Advice on budget tourer

Texy said:

Hi folks, I am looking to purchase a road bike, suitable for weekend
excursions, including camping overnight. I guess I,d be looking
round trips of around the 100mile distance. So I guess a touring
bike would be better than my MTB.

Good plan! I've no idea what Raleigh bikes are like nowadays. The
last one I had was a Grifter Mk2 ;o)

You might like to consider a Dawes Horizon which should be a good bike
with reasonable equipment at that price point. Spa Cycles seem to be
doing a good offer on them at 360 quid.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p437

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck

On 19/08/2006 17:50, Texy said,

Quoted message said:

Sorry if Raliegh is a swear word to all you experts, but what is the general
feeling of the Venture?

I don't know about the Venture, but Raleigh is certainly not a swear
word to me! I have a 9-ish year old Randonneur, and it is a lovely
bike. (Looks roughly at the level of the current Pioneer Venture GTE)

I think Raleigh have a bad reputation because they are (were?) a British
company, and it is traditional to knock anything British as being
[censored]. If you like the Raleigh Venture, then don't be put off by the
brand, and don't be swayed by what your LBS is trying to sell you just
because he has it. When I bought my Randonneur, my LBS also wasn't a
Raleigh dealer, but he went to the trouble of getting one in for me.
I'm assuming you're looking at the Pioneer Venture at that price, and
for the money it looks good. I notice it has fork-mounted carrier
bosses, and that will be handy for camping touring.

Quoted message said:

Internet searches for this model have drawn up very little, so I

guess its

Quoted message said:

not that popular.

I assume you've checked the specs out on the Raleigh website?
http://www.raleighbikes.com/cycles.aspx

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Texy said:

Hi folks,
I am looking to purchase a road bike, suitable for weekend excursions,
including
camping overnight. I guess I,d be looking round trips of around the 100mile
distance.
So I guess a touring bike would be better than my MTB.
Unfortunately my budget only goes to the £350 - £400 mark.

I'm delighted with my Revolution Country from the Edinburgh bike coop
(http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=22636).
I've had it just over a year, done about 3000 miles, and had no
problems at all.

stephen

Chris Eilbeck said:

Texy said:

Hi folks, I am looking to purchase a road bike, suitable for weekend
excursions, including camping overnight. I guess I,d be looking
round trips of around the 100mile distance. So I guess a touring
bike would be better than my MTB.

Good plan! I've no idea what Raleigh bikes are like nowadays. The
last one I had was a Grifter Mk2 ;o)

My experience is even older :-)

The OP mentioned a Scott bike. I've never seen a Scott tourer, though I
could be wrong. Seen lots of their mountain bikes, some hybrids and some
road-racing machines. Therefore unsure what bike was being recommended as a
tourer.

Quoted message said:

You might like to consider a Dawes Horizon which should be a good bike
with reasonable equipment at that price point. Spa Cycles seem to be
doing a good offer on them at 360 quid.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p437

Going purely by website specs, the Raleigh Venture Pioneer looks fairly
similar to the Dawes.
The big differences I could see were frame design; the Dawes being a
"compact" style, and looks to have the front wheel a bit further forwards to
avoid toe overlap (ie. hitting rear of front mudguard with toe on pedal).
The overlap difference may just be the photograph angle.
The Dawes says it has secondary brake levers (cyclocross style), thus giving
more brake position options. Someone not used to drop bars might find the
secondary brake levers a significant benefit (and they're not like the
crappy ones sold in the 1970s).
The unknown is the frame quality and frame weight (which is down to what the
maker ordered from the robot frame assembly factory in the far east). As
more people tour on Dawes than Raleigh these days, I'd be biased towards
Dawes.

The other popular contender is the Edinburgh Cycle Coop "Revolution
Country", which is usually a tad cheaper than the Dawes list price, but
broadly similar specification. That said, Spa's discounted price on the
Dawes is probably lower than EBC's list price.

Overall, if buying by mail, I'd go with the Dawes from Spa, but my first
choice would be a trip round local bike shops to see if someone can come
close to Spa's price.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

"Texy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi folks,
I am looking to purchase a road bike, suitable for weekend excursions,
including
camping overnight. I guess I,d be looking round trips of around the
100mile distance.
So I guess a touring bike would be better than my MTB.
Unfortunately my budget only goes to the £350 - £400 mark. I already have
tools,
lights, pump, lock etc, but I have no panniers. I was looking at the
Raleigh Venture,
which can be purchased online for under £300. It already comes with the
panniers.
My LBS isn't a raleigh dealer, and does specialise in more upmarket
brands, and the
prices that go with them, but I thought I,d pop in and ask anyway. The guy
said he
had just the thing come in recently and pointed to a Scott bike with 700c
wheels and
semi-road tyres, 24 gears etc,etc, priced at £349, and I pushed for a deal
with lights, rear rack, panniers,
spare inner tube and a couple of water bottles, and he came back with a
£415 price,
which seems good. My slight concern, apart from going over budget
slightly, is that the bike in question,
and sorry I didn't take any notice of its model name, does have front
suspension,
and although it does have adjusters, I thought that was a no-no for road
bikes.
Sorry if Raliegh is a swear word to all you experts, but what is the
general feeling of the Venture?
Internet searches for this model have drawn up very little, so I guess its
not that popular.
Or does the Scott bike seem a better option?
Any advice would be appreciated,
Cheers,
Ian

If you're a beginner, then a LBS (if it's a good one) is a good idea.

Scott do a wide range of bikes. Was the one you saw flat-barred? If so, it
may have been a
Scott Sportster P4.

If you want front suspension, why not, although you'l get better value.
lightness and efficiency by not having it...

Peter

bargains to be had over at cycle promotions:

http://www.cycle-promotions.co.uk/touring.htm

if you are very big or very small, i like the look of the Saracen
Panorama 2004.. but they only have extreme sizes. good prices in
old-season horizons..

Paul Boyd said:

I think Raleigh have a bad reputation because they are (were?) a
British company, and it is traditional to knock anything British as
being [censored].

Their reputation was good before they stopped making bikes in Britain. Now
they don't even assemble bikes in Britain.

~PB

in message <[email hidden]>, Texy

(') said:

I am looking to purchase a road bike, suitable for weekend excursions,
including
camping overnight. I guess I,d be looking round trips of around the
100mile distance.
So I guess a touring bike would be better than my MTB.
Unfortunately my budget only goes to the £350 - £400 mark. I

Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op do a well regarded tourer for that money, the
Revolution Country, and seeing that I believe that deep linking now
works on their site you may find it here:

http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=22636

Quoted message said:

The
guy said he
had just the thing come in recently and pointed to a Scott bike with
700c wheels and
semi-road tyres, 24 gears etc,etc, priced at £349, and I pushed for a
deal with lights, rear rack, panniers,
spare inner tube and a couple of water bottles, and he came back with a
£415 price,
which seems good. My slight concern, apart from going over budget
slightly, is that the bike in question,
and sorry I didn't take any notice of its model name, does have front
suspension,
and although it does have adjusters, I thought that was a no-no for
road bikes.

Front suspension on the road needs to be done /exceedingly/ well if it's
to be of any use. Cannondale do suspended road bikes - the Silk Road
series - which are allegedly very good. But at £350 all up the best
you're going to get is elastomer - the Silk Road fork alone costs more
than that. And telescopic elastomer forks are very little use and add
weight.

A rigid carbon fibre fork is worth having on a road bike, because it
gives just a little bit more compliance than a metal fork; but until
you're spending very serious money indeed suspension on a road bike is
indeed a no-no.

Quoted message said:

Sorry if Raliegh is a swear word to all you experts, but what is the
general feeling of the Venture?

Raleigh have gone through a very bad period indeed. Various people are
saying that their bikes have started to get better again, but it'll be a
while before I'd trust them as a brand.

Quoted message said:

Or does the Scott bike seem a better option?

No. Go for the Edinburgh Country, or a second hand Dawes Galaxy.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; An enamorata is for life, not just for weekends.

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul

Boyd (') said:

I think Raleigh have a bad reputation because they are (were?) a
British
company, and it is traditional to knock anything British as being
[censored].

When Raleigh were a British company, they were most definitely not [censored].
The bikes built by the Special Products Division were superb (I've owned
two), and the ordinary production line Nottingham-built bikes were
pretty good (I've still got two, one twenty-three years old, the other
about fifteen). But since they became a marketing company for the
cheapest Chinese and Vietnamese [censored] they can find, they've been dire.
Word is they're starting to improve again - but they /needed/ to!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'there are no solutions, only precipitates'

In article <[email hidden]>

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul

Boyd (') said:

I think Raleigh have a bad reputation because they are (were?) a
British
company, and it is traditional to knock anything British as being
[censored].

When Raleigh were a British company, they were most definitely not [censored].
The bikes built by the Special Products Division were superb (I've owned
two), and the ordinary production line Nottingham-built bikes were
pretty good (I've still got two, one twenty-three years old, the other
about fifteen). But since they became a marketing company for the
cheapest Chinese and Vietnamese [censored] they can find, they've been dire.
Word is they're starting to improve again - but they /needed/ to!

Special Products Raleighs were fine, although not usually brilliant, but
back in the 80s and early 90s (the last time I had anything to do with
them, and when they were still made in Nottingham) the cheaper bikes
were often of inferior quality - people would buy them because they had
nice paint and "Raleigh is a good make" but they were trading on
reputation and a lot of imported bikes had better frames and components
for the same price.

In article <[email hidden]>
Texy <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

My slight concern, apart from going over budget slightly,
is that the bike in question,
and sorry I didn't take any notice of its model name, does have front
suspension,
and although it does have adjusters, I thought that was a no-no for road
bikes.

If you're going camping you'll probably find front panniers are useful -
you'll have a problem fitting them to suspension forks.

Rob Morley said:

Special Products Raleighs were fine, although not usually brilliant, but
back in the 80s and early 90s (the last time I had anything to do with
them, and when they were still made in Nottingham) the cheaper bikes
were often of inferior quality - people would buy them because they had
nice paint and "Raleigh is a good make" but they were trading on
reputation and a lot of imported bikes had better frames and components
for the same price.

I was happy with my Raleigh Clubman in 1985. It came with a certificate which
said "Hand built by craftsmen" and was signed by the man who assembled it.
I never got round to writing to thank him personally for bodging an imperial
nut onto a metric bolt.

--
Eiron

No good deed ever goes unpunished.

"Texy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi folks,
I am looking to purchase a road bike, suitable for weekend excursions,
including
camping overnight. I guess I,d be looking round trips of around the
100mile distance.
So I guess a touring bike would be better than my MTB.
Unfortunately my budget only goes to the £350 - £400 mark. I already have
tools,
lights, pump, lock etc, but I have no panniers. I was looking at the
Raleigh Venture,
which can be purchased online for under £300. It already comes with the
panniers.
My LBS isn't a raleigh dealer, and does specialise in more upmarket
brands, and the
prices that go with them, but I thought I,d pop in and ask anyway. The guy
said he
had just the thing come in recently and pointed to a Scott bike with 700c
wheels and
semi-road tyres, 24 gears etc,etc, priced at £349, and I pushed for a deal
with lights, rear rack, panniers,
spare inner tube and a couple of water bottles, and he came back with a
£415 price,
which seems good. My slight concern, apart from going over budget
slightly, is that the bike in question,
and sorry I didn't take any notice of its model name, does have front
suspension,
and although it does have adjusters, I thought that was a no-no for road
bikes.
Sorry if Raliegh is a swear word to all you experts, but what is the
general feeling of the Venture?
Internet searches for this model have drawn up very little, so I guess its
not that popular.
Or does the Scott bike seem a better option?
Any advice would be appreciated,
Cheers,
Ian

My most sincere thanks to all you so far!
I think I am edging towards the Dawes Horizon, which as has been pointed
out,
is available at discounted prices from a few sources.
Not too sure if I should go for the one from Spa-Cycles, which is the 2006
model
with 7005, Shimano Alivio & Sora STI shifters, etc, the one from Cycle
Promotions,
which is the 2004 model with 7005-T6 frame, Shimano Acera/Sora set or the
cheaper
one from Cycle Promotions, which doesn't give a model year, but has Reynolds
520 frame,
Shimano Alivio & Sora STI shifters.
As before, I am open to advice on the +/- of the three models above.
My next dilema is frame size. I am 'top heavy' 5ft7, with inside leg of
29inches. The various
online guides suggest a smaller frame, perhaps 50cm. The problem with my
mountin bike (different
kettle of fish, I agree), is that I think the frame is too small as I feel
very much front heavy on it,
although my saddle height, leg to ground length feels right. The size guides
don't take my pot-belly
into account! Difficult thing to do without actually sitting on the bike, I
know. Incidently the Scott
bike I sat on in the LBS had an adjustment on the saddle to move it
forward/backward. Not too sure if the Horizon will have this feature or not.

Thanks,
Ian

On 19/08/2006 21:52, Simon Brooke said,

Quoted message said:

When Raleigh were a British company, they were most definitely not [censored].

Just in case of any doubt, I was knocking the "British is [censored]" brigade,
not Raleigh itself. I've certainly had adverse comments along the lines
of "that bike's a Raleigh, what a load of [censored]" when I've been riding my
Randonneur. When I bought it, Raleigh was British.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Texy said:

"Texy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

My most sincere thanks to all you so far!
I think I am edging towards the Dawes Horizon, which as has been
pointed out,
is available at discounted prices from a few sources.
Not too sure if I should go for the one from Spa-Cycles, which is the
2006 model
with 7005, Shimano Alivio & Sora STI shifters, etc, the one from Cycle
Promotions,
which is the 2004 model with 7005-T6 frame, Shimano Acera/Sora set or
the cheaper
one from Cycle Promotions, which doesn't give a model year, but has
Reynolds 520 frame,
Shimano Alivio & Sora STI shifters.
As before, I am open to advice on the +/- of the three models above.

Not sure which way I'd jump on the frames; I don't think there is much in
Acera and Alivio, both are servicable if low-end Shimano mechs. They'll give
a few years use, then buy slightly better replacements when they are worn
out.

However, on the choice of the two shops mentioned, I'd buy from Spa; they've
been incredibly helpful to me in the past on the most trivially small of
purchases.

Quoted message said:

My next dilema is frame size. I am 'top heavy' 5ft7, with inside leg
of 29inches. The various
online guides suggest a smaller frame, perhaps 50cm.

The problem of mail order. If you don't know the size you need, you have a
problem. Obvious options are (a) ask a Local Bike Shop if they can come
near Spa's price, (b) travel to Spa at Harrogate, (c) see if discussions by
phone or email resolve the size issue, (d) get someone who knows sizes to
measure you.

Quoted message said:

The problem with
my mountin bike (different
kettle of fish, I agree), is that I think the frame is too small as I
feel very much front heavy on it,
although my saddle height, leg to ground length feels right.

Sounds like your handlebars are too low on the MTB. Try a different stem to
raise them a bit.

Quoted message said:

The size
guides don't take my pot-belly
into account! Difficult thing to do without actually sitting on the
bike, I know.

Quoted message said:

Incidently the Scott
bike I sat on in the LBS had an adjustment on the saddle to move it
forward/backward. Not too sure if the Horizon will have this feature
or not.

Any saddle slides along its rails. Not sure what other adjustment you'd need
?

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

in message <[email hidden]>, Texy

(') said:

My most sincere thanks to all you so far!
I think I am edging towards the Dawes Horizon, which as has been
pointed out,
is available at discounted prices from a few sources.
Not too sure if I should go for the one from Spa-Cycles, which is the
2006 model
with 7005, Shimano Alivio & Sora STI shifters, etc, the one from Cycle
Promotions,
which is the 2004 model with 7005-T6 frame, Shimano Acera/Sora set or
the cheaper
one from Cycle Promotions, which doesn't give a model year, but has
Reynolds 520 frame,
Shimano Alivio & Sora STI shifters.
As before, I am open to advice on the +/- of the three models above.
My next dilema is frame size. I am 'top heavy' 5ft7, with inside leg of
29inches. The various
online guides suggest a smaller frame, perhaps 50cm.

I would test ride. Which is an argument for going to an LBS, even though
it may cost you more. A bike that's the wrong size is never going to be
satisfactory.

Quoted message said:

Incidently the Scott
bike I sat on in the LBS had an adjustment on the saddle to move it
forward/backward. Not too sure if the Horizon will have this feature or
not.

If you mean you can slide the saddle backwards and forwards in the clamp,
that's been standard on all normal bicycle saddles for at least thirty
years. If you mean the seatpost has adjustable or reversible layback,
you can buy those seatposts as after-market items and they don't cost
that much.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of
bytes. Any opinion or meaning you find in it is your own creation.

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul

Boyd (') said:

On 19/08/2006 21:52, Simon Brooke said,

Quoted message said:

When Raleigh were a British company, they were most definitely not
[censored].

Just in case of any doubt, I was knocking the "British is [censored]"
brigade,
not Raleigh itself. I've certainly had adverse comments along the
lines of "that bike's a Raleigh, what a load of [censored]" when I've been
riding my
Randonneur. When I bought it, Raleigh was British.

Raleigh have been through a long, dark tea-time of the soul in the past
ten years, and many younger cyclists will only know them as vendors of
trash. So I can understand a younger cyclist assuming all Raleigh bikes
are rubbish. I hear that the standard is beginning to improve, but I
haven't yet seen a new Raleigh that I would recommend to anyone.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

to err is human, to lisp divine
;; attributed to Kim Philby, oddly enough.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Texy

(') said:

My most sincere thanks to all you so far!
I think I am edging towards the Dawes Horizon, which as has been
pointed out,
is available at discounted prices from a few sources.
Not too sure if I should go for the one from Spa-Cycles, which is the
2006 model
with 7005, Shimano Alivio & Sora STI shifters, etc, the one from Cycle
Promotions,
which is the 2004 model with 7005-T6 frame, Shimano Acera/Sora set or
the cheaper
one from Cycle Promotions, which doesn't give a model year, but has
Reynolds 520 frame,
Shimano Alivio & Sora STI shifters.
As before, I am open to advice on the +/- of the three models above.
My next dilema is frame size. I am 'top heavy' 5ft7, with inside leg of
29inches. The various
online guides suggest a smaller frame, perhaps 50cm.

I would test ride. Which is an argument for going to an LBS, even though
it may cost you more. A bike that's the wrong size is never going to be
satisfactory.

Quoted message said:

Incidently the Scott
bike I sat on in the LBS had an adjustment on the saddle to move it
forward/backward. Not too sure if the Horizon will have this feature or
not.

If you mean you can slide the saddle backwards and forwards in the clamp,
that's been standard on all normal bicycle saddles for at least thirty
years. If you mean the seatpost has adjustable or reversible layback,
you can buy those seatposts as after-market items and they don't cost
that much.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of
bytes. Any opinion or meaning you find in it is your own creation.

I,ve just taken a close look at my MTB, and yes, I can slide the saddle back
a good couple of inches.
I didn't even realise that I could do that!
Cheers,

Texy