Advance stop lines

Matt B said:

With more and more "advanced stop lines" springing up at traffic lights,
does anyone have any advice as to how they are supposed to be used?

The highway code is a bit lacking in this area.

Are cyclists supposed to pile down the inside cycle lane and fill the red
space between the two stop lines?

Precisely. I understand that (technically) you should ONLY use the
cycle lane to enter the box, but this is of course unworkable depending
on traffic conditions.

Quoted message said:

When the lights change to green what is the protocol for an orderly
departure - should bikes continue line abreast or jossle back into single
file?

Same as normal, I guess, no more than 2 abreast. Personally I prefer to
see groups single out on busy roads, although our local CTC section
never does - I've known drivers be stuck behind for 5 minutes. When I
rode with Beacon RCC there was a bit more discipline ;-)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:59:55 +0100 someone who may be "Matt B"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

With more and more "advanced stop lines" springing up at traffic lights,
does anyone have any advice as to how they are supposed to be used?

"Cyclecraft" covers them.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

With more and more "advanced stop lines" springing up at traffic lights,
does anyone have any advice as to how they are supposed to be used?

The highway code is a bit lacking in this area.

Are cyclists supposed to pile down the inside cycle lane and fill the red
space between the two stop lines?

When the lights change to green what is the protocol for an orderly
departure - should bikes continue line abreast or jossle back into single
file?

TIA.

--
Matt B

Hi Matt,

I thought I'd have a ferret on the 'net for a solution, and in Section 9.1.3
of http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/04091/09.htm I think I've found it.

The red box is there to highlight a zone for visibility, you don't move
across into it, but you do move forward as far as it's front edge. This puts
you ahead and left of the motorised stuff, so they know you're there, and
you don't get squished by 'artics' that wouldn't be able to see you if you
were alongside them.

I think painting the whole thing red is a big mistake, it leads cyclists to
think it's maybe a bunching zone ahead of everyone else, you're still only
entitled to your 3 feet on the left.

Regards

Nigel

"Nigel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

With more and more "advanced stop lines" springing up at traffic lights,
does anyone have any advice as to how they are supposed to be used?

The highway code is a bit lacking in this area.

Are cyclists supposed to pile down the inside cycle lane and fill the red
space between the two stop lines?

When the lights change to green what is the protocol for an orderly
departure - should bikes continue line abreast or jossle back into single
file?

TIA.

--
Matt B

Hi Matt,

I thought I'd have a ferret on the 'net for a solution, and in Section
9.1.3 of http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/04091/09.htm I think I've found
it.

The red box is there to highlight a zone for visibility, you don't move
across into it, but you do move forward as far as it's front edge. This
puts you ahead and left of the motorised stuff, so they know you're there,
and you don't get squished by 'artics' that wouldn't be able to see you if
you were alongside them.

I think painting the whole thing red is a big mistake, it leads cyclists
to think it's maybe a bunching zone ahead of everyone else, you're still
only entitled to your 3 feet on the left.

Regards

Nigel

Turning right?

Graham

Nigel said:

I think painting the whole thing red is a big mistake, it leads cyclists to
think it's maybe a bunching zone ahead of everyone else, you're still only
entitled to your 3 feet on the left.

I'm entitled to whichever part of the lane that is appropriate for my
situation. Cyclists' rights on the road don't stop 3ft from the kerb.

--
Tony

"Don't argue the matter, the difficulties will argue for themselves"
-W.S. Churchill

"Nigel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think painting the whole thing red is a big mistake, it leads cyclists

to

Quoted message said:

think it's maybe a bunching zone ahead of everyone else, you're still only
entitled to your 3 feet on the left.

Is the wrong answer.

Cyclists are entitled to use the whole road within the restrictions of the
law.

T

Matt B said:

With more and more "advanced stop lines" springing up at traffic
lights, does anyone have any advice as to how they are supposed to be
used?

Just do whatever comes naturally and seems reasonabubble. I like ASLs!

If it's not safe to use one then don't.

~PB

"Nigel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think painting the whole thing red is a big mistake, it leads cyclists
to think it's maybe a bunching zone ahead of everyone else, you're still
only entitled to your 3 feet on the left.

Regards

Nigel

Care to show which bit of law says cyclists can only use the left 3 feet of
road??

Cheers, helen s

Nigel said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

With more and more "advanced stop lines" springing up at traffic lights,
does anyone have any advice as to how they are supposed to be used?

The highway code is a bit lacking in this area.

You're right Matt:

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.htm#154

It doesn't say a great deal on the matter.

Quoted message said:

I thought I'd have a ferret on the 'net for a solution, and in Section 9.1.3
of http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/04091/09.htm I think I've found it.

See above for a link to UK government information on the subject. This
is after all uk.rec.cycling. :-)

Jon

Graham Dean said:

Turning right?

I actually have seen some crazy cyclists turn right by enetring the ASL from
the *left* hand cycle lane and then move diagonally across the ASL to turn
right which is potential suicide if the lights were to change just as they
were moving across!

Adrian Boliston said:

Graham Dean said:

Turning right?

I actually have seen some crazy cyclists turn right by enetring the ASL from
the *left* hand cycle lane and then move diagonally across the ASL to turn
right which is potential suicide if the lights were to change just as they
were moving across!

Good leaflet at
http://www.shef.ac.uk/content/1/c4/37/67/Advance_Stop_lines.pdf

"Turning right

If traffic is moving on the approach to the junction,
cyclists may wish to leave the cycle lane and approach
the junction towards the right of the traffic lane to make
the right turn - as they would at a junction with no ASL
- first making sure that it is clear to do so and indicating
their intentions to other road users.

If traffic is stopped, cyclists may wish to approach the
junction in the nearside cycle lane and take up a position
to the right of the cycle advance area, again after first
making sure that it is clear to do so and indicating their
intentions to other road users."

--
Tony

"Don't argue the matter, the difficulties will argue for themselves"
-W.S. Churchill

Adrian Boliston said:

Graham Dean said:

Turning right?

I actually have seen some crazy cyclists turn right by enetring the ASL from
the *left* hand cycle lane and then move diagonally across the ASL to turn
right which is potential suicide if the lights were to change just as they
were moving across!

I'd been wondering about these ASL boxes, they didn't exist last time
I rode!

You could say the same for as you enter the ASL box (to go straight
on).. the lights change as you reach it, the driver doesn't notice you
and turns left.

Having just started cycling again, I'm not sure where there are / are
not ASL's.. so at the moment I'm checking behind, signalling (if
needed), and moving to the centre of the lane I want to be in and
waiting behind the cars in front.

I stay in the centre of the lane until the junction has been crossed
(left, right or straight on), before moving back into a normal road
position.

I don't know if this right / wrong... but feels the safest way to me
at the moment.

Regards
Mark

"Nigel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

With more and more "advanced stop lines" springing up at traffic lights,
does anyone have any advice as to how they are supposed to be used?

The highway code is a bit lacking in this area.

Are cyclists supposed to pile down the inside cycle lane and fill the red
space between the two stop lines?

When the lights change to green what is the protocol for an orderly
departure - should bikes continue line abreast or jossle back into single
file?

I thought I'd have a ferret on the 'net for a solution, and in Section
9.1.3 of http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/04091/09.htm I think I've found
it.

The red box is there to highlight a zone for visibility, you don't move
across into it, but you do move forward as far as it's front edge. This
puts you ahead and left of the motorised stuff, so they know you're there,
and you don't get squished by 'artics' that wouldn't be able to see you if
you were alongside them.

I think painting the whole thing red is a big mistake, it leads cyclists
to think it's maybe a bunching zone ahead of everyone else, you're still
only entitled to your 3 feet on the left.

Interesting, but I'm not sure the US stuff applies in the UK.

--
Matt B

in message <[email hidden]>, Matt B

(') said:

With more and more "advanced stop lines" springing up at traffic
lights, does anyone have any advice as to how they are supposed to be
used?

The highway code is a bit lacking in this area.

Are cyclists supposed to pile down the inside cycle lane and fill the
red space between the two stop lines?

Yes. To enter any other way, after the lights have turned red, is
illegal. Mind you, to filter up the left side of left turning traffic
is suicidal, but you take your pick.

Quoted message said:

When the lights change to green what is the protocol for an orderly
departure - should bikes continue line abreast or jossle back into
single file?

In line abreast until safe and convenient to do otherwise, I would have
thought. Jostling in a junction with cars close behind does not sound
safe to me.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; not so much a refugee from reality, more a bogus
;; asylum seeker

"wafflycat" <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nigel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think painting the whole thing red is a big mistake, it leads cyclists
to think it's maybe a bunching zone ahead of everyone else, you're still
only entitled to your 3 feet on the left.

Care to show which bit of law says cyclists can only use the left 3 feet
of road??

Would you recommend using a cycle lane, if one exists, or would you avoid
it, and use the road to the right of it?

--
Matt B

in message <[email hidden]>, Nigel

(') said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

With more and more "advanced stop lines" springing up at traffic
lights, does anyone have any advice as to how they are supposed to be
used?

The highway code is a bit lacking in this area.

Are cyclists supposed to pile down the inside cycle lane and fill the
red space between the two stop lines?

When the lights change to green what is the protocol for an orderly
departure - should bikes continue line abreast or jossle back into
single file?

I thought I'd have a ferret on the 'net for a solution, and in Section
9.1.3 of http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/04091/09.htm I think I've
found it.

The red box is there to highlight a zone for visibility, you don't
move across into it, but you do move forward as far as it's front
edge. This puts you ahead and left of the motorised stuff, so they
know you're there, and you don't get squished by 'artics' that
wouldn't be able to see you if you were alongside them.

I think painting the whole thing red is a big mistake, it leads
cyclists to think it's maybe a bunching zone ahead of everyone else,
you're still only entitled to your 3 feet on the left.

You are _always_ entitled to the whole bloody road, except motorways.
Allowing yourself to be pushed to the left is exceedingly dangerous.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I'd rather live in sybar-space

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nigel said:

I think painting the whole thing red is a big mistake, it leads cyclists
to think it's maybe a bunching zone ahead of everyone else, you're still
only entitled to your 3 feet on the left.

I'm entitled to whichever part of the lane that is appropriate for my
situation. Cyclists' rights on the road don't stop 3ft from the kerb.

Would you move forward in a queue at lights into the ASL red zone if it had
a few other bikes in it?

--
Matt B

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Would you recommend using a cycle lane, if one exists, or would you avoid
it, and use the road to the right of it?

It depends. Given that many 'cycle lanes' comprise a red or green painted
gutter complete with drains, gulleys, yellow lines, crumbling tarmac and
other [censored] it is often best to avoid them.

A favourite is to paint a red or green stripe along side a line of parking
bays -- nicely in line for a 'car dooring'. Again, best avoided.

Of course, cycling inside a cycle lane allows our less bright motoring
colleagues to ignore the cyclist all together and zoom along with his inside
wheels on or very near the edge of the lane.

Alternatively, cycling outside the green/red painted stripe tends to annoy
Johnny Plonker who starts shouting [censored] about getting off of 'his' road and
demonstrating his lack of knowledge on 'road tax', licensing regulations and
insurance.

Ho hum.

Personally, I cycle where I feel it is safest to do so -- regardless of
decorated guttering of Johnny Plonker's 'advice'. If in doubt -- make the
[censored] wait.

:~)

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark Blewett

(') said:

Having just started cycling again, I'm not sure where there are / are
not ASL's.. so at the moment I'm checking behind, signalling (if
needed), and moving to the centre of the lane I want to be in and
waiting behind the cars in front.

I stay in the centre of the lane until the junction has been crossed
(left, right or straight on), before moving back into a normal road
position.

I don't know if this right / wrong... but feels the safest way to me
at the moment.

As far as I'm concerned, that is definitely the safest thing to do.
Claim and hold your lane position, don't always try to filter to the
front of the queue. It may make your journeys a little longer, but it
could make your life a lot longer.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; when in the [censored], the wise man plants courgettes