Advice?

Moselle is flat and lovely. Lots of Germany has flat cycle routes. The Rhine is pretty flat.

Recommend Moselle no 1. I've done it.

In message <[email hidden]>, wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The Unfit Family is seriously considering a cycling holiday in Germany this summer. Any
suggestions? Experiences we can learn from?

Cheers, helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
Flush out that intestinal parasite and/or the waste product before sending a reply!

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~~~~~~~~~~

The German tourist board provides quite a lot of information, based around signed routes. See the
following link. germany-tourism.de9202.htmlOpen ↗

Nearly everywhere apart from the far north and east is hillier than most people would think. Garry's
comment about the Moselle (Mosel in German) being flat is true if you keep to the valley but not if
you don't!

Munsterland (near Holland, north of Dortmund) markets itself as a cycling destination. Lots of
moated castles and pretty flat.

The cycle path along the Wine Road in the Palatinate (Pfalz) winds through vineyards and pretty
villages such as Deidesheim as well as small, interesting towns such as Bad Duerkheim.

The Eifel is a range of extinct volcanoes up near Aachen, lots of pretty villages.

Southern Germany is also to be recommended, just north of the Alps. It's flatter than you might
think and Bavaria in the Summer is beautiful.

You've got me started now. I might keep coming back to this topic. I lived in Germany for 7 years
and will be going this Summer too!
--
Michael MacClancy

"wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Unfit Family is seriously considering a cycling holiday in Germany

this

Quoted message said:

summer. Any suggestions? Experiences we can learn from?

Go for it. Lovely place with great cycle routes.

Look at germany-tourism.degermany-tourism.deOpen ↗ and adfc.deadfc.deOpen ↗ (the German CTC -- I think there is
an English version -- if not, somewhere I have their UK contact details for an English brochure --
let me know if you need me to look them out)

also look at homepage.ntlworld.comgerman trip.htmOpen ↗ -- my own stroll down the
Mosel (OK if a little boring).

My German friends tell me the Nekar Valley is the one to do.

T

I've done the Neckar too. It's good. Not better than the Moselle.

I've done the Rhine from Coblenz to Mannheim, the Neckar to Stuttgart, the Mosel, the Lahn (that's
very good), the Nahe valley (very good), the Romantische Strasse, very good and Bavaria from
Neuschwannstein to Lake Constance through Austria. Anywhere in Germany is not bad. The cycling
paths, good food, reasonable scenery and prices make it.

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Look at germany-tourism.degermany-tourism.deOpen ↗ and adfc.deadfc.deOpen ↗ (the

German

Quoted message said:

CTC -- I think there is an English version -- if not, somewhere I have

their

Quoted message said:

UK contact details for an English brochure -- let me know if you need me

to

Quoted message said:

look them out)

This is what they told me:

please order the brochure Discovering german by bike under the following email-adress in London:
[email hidden]

Modify to remove the reds under the bed 🙂

T

I am going to Cochem (n the Moselle) on Friday to visit my mate Terry. We'll be doing some rides
around there on Friday and Saturday then off to Belgium on Sunday for the Liege-Bastogne-Liege. The
roads up the sides of the valley do not look easy !

"Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Moselle is flat and lovely. Lots of Germany has flat cycle routes. The Rhine is pretty flat.

Recommend Moselle no 1. I've done it.

"wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Unfit Family is seriously considering a cycling holiday in Germany

this

Quoted message said:

summer. Any suggestions? Experiences we can learn from?

We did a full tour of Germany last year in the car. The most beautiful part was in the Bavarian
Alps, although not good for cycling.The family didn't like the old East Germany due to the skinheads
and unemployment, I but loved the old communist feel to the area and enjoyed exploring the old iron
curtain borders.

The Niedersachsen area next to the Dutch border is ideal for cycling as is the Rhine Valley around
Koblenz (if you stay in the valley ;-). Or you could explore Upper Franconia around Bamberg, Coburg
etc. I don't think we saw any UK people the whole time we were there and we thoroughly enjoyed it.
Apart from me not being able to eat the local cuisine, being forced to eat in Chineses every day.
At least the beer was good.

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

Simon Mason <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Unfit Family is seriously considering a cycling holiday in Germany

this

Quoted message said:

summer. Any suggestions? Experiences we can learn from?

We did a full tour of Germany last year in the car. The most beautiful

part

Quoted message said:

was in the Bavarian Alps, although not good for cycling.The family didn't like the old East
Germany due to the skinheads and unemployment, I but loved the old communist feel to the area and
enjoyed exploring the old

iron

Quoted message said:

curtain borders.

The Niedersachsen area next to the Dutch border is ideal for cycling as

is

Quoted message said:

the Rhine Valley around Koblenz (if you stay in the valley ;-). Or you

could

Quoted message said:

explore Upper Franconia around Bamberg, Coburg etc. I don't think we saw

any

Quoted message said:

UK people the whole time we were there and we thoroughly enjoyed it. Apart from me not being able
to eat the local cuisine, being forced to eat in Chineses every day. At least the beer was good.

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

Helen,

I travel to Germany every week on business, if you need any info picked up let me know. I also have
colleagues there who are competitive cyclists and triathletes..if you would like any specific
answers I can get them for you via them.

HTH

--
Mark
____________________________
Practice does not make perfect... Perfect practice makes perfect

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(wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter) said:

I speak a bit of German (enough to get by).

Oh do you now? Perhaps I should be asking you to help with my pronunciation then...

In anticipation of my upcoming Swiss sojourn I've been trying to learn some German phrases. You'd
never believe I took the language for O' Level. All I can tell you is "Lumpi ist mein hund" and ask
"Wo ist Liselotte?" I can't see those being at all helpful.

Bob
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Call me Bob said:

(wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter) said:

I speak a bit of German (enough to get by).

Oh do you now? Perhaps I should be asking you to help with my pronunciation then...

In anticipation of my upcoming Swiss sojourn I've been trying to learn some German phrases. You'd
never believe I took the language for O' Level. All I can tell you is "Lumpi ist mein hund" and
ask "Wo ist Liselotte?" I can't see those being at all helpful.

Surely better to learn Schwyzertüüsch (Swiss German) for that? The Swiss read and write Hochdeutsch
(or a Swiss slight variation of it) but conversation is virtually all in Swiss German - a rather
different language from German.

Tony

--
raven-family.comraven-family.comOpen ↗

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to
adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George
Bernard Shaw

Tony Raven said:

Surely better to learn Schwyzertüüsch (Swiss German) for that? The Swiss read and write Hochdeutsch
(or a Swiss slight variation of it) but conversation is virtually all in Swiss German - a rather
different language from German.

Yes, I realise they speak Swiss German but I've only had chance to do some playing about online so
far, no time to go buy a phrasebook/dictionary. None of the translation webpages I found offered the
Swiss variant, just plain vanilla German. I figured that knowing at least a few polite German
phrases would be better than shouting at them in English V E R Y S L O W L Y!!

As another poster has pointed out, they all speak different regional dialects anyway. Still, once
I've had "Toblerone" tattooed on one hand and "Bier" on the other, I'll be sorted.

Bob
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Michael MacClancy said:

Virtually pointless.

The variation in cantonal dialects can be so great that people from different cantons can often
barely understand each other when speaking dialect. All German-speaking Swiss speak High German.

I think you mean they can all speak High German. However my four neices who have lived all their
lives in the German speaking part of Switzerland appear to have no more problems with Swiss German
across the country than we do with the different English dialects. Swiss German is what they, their
friends and everyone they meet speak in daily life. Its said there are part of England where you
cannot understand what people are saying in the local English dialect.

Tony

--
raven-family.comraven-family.comOpen ↗

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to
adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George
Bernard Shaw

Call me Bob said:

None of the translation webpages I found offered the Swiss variant, just plain vanilla German. I
figured that knowing at least a few polite German phrases would be better than shouting at them in
English V E R Y S L O W L Y!!

That's because its a spoken, not a written, language. Actually their English is embarassingly good
in a large percentage of the population. Shouting at them in English VERY SLOWLY would be a major
insult ;-) Talking in normal English would be perfectly acceptable. Its worth learning common
phrases like Greuzi and Merci Vilmal though

Tony

--
raven-family.comraven-family.comOpen ↗

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to
adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George
Bernard Shaw

Michael MacClancy said:

You might be interested in the following: ethnologue.comshow language.aspOpen ↗

If what it says about mutual unintelligibility is true then my conclusion would be that your
nieces are either very linguistically talented or have had a limited exposure to the various
dialects or are routinely spoken to in Standard German.

I suspect its a bit like England. There are dialects all over the country that are often
unintelligible to those from outside the local area but there is a strong common element to the
language that means we can communicate quite easily if we have to. But the basic point it raises is
that 72% use Schwyzertüüsch as their everyday language and 66% speak no High German which makes the
value of practising German for friendly conversation in Switzerland rather questionable Far better
to learn a few Schwyzertüüsch phrases ;-)

Isn't it amazing the range of topics cycling can take you through?

Tony

--
raven-family.comraven-family.comOpen ↗

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to
adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George
Bernard Shaw.

A very nice Swiss cyclist I met in NZ told me of the German words for headwind & tailwind. Gegenwind
(opposite wind, not bad) and Ruchenwind (back wind, mmm, I wonder).

And of course the german for headache is Michael Owenitus accrding to Jonathan Pierce

"wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Lumpi ist mein hund" and ask "Wo ist Liselotte?" I can't see those being at all helpful.

I can.

Well, if you have a dog called Lumpi and you wish to inform the world

about it,

Quoted message said:

and a person you know called Liselotte and you need to know where she is.

Other

Quoted message said:

than that ...

Just don't say "Ich bin heiss" when what you mean is "Mir ist heiss" or

words

Quoted message said:

to that effect as the first phrase has a different effect;-)

Cheers, helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
Flush out that intestinal parasite and/or the waste product before sending

a

Quoted message said:

reply!

Any speeliong mistake$ aR the resiult of my cats sitting on the

keyboaRRRDdd

Quoted message said:

~~~~~~~~~~

Michael MacClancy said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Far better to learn a few Schwyzertüüsch phrases ;-)

I'm interested to know why you insist on writing the word 'Schwyzertüüsch'. It only appears twice
on google. 'Schweizerdeutsch' or 'Schwyzerdeutsch' are the more usual spellings.

europeforvisitors.comswiss german.htmOpen ↗

Different dialects ;-) There are lots of different spellings you can find but since it is mainly a
spoken rather than written language it doesn't have a strict spelling. I've seen it Schwyzertuusch,
Schwyzer Tuusch, Schwyzer Tutsch, Schwyserduusch, Schwyzer Dutsch, Schwyzer Deutsch....... I just
chose one and stayed consistent.

Tony

--
raven-family.comraven-family.comOpen ↗

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to
adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George
Bernard Shaw

wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter said:

The Unfit Family is seriously considering a cycling holiday in Germany this summer. Any
suggestions? Experiences we can learn from?

A very fine account of cycle touring in Germany is here:

ftp://ftp.mirror.ac.uk/sites/metalab.unc.edu/pub/docs/books/gutenberg/etext00/tmotb10.txt

also available in many dead-tree editions.

Mike

Michael MacClancy of said:

In message <[email hidden]>, wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I know I don't want to do more than about 30-40 miles a day as I want to keep it *enjoyable* as
opposed to feeling I must keep cycling or I won't make the accommodation before dark ;-)

You don't say whether you want a tour with a different hotel every night or want to stay in one
centre. Once again I think Munsterland meets your requirements for flatness and it isn't far from
the UK either. I quote from "Rad-Wanderfuehrer Muensterland" by Guenter R E Richter:

I'm off to Germany tomorrow, not cycling this time but lace-making (see website in sig). I go to a
town named Bad Laer in the Teutoberger Wald, which is in the Osnabrueck/Muenster area. It's often
struck me that it would be a good place for a cycling holiday, lots of gentle wooded hills. The
tracks through the woods near Bad Laer are very definitely walkers only, no cyclists.

However, the delights of a multi-centre holiday where someone else moves the luggage by van always
win out. So this year we are for the 4th time signed up for cycling with Bike Bavaria, although this
year we are going to Austria. bentstours.combentstours.comOpen ↗ Bavaria is full of alps, but there are
lovely flat valleys with lakes in, then usually a short sharp up and over into the next valley. Also
had a good holiday last year around the Franken wine area, the river Main and the Romantische
Strasse - Rothenburg and Dinkelsbuehl.

Look up the public holiday dates for the German state(s) you intend to travel too, as there are both
local and national ones. If you avoid the public holidays, then tourist areas in Germany always have
plenty of vacancies in well kept and cheap guest houses, so no need to book in advance.
--
The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid
moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are
missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser Steph Peters delete invalid from [email hidden]
Tatting, lace & stitching page <sandbenders.demon.co.ukindex.htmOpen ↗

On 20 Apr 2003 20:52:14 GMT, contributor Wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter had scribed:

Quoted message said:

The Unfit Family is seriously considering a cycling holiday in Germany this summer. Any
suggestions? Experiences we can learn from?

May be a little late on this one, so what's new!

The ADFC, the German equivalent to the CTC, have produced a series of cycling map which cover the
whole country. These maps are useful in that roads like motorways and high speed roads are
lowlighted (white with grey edges, IIRC) and roads and tracks which are frequently used for cycling
are coloured accordingly traffic density. Long distance cycle routes are marked as are places at
which one may get some refreshment. Gradients stepper than 3% (about 1 in 30) are also marked.
Having decided where to go get hold the maps for the appropriate area from the CTC shop.

A little over ten years ago (before children), my wife and I made a short tour around Lower Saxony,
the route was approximately, from Hamburg southwards to the outskirts of Hannover (where she had a
friend) in three days, spent a few days there and from the north east to Schnackenburg (a shadow of
its former self, being the nearest part of the former-West, except Berlin, to Berlin) in three days
after which we returned north-westwards to Hamburg in four days. Distance per day wasn't ambitious
and with the exception of the first night, all accommodation (B&B or small hotel/inn type) was
booked a day at a time.

I doubt the system hasn't changed, the TICs do not help with booking accommodation, they have
accommodation lists and brochures for each area and one makes contact oneself in one's best German!

One memorable occasion was when the proprietor (an urban farmer) sent his daughter and a friend on
their bikes out to meet us at the TIC and later on we met him on his bike (not prearranged) after
post 'evening-spin' (our evening trip) meal on his way back from a choir practice.

Gary

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