Adjusting 6600 FD to avoid dropping chain

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?

Thanks!

Joseph

PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
53-25...

Well, if you're not interested in what anybody who knows what they're
talking about will tell you, then I recommend a 3rd eye chain watcher. It
clamps to the seat tube and keeps the chain from falling off.

Hank Wirtz said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?

Thanks!

Joseph

PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
53-25...

Well, if you're not interested in what anybody who knows what they're
talking about will tell you, then I recommend a 3rd eye chain watcher. It
clamps to the seat tube and keeps the chain from falling off.

I've been meaning to order one of those anyway, but I figure that
should only be there for emergencies like changing rings while hitting
a big pothole, or something. Not as a general fix for avoiding an
assured chain drop.

I'm usually not in the 53-25, I just go by feel, and sometimes while
looking for lower gears I end up there. Then I try one more downshift,
realize I've run out of cogs, but I'm still in the big ring and have
run out of time, so I need the 39 quick. not a good time to drop the
chain!

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?

Thanks!

Joseph

PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
53-25...

Here's the Shimano service instructions (pdf) - it says 0.0 - 0.5mm
clearance so it may be that simple of a fix. Caution - there is
anti-crosschaining verbage in there as well.

http://tinyurl.com/l3z62

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been meaning to order one of those anyway, but I figure that
should only be there for emergencies like changing rings while hitting
a big pothole, or something. Not as a general fix for avoiding an
assured chain drop.

Well, if we're dealing in "should," then you shouldn't be cross-chaining.

The 3rd eye can't tell why the chain's falling, it just deflects it back
onto the ring. Your motivation in having it doesn't matter.

Quoted message said:

Hank Wirtz said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?

Thanks!

Joseph

PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
53-25...

Well, if you're not interested in what anybody who knows what they're
talking about will tell you, then I recommend a 3rd eye chain watcher. It
clamps to the seat tube and keeps the chain from falling off.

I've been meaning to order one of those anyway, but I figure that
should only be there for emergencies like changing rings while hitting
a big pothole, or something. Not as a general fix for avoiding an
assured chain drop.

I'm usually not in the 53-25, I just go by feel, and sometimes while
looking for lower gears I end up there. Then I try one more downshift,
realize I've run out of cogs, but I'm still in the big ring and have
run out of time, so I need the 39 quick. not a good time to drop the
chain!

Joseph

I don't think any front derailleur adjustment will work. Due to the
extreme angle of the chain when you go to the lower chainring, its more
likely to drop. Its trying to fall onto the inner chainring with the
chain skewed across the chainring. Less surface area meeting between
the chain and ring. Unlike if you were in the middle of the cogset,
the chian and ring are pretty much perfectly aligned in a straight line
so when the chain falls down to the inner ring, it has about 100% of
its surface area meeting up with 100% of the ring's surface area. When
shifting to the inner ring, the front derailleur throws the chain
inwards, combined with the chain already severely angled inwards when
using the big cog, its going to go too far inward more often.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hank Wirtz said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Hi All,
>
> When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
> the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
> is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
> be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
> should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joseph
>
> PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
> 53-25...
>

Well, if you're not interested in what anybody who knows what they're
talking about will tell you, then I recommend a 3rd eye chain watcher. It
clamps to the seat tube and keeps the chain from falling off.

I've been meaning to order one of those anyway, but I figure that
should only be there for emergencies like changing rings while hitting
a big pothole, or something. Not as a general fix for avoiding an
assured chain drop.

I'm usually not in the 53-25, I just go by feel, and sometimes while
looking for lower gears I end up there. Then I try one more downshift,
realize I've run out of cogs, but I'm still in the big ring and have
run out of time, so I need the 39 quick. not a good time to drop the
chain!

Joseph

I don't think any front derailleur adjustment will work. Due to the
extreme angle of the chain when you go to the lower chainring, its more
likely to drop. Its trying to fall onto the inner chainring with the
chain skewed across the chainring. Less surface area meeting between
the chain and ring. Unlike if you were in the middle of the cogset,
the chian and ring are pretty much perfectly aligned in a straight line
so when the chain falls down to the inner ring, it has about 100% of
its surface area meeting up with 100% of the ring's surface area. When
shifting to the inner ring, the front derailleur throws the chain
inwards, combined with the chain already severely angled inwards when
using the big cog, its going to go too far inward more often.

Except it didn't used to fall off, until I remounted the FD after I had
borrowed if for a little while...

Joseph

Hank Wirtz said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been meaning to order one of those anyway, but I figure that
should only be there for emergencies like changing rings while hitting
a big pothole, or something. Not as a general fix for avoiding an
assured chain drop.

Well, if we're dealing in "should," then you shouldn't be cross-chaining.

Good point! ;-)

Quoted message said:

The 3rd eye can't tell why the chain's falling, it just deflects it back
onto the ring. Your motivation in having it doesn't matter.

I'm worried that using one as a general kludge for keeping a
potentially not-correctly mounted drivetrain functional might invite
other problems. Like the chain slipping when it would otherwise have
dropped, etc.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hank Wirtz wrote:
> <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> > Hi All,
> >
> > When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
> > the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
> > is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
> > be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
> > should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> > PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
> > 53-25...
> >
>
> Well, if you're not interested in what anybody who knows what they're
> talking about will tell you, then I recommend a 3rd eye chain watcher. It
> clamps to the seat tube and keeps the chain from falling off.

I've been meaning to order one of those anyway, but I figure that
should only be there for emergencies like changing rings while hitting
a big pothole, or something. Not as a general fix for avoiding an
assured chain drop.

I'm usually not in the 53-25, I just go by feel, and sometimes while
looking for lower gears I end up there. Then I try one more downshift,
realize I've run out of cogs, but I'm still in the big ring and have
run out of time, so I need the 39 quick. not a good time to drop the
chain!

Joseph

I don't think any front derailleur adjustment will work. Due to the
extreme angle of the chain when you go to the lower chainring, its more
likely to drop. Its trying to fall onto the inner chainring with the
chain skewed across the chainring. Less surface area meeting between
the chain and ring. Unlike if you were in the middle of the cogset,
the chian and ring are pretty much perfectly aligned in a straight line
so when the chain falls down to the inner ring, it has about 100% of
its surface area meeting up with 100% of the ring's surface area. When
shifting to the inner ring, the front derailleur throws the chain
inwards, combined with the chain already severely angled inwards when
using the big cog, its going to go too far inward more often.

Except it didn't used to fall off, until I remounted the FD after I had
borrowed if for a little while...

Have you checked the inner limit screw setting (i.e., when in the 39-25
position)?

Diablo Scott said:

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?

Thanks!

Joseph

PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
53-25...

Here's the Shimano service instructions (pdf) - it says 0.0 - 0.5mm
clearance so it may be that simple of a fix. Caution - there is
anti-crosschaining verbage in there as well.

http://tinyurl.com/l3z62

Just get the chain widget. It works well, weighs almost nothing, and
keeps things running smoothly. Well, adjust the derailer as well, but
really, don't sweat having to use the widget, as it just plain works
and doesn't do any harm.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Hank Wirtz wrote:
> > <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > news:[email hidden]...
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
> > > the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
> > > is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
> > > be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
> > > should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Joseph
> > >
> > > PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
> > > 53-25...
> > >
> >
> > Well, if you're not interested in what anybody who knows what they're
> > talking about will tell you, then I recommend a 3rd eye chain watcher. It
> > clamps to the seat tube and keeps the chain from falling off.
>
> I've been meaning to order one of those anyway, but I figure that
> should only be there for emergencies like changing rings while hitting
> a big pothole, or something. Not as a general fix for avoiding an
> assured chain drop.
>
> I'm usually not in the 53-25, I just go by feel, and sometimes while
> looking for lower gears I end up there. Then I try one more downshift,
> realize I've run out of cogs, but I'm still in the big ring and have
> run out of time, so I need the 39 quick. not a good time to drop the
> chain!
>
> Joseph

I don't think any front derailleur adjustment will work. Due to the
extreme angle of the chain when you go to the lower chainring, its more
likely to drop. Its trying to fall onto the inner chainring with the
chain skewed across the chainring. Less surface area meeting between
the chain and ring. Unlike if you were in the middle of the cogset,
the chian and ring are pretty much perfectly aligned in a straight line
so when the chain falls down to the inner ring, it has about 100% of
its surface area meeting up with 100% of the ring's surface area. When
shifting to the inner ring, the front derailleur throws the chain
inwards, combined with the chain already severely angled inwards when
using the big cog, its going to go too far inward more often.

Except it didn't used to fall off, until I remounted the FD after I had
borrowed if for a little while...

Have you checked the inner limit screw setting (i.e., when in the 39-25
position)?

Yes, it's set such that there is about 1mm clearance to the chain.
According to another post, this clearance should be 0.0-0.5mm. But less
than 1mm and it scrapes when I mash.

Joseph

On 24 Apr 2006 11:42:34 -0700, [email hidden]
wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Except it didn't used to fall off, until I remounted the FD after I had
borrowed if for a little while...

Joseph

Dear Joseph,

It could be that your front derailleur is rotated at a
slightly different angle around the seat tube or that it's
mounted a little higher or lower.

But it could just be that your gear teeth and chain are a
little more worn and are past the point at which they can
handle the extreme shift that you have in mind.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
> > Hank Wirtz wrote:
> > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email hidden]...
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
> > > > the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
> > > > is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
> > > > be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
> > > > should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > Joseph
> > > >
> > > > PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
> > > > 53-25...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, if you're not interested in what anybody who knows what they're
> > > talking about will tell you, then I recommend a 3rd eye chain watcher. It
> > > clamps to the seat tube and keeps the chain from falling off.
> >
> > I've been meaning to order one of those anyway, but I figure that
> > should only be there for emergencies like changing rings while hitting
> > a big pothole, or something. Not as a general fix for avoiding an
> > assured chain drop.
> >
> > I'm usually not in the 53-25, I just go by feel, and sometimes while
> > looking for lower gears I end up there. Then I try one more downshift,
> > realize I've run out of cogs, but I'm still in the big ring and have
> > run out of time, so I need the 39 quick. not a good time to drop the
> > chain!
> >
> > Joseph
>
> I don't think any front derailleur adjustment will work. Due to the
> extreme angle of the chain when you go to the lower chainring, its more
> likely to drop. Its trying to fall onto the inner chainring with the
> chain skewed across the chainring. Less surface area meeting between
> the chain and ring. Unlike if you were in the middle of the cogset,
> the chian and ring are pretty much perfectly aligned in a straight line
> so when the chain falls down to the inner ring, it has about 100% of
> its surface area meeting up with 100% of the ring's surface area. When
> shifting to the inner ring, the front derailleur throws the chain
> inwards, combined with the chain already severely angled inwards when
> using the big cog, its going to go too far inward more often.

Except it didn't used to fall off, until I remounted the FD after I had
borrowed if for a little while...

Have you checked the inner limit screw setting (i.e., when in the 39-25
position)?

Yes, it's set such that there is about 1mm clearance to the chain.
According to another post, this clearance should be 0.0-0.5mm. But less
than 1mm and it scrapes when I mash.

That other post, from Diablo Scott, gives you a link to the Shimano
Tech site, the veritable "horse's mouth". Have you followed those
instructions *precisely*, in all regards?

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:01:23 -0700, "Hank Wirtz" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Well, if you're not interested in what anybody who knows what they're
talking about will tell you, then I recommend a 3rd eye chain watcher. It
clamps to the seat tube and keeps the chain from falling off.

The 3rd Eye is a piece of plastic to guard against the chain falling
inside the little ring, uses a hose clamp to attach to the seat tube,
so it's one size fits all, and retails for around $10.

The Deda Dog Fang looks the same as the 3rd Eye, but instead of the
hose clamp, comes in 3 sizes to fit standard seat tube diameters, and
retails for around $11.

For around $9.00, the N-Gear uses a metal part to prevent the chain
from falling, and also comes in 3 sizes.

The winner, however, is the $4.00 generic which is exactly the same as
the Deda, but $7.00 cheaper (because you don't pay for the logo?).

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=833043778591&c=Components

Doug Taylor said:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:01:23 -0700, "Hank Wirtz" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Well, if you're not interested in what anybody who knows what they're
talking about will tell you, then I recommend a 3rd eye chain watcher. It
clamps to the seat tube and keeps the chain from falling off.

The 3rd Eye is a piece of plastic to guard against the chain falling
inside the little ring, uses a hose clamp to attach to the seat tube,
so it's one size fits all, and retails for around $10.

The Deda Dog Fang looks the same as the 3rd Eye, but instead of the
hose clamp, comes in 3 sizes to fit standard seat tube diameters, and
retails for around $11.

For around $9.00, the N-Gear uses a metal part to prevent the chain
from falling, and also comes in 3 sizes.

The winner, however, is the $4.00 generic which is exactly the same as
the Deda, but $7.00 cheaper (because you don't pay for the logo?).

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=833043778591&c=Components

I want one of those generic 31.8mm's or a Deda! Problem is no
international shipping. I have no local sources for any of these, and
by the time I'm done finding a place it's not so cheap anymore.

Anyone have a paypal account I can send a few bucks to and they can pop
one in an envelope for me?

Joseph

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et
puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the
39, the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner
cage is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think
it may be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube.
How should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?

Thanks!

Joseph

PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
53-25...

As of my reading twelve answers to a question that needed none.
Patient : "Doctor, when I do that, it hurts me."
Doctor : "Then stop doing that."

From a guy who is engrossed in the LT details of his own life, managing the
little detail of handling your transmission should not be a bear. Next Q.

Derailleur outer cage metal face plate should be 2 mm above the teeth on the
big chain ring and parallel to the chain when the chain is in a straight
line (usually on the small chain ring and the 4th cog). The derailleur
outer cage metal face plate should also approximate the curve of the big
chain ring as it falls off to the rear of the bike.

I had a similar problem with a newly installed front derailleur. It came
off both on the up and down shift in more extreme positions because: 1) It
was about 4 mm above the teeth on the big chain ring, and 2) it wasn't
exactly parallel to the chain when the chain is in a straight line. Also
sounds like you might try moving the inner stop out further away from the
frame. I use the cross chaining "noise" to tell me I am cross chaining.
This prompts me to switch gears to a non-crossed chain position.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?

Thanks!

Joseph

PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
53-25...

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
the chain invariably drops.

No surprise there.

The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage

Quoted message said:

is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25.

Should be closer-shimano says 0.0 to 0.5mm...

So I think it may

Quoted message said:

be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?

The outside portion of the cage should be aligned with the chain when
in big ring, small cog combo....but just put ona chain watcher and not
worry about it-JumpStop

Quoted message said:

Thanks!

Joseph

PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
53-25...

Ozark Bicycle said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Hank Wirtz wrote:
> > <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > news:[email hidden]...
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
> > > the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
> > > is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
> > > be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
> > > should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Joseph
> > >
> > > PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
> > > 53-25...
> > >
> >
> > Well, if you're not interested in what anybody who knows what they're
> > talking about will tell you, then I recommend a 3rd eye chain watcher. It
> > clamps to the seat tube and keeps the chain from falling off.
>
> I've been meaning to order one of those anyway, but I figure that
> should only be there for emergencies like changing rings while hitting
> a big pothole, or something. Not as a general fix for avoiding an
> assured chain drop.
>
> I'm usually not in the 53-25, I just go by feel, and sometimes while
> looking for lower gears I end up there. Then I try one more downshift,
> realize I've run out of cogs, but I'm still in the big ring and have
> run out of time, so I need the 39 quick. not a good time to drop the
> chain!
>
> Joseph

I don't think any front derailleur adjustment will work. Due to the
extreme angle of the chain when you go to the lower chainring, its more
likely to drop. Its trying to fall onto the inner chainring with the
chain skewed across the chainring. Less surface area meeting between
the chain and ring. Unlike if you were in the middle of the cogset,
the chian and ring are pretty much perfectly aligned in a straight line
so when the chain falls down to the inner ring, it has about 100% of
its surface area meeting up with 100% of the ring's surface area. When
shifting to the inner ring, the front derailleur throws the chain
inwards, combined with the chain already severely angled inwards when
using the big cog, its going to go too far inward more often.

Except it didn't used to fall off, until I remounted the FD after I had
borrowed if for a little while...

Have you checked the inner limit screw setting (i.e., when in the 39-25
position)?

"The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25.

KnowWhen2HoldemKnowWhen2Foldem said:

Derailleur outer cage metal face plate should be 2 mm above the teeth on the
big chain ring and parallel to the chain when the chain is in a straight
line (usually on the small chain ring and the 4th cog). The derailleur
outer cage metal face plate should also approximate the curve of the big
chain ring as it falls off to the rear of the bike.

Not exactly...2mm is too high and if aligned on the forth cog, it will
be slow to shift to the small ring.

Quoted message said:

I had a similar problem with a newly installed front derailleur. It came
off both on the up and down shift in more extreme positions because: 1) It
was about 4 mm above the teeth on the big chain ring, and 2) it wasn't
exactly parallel to the chain when the chain is in a straight line. Also
sounds like you might try moving the inner stop out further away from the
frame. I use the cross chaining "noise" to tell me I am cross chaining.
This prompts me to switch gears to a non-crossed chain position.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

When I am in my 53-25 cross-chained too the max, and I shift to the 39,
the chain invariably drops. The way it is adjusted now, the inner cage
is only about 1mm from the chain when in the 39-25. So I think it may
be not correctly mounted vis-a-vis rotation on the seat-tube. How
should a 6600 shaped cage be aligned with the chainrings?

Thanks!

Joseph

PS: I'm not interested in hearing about how I shouldn't be in my
53-25...