I would rather take my chance
with the traffic than with the local chavs.

Thanks

Adam

as others have said the only thing you can do is keep left as you can
and make your actions and intentions clear.

or as its a bit of pig of roundabout. take the footpath, to the north
road, and cross over and back on to the bus lane, which looks possible.

or perhaps turn left onto the north bound and then a U turn to get back
to the bus lane. where hopefully the traffic is slower?

roger

Quoted message said:

The alternative route to bypass this junction entirely involves going
through the heart of Langworthy and I think I would rather take my chance
with the traffic than with the local chavs.

I think the likelihood of serious injury or death would be much
greater at the hands of motorists than the salford lads.
You might do well not to wear all your rapha gear and leave the best
bike at home.
If they do get you in a corner just give them your stuff and run away.
This is really unlikely to happen if you look like a fairly normal,
confident, fit bloke and smile at people.
What do the bobbies on here think of the relative risks of a highway
robbery and a crash?
TerryJ

TerryJ wrote on 11/04/2007 11:28 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The alternative route to bypass this junction entirely involves going
through the heart of Langworthy and I think I would rather take my chance
with the traffic than with the local chavs.

I think the likelihood of serious injury or death would be much
greater at the hands of motorists than the salford lads.
You might do well not to wear all your rapha gear and leave the best
bike at home.
If they do get you in a corner just give them your stuff and run away.
This is really unlikely to happen if you look like a fairly normal,
confident, fit bloke and smile at people.
What do the bobbies on here think of the relative risks of a highway
robbery and a crash?

There are far more head injuries due to assaults than from cycle accidents

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Adam Lea said:

On my recent visit to Salford I had a go at cycling from Salford Crescent
station to my parents house via the A6 which is one of the main arterial
routes between Salford and Manchester and is a dual carriage way with a bus
lane (which cycles are permitted to use). It is a decent enough route apart
from this one junction which I had a little difficulty with. Here is an
aerial view:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=53.491563,-2.286358&spn...

I am approaching the roundabout from the west (RHS of the map) along the
slip road and I want to go straight across along the other slip road then
turn off left just before the sliproad joins the dual carriageway. <snip>
The alternative route to bypass this junction entirely involves going
through the heart of Langworthy and I think I would rather take my chance
with the traffic than with the local chavs.

Thanks

Adam

You should be able to clear this junction. Speed, clear signals, and
acting firmly and decisvely will get you around. 99.9% of car drivers
will give way without problem, if you are decisive and clear in what
you intend to do.

That said, if you're really uncomfortable, could you go down Hankinson
Way, and loop clockwise around the car park/Rossall Way, and back up
the other slip road? Or is that the dodgy area you're trying to
avoid?

Regards,

bookieb

"bookieb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You should be able to clear this junction. Speed, clear signals, and
acting firmly and decisvely will get you around. 99.9% of car drivers
will give way without problem, if you are decisive and clear in what
you intend to do.

That said, if you're really uncomfortable, could you go down Hankinson
Way, and loop clockwise around the car park/Rossall Way, and back up
the other slip road? Or is that the dodgy area you're trying to
avoid?

I could do that, but I would rather learn how to negotiate the junction
safely so I am prepared for similar junctions in the future.

Similarily I would like to be able to cycle from London Euston to Victoria
station without missing Monmouth Street and ending up having to go through
Piccadilly Circus. I will get the hang of it one day.

I shall have another practice in a fortnight.

Quoted message said:

There are far more head injuries due to assaults than from cycle accidents

How many people have you met that have been attacked by pedestrians
while riding a bike?
And how many hit by a car?

TerryJ

"TerryJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are far more head injuries due to assaults than from cycle
accidents

How many people have you met that have been attacked by pedestrians
while riding a bike?
And how many hit by a car?

TerryJ

What I would be more interested in is in an average year how many cyclists
have been injured through assault whilst cycling through inner city Salford
and how many have been injured through a collision with a motor vehicle in
the same area. That would be a more accurate way of establishing the
relative risks.

Quoted message said:

What I would be more interested in is in an average year how many cyclists
have been injured through assault whilst cycling through inner city Salford
and how many have been injured through a collision with a motor vehicle in
the same area. That would be a more accurate way of establishing the
relative risks.

True , but I believe that it would show the traffic to be the greater
risk if the figures were big enough to tell anything, and that
roundabout does look a bit scary for a regular route.
It is not nice to be chased on foot through town by a gang, though ,
as I experienced more than once in a bad area of london many years
ago.

TerryJ