advice for a little guy?

On 12 Jan 2006 01:07:05 -0800, "cactus of doom" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A bit of a problem I have, though, is that I don't really have any idea
what I'm doing.

Then you're in the right NG, none of these knobs know what they're
doing either, so listen to me.
Get a standard weight program that comes with any $30 barbell set.
Next follow it. You'll notice some exercises are very easy, others
very hard. You want to focus on the ones that are hard, and do two
sets of those that are hard while just doing the amount recommended on
the easy ones. In a year you'll be a frickin' monster.

"TBR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 12 Jan 2006 01:07:05 -0800, "cactus of doom" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A bit of a problem I have, though, is that I don't really have any idea
what I'm doing.

Then you're in the right NG, none of these knobs know what they're
doing either, so listen to me.
Get a standard weight program that comes with any $30 barbell set.
Next follow it. You'll notice some exercises are very easy, others
very hard. You want to focus on the ones that are hard, and do two
sets of those that are hard while just doing the amount recommended on
the easy ones. In a year you'll be a frickin' monster.

Good advice. Plus eat like a pig

"cactus of doom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi. I'm an extremely small 23 year old guy. I've never been able to
gain weight. At all. At 6 feet tall, I spent the past 8 years stuck
at 125 lbs., binge or purge. Eat more, gain nothing; eat less, lose
nothing. Strange.

Fairly common

Quoted message said:

I got my hands on some freeweights a couple weeks ago, and suddenly up
I'm to 135. Still tiny, but a great stride for me. And I'm noticably
stronger (though still quite weak).

Ahh, you have discovered the anicent secret that everyone else forgot. Good.

Quoted message said:

A bit of a problem I have, though, is that I don't really have any idea
what I'm doing. I try googling training advice, but the advice I find
is geared towards guys who can already lift appreciable weights. I
don't know what my max is, as I have no one to spot for me, but suffice
it to say that I couldn't bench 100 lbs if my life depended on it. For
other exercises, I put 20 lbs on my dumbells, and that's about my limit
as far as being able to make a smooth, stable motion right now. Other
than that, I don't know how to utilize freeweights to work most of my
body.

My upper body is filling out remarkably well, I'd say, except I can't
get my chest to do anything. I try bench presses and flies, but I
exhaust my arms and shoulders -- especially the shoulders -- and feel
nothing in my pecs. I got to use a friend's bowflex the other day, and
my pecs were burning up, but I can't count on seeing that thing too
often. I really need to fill out my chest, because right now it's
little more than a thin lining of skin over some ribs. Not nice to
look at.

I don't know why, but it's really hard for me to get a fulfilling
workout. I go until I can't go any more, but I almost never feel
anything the next day (except after doing squats -- I definitely feel
those). Is this bad? My current solution is to do a few "warm up"
reps on off days, to keep the muscles stimulated, but not overtaxed.
Good idea? Bad?

Pathetic as it is, being up to 135 is miracle for me, and I'm thinking
maybe I've finally found my way, so I want to maximize it. The sole
aim of my diet is calories: beer, soda, milk, pasta, pizza, meat,
burgers, taco bell, etc., and the disgustingly high fat content is not
an issue as I have about as little body fat as a living person can
have. My question is, given that my stomach space is extremely limited
(it's a feat of endurance for me just to eat two substantial meals a
day), should I look into some kind of powder? I have a friend who
swears up and down that liquid calories aren't worth half of what solid
calories are, and he managed to put on 30 pounds.

Your input is appreciated!

Actually, you are in a good position to do great things (your age and size--
I would kill for to start all over again).
Go here:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_artcls_stratdecon.html

and here:

http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/index.php

This second URL is geared toward chix, but the advice is universal and rock
solid.
After you have read everything, tried most of it, and hit your first plateau
(at about 200 Lbs) get back to us with specific questions.
Good Luck

--
Dr. Dickie
Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:02:15 +1000, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Good advice. Plus eat like a pig

Eating won't help him if it hasn't already.

"TBR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:02:15 +1000, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Good advice. Plus eat like a pig

Eating won't help him if it hasn't already.

stick to running advice

If you are wanting to add mass the exercises that I would specifically
recommend are:
deadlift, squat, bench press and incline press, pulldown and pullup.
Learn and use proper form for the exercises, especially deadlift and
squat since these can be dangerous if done wrong and carelessly.
Deadlift and squat are the two best exercises for gaining mass and
strength in my opinion and I noticed an all-around increase in my
strength and mass when I really started focusing on these (even on
seemingly unrelated lifts and muscles). I have read somewhere that
these exercises really cause the body to release more growth hormones.
Once you get stronger you could add in dips, they are a good exercise
but I would wait until you have a stronger base of muscle to support
your joints since these can be hard on the shoulders. Dumbell rows are
a good exercise that you could also add in. Overhead presses are also
good.
If you are looking to get bigger I would leave out the isolation
exercises such as curls, etc. You want to work as many muscles as
possible and focus your gym time on the compound lifts. I have had
good results with around three intense one-hour workouts a week. If
you don't at least feel like you worked out the next day then you are
not working hard enough.
As far as nutrition, I would focus on nutrient rich food. Empty
calories from beer, soda, etc would be better replaced with milk and/or
soy milk, fruit juices, meat, chicken, rice, beans, vegetables, fruits,
peanuts or other nuts. Eat a lot. Non-sugary trail mix is good for
calories. Drink a lot of water, I have noticed that I feel a lot
better and get better workouts since I made a conscious effort during
the day to drink a lot of water. I fill up a quart jar with water
several times a day in addition to my normal fluid intake. Muscle
contains a lot of water. Making whey protein smoothies to drink after
workouts can help in my opinion but also eat your normal healthy meal.
Use protein powder, milk or soy milk, honey, fruit, bananas, and maybe
sunflower seeds, I've posted what I use on another message.

If you have any other questions just ask.

James

cactus of doom said:

Hi. I'm an extremely small 23 year old guy. I've never been able
to gain weight. At all. At 6 feet tall, I spent the past 8 years
stuck at 125 lbs., binge or purge. Eat more, gain nothing; eat
less, lose nothing. Strange.

I got my hands on some freeweights a couple weeks ago, and suddenly
up I'm to 135. Still tiny, but a great stride for me. And I'm
noticably stronger (though still quite weak).

Well, there you go, do more of that 🙂.

Quoted message said:

A bit of a problem I have, though, is that I don't really have any
idea what I'm doing. I try googling training advice, but the advice
I find is geared towards guys who can already lift appreciable
weights. I don't know what my max is, as I have no one to spot for
me, but suffice it to say that I couldn't bench 100 lbs if my life
depended on it. For other exercises, I put 20 lbs on my dumbells,
and that's about my limit as far as being able to make a smooth,
stable motion right now. Other than that, I don't know how to
utilize freeweights to work most of my body.

Bench press, squats, deadlifts, bent over rows, and farmers walks hit
most everything, and are easy to learn. Cleans and overhead squats
are good too, but they are a little trickier. Pullups are good, as
are dips.

The real secret is that the body is one piece. You don't need to
exercise each and every muscle individually. Simply choose compound
exercises that work large portions of the body at one time.

Quoted message said:

My upper body is filling out remarkably well, I'd say, except I
can't get my chest to do anything. I try bench presses and flies,
but I exhaust my arms and shoulders -- especially the shoulders --
and feel nothing in my pecs. I got to use a friend's bowflex the
other day, and my pecs were burning up, but I can't count on seeing
that thing too often. I really need to fill out my chest, because
right now it's little more than a thin lining of skin over some
ribs. Not nice to look at.

Keep benching, it will happen. Chances are good that right now your
true weakness isn't your pecs but rather one of the other assisting
muscles. Interestingly enough a "burn" is not particularly indicative
of what is growing.

Quoted message said:

I don't know why, but it's really hard for me to get a fulfilling
workout. I go until I can't go any more, but I almost never feel
anything the next day (except after doing squats -- I definitely
feel those). Is this bad? My current solution is to do a few "warm
up" reps on off days, to keep the muscles stimulated, but not
overtaxed. Good idea? Bad?

Soreness isn't the goal. Adding more weight to the bar is the goal.
That's why it is critical that you write down exactly what you do
(sets, reps, weight, rest periods, etc.). You need to be able to
track your progress over time.

Quoted message said:

Pathetic as it is, being up to 135 is miracle for me, and I'm
thinking maybe I've finally found my way, so I want to maximize it.
The sole aim of my diet is calories: beer, soda, milk, pasta, pizza,
meat, burgers, taco bell, etc., and the disgustingly high fat
content is not an issue as I have about as little body fat as a
living person can have. My question is, given that my stomach space
is extremely limited (it's a feat of endurance for me just to eat
two substantial meals a day), should I look into some kind of
powder? I have a friend who swears up and down that liquid calories
aren't worth half of what solid calories are, and he managed to put
on 30 pounds.

There is no question that it is easier to drink calories than eat
them. However, that (to me) sounds a little extreme. Of course, I
had the exact opposite problem when I started lifting. I was fat 🙂.

Why don't you try eating more times a day first and see what that
does. You also might consider sharing what you are currently doing
with us. If you don't have anyone helping you with your workout there
are almost certainly things that you could do better.

Jason

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:45:41 +1000, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

stick to running advice

Look dumbass, he said he eats like a pig but doesn't gain. That means
he's clearly A) one of those people who can eat all they want and not
gain. Or B) Has a large tapeworm. So in either case eating won't
change a thing.

JamesG said:

If you are wanting to add mass the exercises that I would specifically
recommend are:

See what I mean? Here he's suggesting exercises that work for him.
Listen to me, get the basic program and NOTE the ones that are very
hard, and work on those. Work on YOUR weaknesses, not this guys.
Nobody can tell what these are except you. This why you get just a
basic program, and follow it concentrating on the ones you find hard.

TBR said:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:02:15 +1000, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Good advice. Plus eat like a pig

Eating won't help him if it hasn't already.

Exactly. But I'm trying anyway.

"TBR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:45:41 +1000, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

stick to running advice

Look dumbass, he said he eats like a pig but doesn't gain. That means
he's clearly A) one of those people who can eat all they want and not
gain. Or B) Has a large tapeworm. So in either case eating won't
change a thing.

Try gaining muscle with a calorie deficit diet if you think eating doesn't
matter - eating is everything (nearly)

JamesG said:

If you are wanting to add mass the exercises that I would specifically
recommend are:
deadlift, squat, bench press and incline press, pulldown and pullup.
Learn and use proper form for the exercises, especially deadlift and
squat since these can be dangerous if done wrong and carelessly.
Deadlift and squat are the two best exercises for gaining mass and
strength in my opinion and I noticed an all-around increase in my
strength and mass when I really started focusing on these (even on
seemingly unrelated lifts and muscles).

What exactly is the difference between the two? They seem to be
basically the same thing to me -- pushing yourself up with your legs.

David said:

"TBR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:45:41 +1000, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

stick to running advice

Look dumbass, he said he eats like a pig but doesn't gain. That means
he's clearly A) one of those people who can eat all they want and not
gain. Or B) Has a large tapeworm. So in either case eating won't
change a thing.

Try gaining muscle with a calorie deficit diet if you think eating doesn't
matter - eating is everything (nearly)

I think the main point here is that eating, on its own, is worth
nothing to me. Clearly, eating a lot combined with lifting has
results.

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:40:58 +1000, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Try gaining muscle with a calorie deficit diet if you think eating doesn't
matter - eating is everything (nearly)

Where'd I say that idiot? He said "I eat like a pig", so no further
comment on diet was required. You turned it into a stupid/stupider
match. I clearly said "diet won't make a difference in this case" and
in no way suggested a "calorie defecit diet".
Get a grip, and try to sober up before you post next time.

On 12 Jan 2006 13:58:39 -0800, "cactus of doom" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I think the main point here is that eating, on its own, is worth
nothing to me.

Correct. Since you said you eat like a pig, I concluded diet isn't the
issue.

Jason Earl said:

"cactus of doom" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Bench press, squats, deadlifts, bent over rows, and farmers walks hit
most everything, and are easy to learn. Cleans and overhead squats
are good too, but they are a little trickier. Pullups are good, as
are dips.

If only I had a pullup bar 🙁

Quoted message said:

The real secret is that the body is one piece. You don't need to
exercise each and every muscle individually. Simply choose compound
exercises that work large portions of the body at one time.

Makes sense.

Quoted message said:

Keep benching, it will happen. Chances are good that right now your
true weakness isn't your pecs but rather one of the other assisting
muscles. Interestingly enough a "burn" is not particularly indicative
of what is growing.

I was wondering if that was the way to approach it: continuing the
overall and let the weaknesses catch up rather than targettting the
weaknesses. I guess that's more of a natural approach anyway.

Quoted message said:

Soreness isn't the goal. Adding more weight to the bar is the goal.

Should I be working on finding my absolute maximum and doing only a
couple of reps? I'm sure my understanding of the body isn't perfect,
but it just doesn't seem like lifting something once or twice is going
to stimulate growth -- or else I would already be built from lugging
around my 90 lb amplifier.

Quoted message said:

Why don't you try eating more times a day first and see what that
does. You also might consider sharing what you are currently doing
with us. If you don't have anyone helping you with your workout there
are almost certainly things that you could do better.

I try to eat as often as possible, but for some reason my stomach acts
like a really sensitive valve. As soon as I stop eating, sometimes
even if just for a minute or two (say, engaging in conversation), my
appetite fades. It's as if my stomach is saying, "hey, i've got some
work to do now, would you leave me alone?" So my solution is to shove
as much food down there as possible at a time, since no matter how much
I eat, I won't be the least bit hungry again for a while.

Right now I'm on a four day cycle:
day 1: curls, 20 lbs., 6 reps, 3 sets
shoulder press, 20 lbs., 15 reps, 2 sets
triceps extension, 20 lbs, 10 reps, 3 set
day 2: bench press, 40 lbs, 8 reps, 3 sets
flies, but I can't really do them right anyway
curls, 15 lbs, 10 reps
extension, 15 lbs, 10 reps (the "warm ups" i mentioned
earlier)
day 3: squats, 40 pounds, 10 reps, 2 sets
weighted curls, as many as i can do
same "warm ups"
day 4: rest

I know the weights are really low, but any more and i can't do the
moves properly (for right now; i'm increasing steadily). I go until my
muscles are too tight to go any more, but apparently it's not enough to
feel the next day (except the squats).

However, I'm going to change this quite a bit, seeing as everyone
recommends compound excersizes.
Thanks!

cactus of doom said:

JamesG said:

If you are wanting to add mass the exercises that I would specifically
recommend are:
deadlift, squat, bench press and incline press, pulldown and pullup.
Learn and use proper form for the exercises, especially deadlift and
squat since these can be dangerous if done wrong and carelessly.
Deadlift and squat are the two best exercises for gaining mass and
strength in my opinion and I noticed an all-around increase in my
strength and mass when I really started focusing on these (even on
seemingly unrelated lifts and muscles).

What exactly is the difference between the two? They seem to be
basically the same thing to me -- pushing yourself up with your legs.

Not even hardly. One's a push and one's a pull. Start learning:

http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBSquat.html

http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBDeadlift.html

of course diet matters in his case as in every case -
diet is everything (nearly)

"TBR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:40:58 +1000, "David" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Try gaining muscle with a calorie deficit diet if you think eating doesn't
matter - eating is everything (nearly)

Where'd I say that idiot? He said "I eat like a pig", so no further
comment on diet was required. You turned it into a stupid/stupider
match. I clearly said "diet won't make a difference in this case" and
in no way suggested a "calorie defecit diet".
Get a grip, and try to sober up before you post next time.

"TBR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 12 Jan 2006 13:58:39 -0800, "cactus of doom" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I think the main point here is that eating, on its own, is worth
nothing to me.

Correct. Since you said you eat like a pig, I concluded diet isn't the
issue.

Let me 'splain something to you, genius. 'eating like a pig' is not a
technical term that is measureable. He could *think* he is eating like a pig
but still not consuming more calories than he burns. Get it? So he has to
*know* he is not *only* eating like a pig, but eating enough calories over
maintenance. Eating like a pig may only be giving him maintenance for all we
know. Plus eating like a pig may not be giving him the nutrition he needs as
he mentions soda, chips, fast food etc.