Achilles injury

In article <[email hidden]>, Fredric Altman

Quoted message said:

I've been running for a year and training for a marathon for the last two months. About a month
ago both my Achilles tendons began to hurt, two to three inches from the floor. I ran with it for
a few weeks, but have decided to quit running until they heal. I don't know if the training
schedule was too much for me or if the shoes contributed. In either case, the question is how many
days after the pain or discomfort is completely gone, should I start running again? I was running
18 miles one day and three five milers three days a week. How fast could I ramp back up to that
mileage?

Check out: google.com Groups google search: "ozzie gontang" achilles

Check out rwforums.rodale.comsearch.jspOpen ↗

text: achilles user name: ozzie gontang

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗ faqs.orgrunning faqOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Fredric Altman

Quoted message said:

I've been running for a year and training for a marathon for the last two months. About a month
ago both my Achilles tendons began to hurt, two to three inches from the floor. I ran with it for
a few weeks, but have decided to quit running until they heal. I don't know if the training
schedule was too much for me or if the shoes contributed. In either case, the question is how many
days after the pain or discomfort is completely gone, should I start running again? I was running
18 miles one day and three five milers three days a week. How fast could I ramp back up to that
mileage?

Also:

www.mindfulness.com/of1.asp

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗ faqs.orgrunning faqOpen ↗

In article said:

I've been running for a year and training for a marathon for the last two months. About a month
ago both my Achilles tendons began to hurt, two to three inches from the floor. I ran with it for
a few weeks, but have decided to quit running until they heal. I don't know if the training
schedule was too much for me or if the shoes contributed. In either case, the question is how many
days after the pain or discomfort is completely gone, should I start running again? I was

The discomfort is greatest just after you get out of bed. If you want to wait until this is
*completely* gone, you could be waiting a very long time. Your best bet is to wait until you can run
without discomfort. This could be anything from a couple of weeks to a month. It's easy to tell if
you can run without discomfort, since the sensation is strongest at the start of the run.

The most common causes of achilles tendon problems are running fast and running long, in that order,
and these are the two things that will aggravate the injury most.

Quoted message said:

running 18 miles one day and three five milers three days a week. How fast could I ramp back up to
that mileage?

My observation with achilles tendon problems is that even when you do return to training, you need
to be on a reduced schedule (less long runs, less speed or both) for some time. Since it's going
to be sore when you get out of bed even after it you return to training running, pay careful
attention to how it feels when you get out of bed. You know you've pushed a little hard if it's
unusually sore.

It's hard to say how long it will take before you can return to your training schedule. Given what
you've said about your training schedule -- one thing that I'd recommend is reducing frequency of
long runs -- you don't need an 18 miler every week. A 12 miler every week and a long run (18-22
miles) every two or three weeks should be plenty.

Enough of this -- some good news: both my best performances came after I'd been forced to reduce
training because of a "setback". In one case, I'd averaged only about 20 miles/week in the last few
months before the race. When you're overtrained -- and when you're injured you probably are -- a
little rest followed by less training may actually be *good*, even *optimal* for your performance.
It's tempting to think that if you'd been able to train 150% the whole way it would be better -- but
the high volume of training only works if your body can adapt to the stress, otherwise it does more
harm than good.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Fredric Altman said:

I've been running for a year and training for a marathon for the last two months. About a month ago
both my Achilles tendons began to hurt, two to three inches from the floor. I ran with it for a few
weeks, but have decided to quit running until they heal. I don't know if the training schedule was
too much for me or if the shoes contributed. In either case, the question is how many days after
the pain or discomfort is completely gone, should I start running again? I was running 18 miles one
day and three five milers three days a week. How fast could I ramp back up to that mileage?

First trash the shoes, they are either nikes, or they are worn out. Get new ones, then try a few
low-mileage runs (low in comparison to what you are doing now) and see how it feels. Then you
decide, or re=ask your question. Cheers! TheBillRodgers

Fredric Altman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've been running for a year and training for a marathon for the last two months. About a month
ago both my Achilles tendons began to hurt, two to three inches from the floor. I ran with it for
a few weeks, but have decided to quit running until they heal. I don't know if the training
schedule was too much for me or if the shoes contributed. In either case, the question is how many
days after the pain or discomfort is completely gone, should I start running again? I was running
18 miles one day and three five milers three days a week. How fast could I ramp back up to that
mileage?

Already some good suggestions here, so I'll just throw in some additional comments:

Achilles tendon problems that low down tend to heal slowly because the blood flow there isn't great
and because the healing process can leave adhesions between fibres in its wake. To promote healing,
first make sure that any immediate inflammation has subsided. Use an antiinflammatory and ice until
the area does not feel noticably tender to moderate pressure and there is no evidence of elevated
temperature on the skin. You may already be at this point. After this phase is over, apply heat for
20 minutes at a time, two to three times per day. If you find that the problem persists, you may
need some massage to break apart adhesions that have formed. Look up "cross-fiber friction", or
consult a sports massage therapist. AT problems sometimes remain intransigent until some form of
massage therapy is used.

Obviously, you have to determine what caused the injury in order to avoid a relapse. AT is always a
stress injury: either from excessive force or from overuse. You did not mention speed or hill work,
so I'm thinking that's not a factor. The remaining possibilities are:

* overuse from excessive mileage. This is my guess.

* inappropriate running shoes or socks given your training surface. Roads are notorious, especially
rodas with crowns.

* worn shoes - if they have more than 400 miles on them, it may be time for a new pair.

* stride mechanics problems, possibly from trying to adopt a midfoot landing. Never change stride
mechanics on long run days. 5 miles is a long run from the standpoint of altered stride mechanics.

Good luck. Keep us informed as your recovery progresses.

Ozzie Gontang said:

Check out: google.com Groups google search: "ozzie gontang" achilles

Check out rwforums.rodaile.comsearch.jspOpen ↗

text: achilles user name: ozzie gontang

Could you be anymore of a pompous ass?

As usual this dork completely misses or discounts the most logical, obvious cause, your shoes. Try
giving informed advicve. He even hinted that his shoes were at fault.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In article said:

I've been running for a year and training for a marathon for the last two months. About a month
ago both my Achilles tendons began to hurt, two to three inches from the floor. I ran with it for
a few weeks, but have decided to quit running until they heal. I don't know if the training
schedule was too much for me or if the shoes contributed. In either case, the question is how
many days after the pain or discomfort is completely gone, should I start running again? I was

The discomfort is greatest just after you get out of bed. If you want to wait until this is
*completely* gone, you could be waiting a very long time. Your best bet is to wait until you can
run without discomfort. This could be anything from a couple of weeks to a month. It's easy to tell
if you can run without discomfort, since the sensation is strongest at the start of the run.

The most common causes of achilles tendon problems are running fast and running long, in that
order, and these are the two things that will aggravate the injury most.

Quoted message said:

running 18 miles one day and three five milers three days a week. How fast could I ramp back up
to that mileage?

My observation with achilles tendon problems is that even when you do return to training, you need
to be on a reduced schedule (less long runs, less speed or both) for some time. Since it's going
to be sore when you get out of bed even after it you return to training running, pay careful
attention to how it feels when you get out of bed. You know you've pushed a little hard if it's
unusually sore.

It's hard to say how long it will take before you can return to your training schedule. Given what
you've said about your training schedule -- one thing that I'd recommend is reducing frequency of
long runs -- you don't need an 18 miler every week. A 12 miler every week and a long run (18-22
miles) every two or three weeks should be plenty.

Enough of this -- some good news: both my best performances came after I'd been forced to reduce
training because of a "setback". In one case, I'd averaged only about 20 miles/week in the last few
months before the race. When you're overtrained -- and when you're injured you probably are -- a
little rest followed by less training may actually be *good*, even *optimal* for your performance.
It's tempting to think that if you'd been able to train 150% the whole way it would be better --
but the high volume of training only works if your body can adapt to the stress, otherwise it does
more harm than good.

Cheers,

Ozzie Gontang said:

Check out: google.com Groups google search: "ozzie gontang" achilles

Check out rwforums.rodale.comsearch.jspOpen ↗

Thank you.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

It's easy to tell if you can run without discomfort, since the sensation is strongest at the start
of the run.

Thanks. There is very little discomfort until I get a mile or two into a run, then, I get a fairly
sharp pain which lasts for about 30 or 40 strides, then it goes away and the rest of the run seems
fine. After I get home and am inactive for a while, when I stand and walk, the Achilles is very
tender. I use New Balance 854s and even though they are new, I am considering new ones (not 854s,
some other brand).

Ozzie Gontang said:

Check out: google.com Groups google search: "ozzie gontang" achilles

Check out rwforums.rodaile.comsearch.jspOpen ↗

text: achilles user name: ozzie gontang

Could you be anymore of a pompous ass?

As usual this dork completely misses or discounts the most logical, obvious cause, your shoes. Try
giving informed advicve. He even hinted that his shoes were at fault.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In article said:

I've been running for a year and training for a marathon for the last two months. About a month
ago both my Achilles tendons began to hurt, two to three inches from the floor. I ran with it for
a few weeks, but have decided to quit running until they heal. I don't know if the training
schedule was too much for me or if the shoes contributed. In either case, the question is how
many days after the pain or discomfort is completely gone, should I start running again? I was

The discomfort is greatest just after you get out of bed. If you want to wait until this is
*completely* gone, you could be waiting a very long time. Your best bet is to wait until you can
run without discomfort. This could be anything from a couple of weeks to a month. It's easy to tell
if you can run without discomfort, since the sensation is strongest at the start of the run.

The most common causes of achilles tendon problems are running fast and running long, in that
order, and these are the two things that will aggravate the injury most.

Quoted message said:

running 18 miles one day and three five milers three days a week. How fast could I ramp back up
to that mileage?

My observation with achilles tendon problems is that even when you do return to training, you need
to be on a reduced schedule (less long runs, less speed or both) for some time. Since it's going
to be sore when you get out of bed even after it you return to training running, pay careful
attention to how it feels when you get out of bed. You know you've pushed a little hard if it's
unusually sore.

It's hard to say how long it will take before you can return to your training schedule. Given what
you've said about your training schedule -- one thing that I'd recommend is reducing frequency of
long runs -- you don't need an 18 miler every week. A 12 miler every week and a long run (18-22
miles) every two or three weeks should be plenty.

Enough of this -- some good news: both my best performances came after I'd been forced to reduce
training because of a "setback". In one case, I'd averaged only about 20 miles/week in the last few
months before the race. When you're overtrained -- and when you're injured you probably are -- a
little rest followed by less training may actually be *good*, even *optimal* for your performance.
It's tempting to think that if you'd been able to train 150% the whole way it would be better --
but the high volume of training only works if your body can adapt to the stress, otherwise it does
more harm than good.

Cheers,

Ozzie Gontang said:

Check out: google.com Groups google search: "ozzie gontang" achilles

Check out rwforums.rodale.comsearch.jspOpen ↗

Thank you.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

It's easy to tell if you can run without discomfort, since the sensation is strongest at the start
of the run.

Thanks. There is very little discomfort until I get a mile or two into a run, then, I get a fairly
sharp pain which lasts for about 30 or 40 strides, then it goes away and the rest of the run seems
fine. After I get home and am inactive for a while, when I stand and walk, the Achilles is very
tender. I use New Balance 854s and even though they are new, I am considering new ones (not 854s,
some other brand).

(Kerry Wilson) said:

Achilles tendon problems that low down tend to heal slowly because the blood flow there isn't great
and because the healing process can leave adhesions between fibres in its wake. To promote healing,
first make sure that any immediate inflammation has subsided. Use an antiinflammatory and ice until
the area does not feel noticably tender to moderate pressure and there is no evidence of elevated
temperature on the skin. You may already be at this point. After this phase is over, apply heat for
20 minutes at a time, two to three times per day. If you find that the problem persists, you may
need some massage to break apart adhesions that have formed. Look up "cross-fiber friction", or
consult a sports massage therapist. AT problems sometimes remain intransigent until some form of
massage therapy is used.

Obviously, you have to determine what caused the injury in order to avoid a relapse. AT is always a
stress injury: either from excessive force or from overuse. You did not mention speed or hill work,
so I'm thinking that's not a factor. The remaining possibilities are:

* overuse from excessive mileage. This is my guess.

* inappropriate running shoes or socks given your training surface. Roads are notorious, especially
rodas with crowns.

* worn shoes - if they have more than 400 miles on them, it may be time for a new pair.

* stride mechanics problems, possibly from trying to adopt a midfoot landing. Never change stride
mechanics on long run days. 5 miles is a long run from the standpoint of altered stride
mechanics.

I thought I was feeling normal yesterday, but I still feel it a little today. When I began to feel
the problem, I was into this marathon schedule about a month and into my current pair of shoes at
about 400 miiles, so it could be either or both. I have not done any speed work or hills in many
months. I've never tried to change stride, just been using what came naturally. I'm a fairly heavy
heel striker, mild pronator.

(Kerry Wilson) said:

Achilles tendon problems that low down tend to heal slowly because the blood flow there isn't great
and because the healing process can leave adhesions between fibres in its wake. To promote healing,
first make sure that any immediate inflammation has subsided. Use an antiinflammatory and ice until
the area does not feel noticably tender to moderate pressure and there is no evidence of elevated
temperature on the skin. You may already be at this point. After this phase is over, apply heat for
20 minutes at a time, two to three times per day. If you find that the problem persists, you may
need some massage to break apart adhesions that have formed. Look up "cross-fiber friction", or
consult a sports massage therapist. AT problems sometimes remain intransigent until some form of
massage therapy is used.

Obviously, you have to determine what caused the injury in order to avoid a relapse. AT is always a
stress injury: either from excessive force or from overuse. You did not mention speed or hill work,
so I'm thinking that's not a factor. The remaining possibilities are:

* overuse from excessive mileage. This is my guess.

* inappropriate running shoes or socks given your training surface. Roads are notorious, especially
rodas with crowns.

* worn shoes - if they have more than 400 miles on them, it may be time for a new pair.

* stride mechanics problems, possibly from trying to adopt a midfoot landing. Never change stride
mechanics on long run days. 5 miles is a long run from the standpoint of altered stride
mechanics.

I thought I was feeling normal yesterday, but I still feel it a little today. When I began to feel
the problem, I was into this marathon schedule about a month and into my current pair of shoes at
about 400 miiles, so it could be either or both. I have not done any speed work or hills in many
months. I've never tried to change stride, just been using what came naturally. I'm a fairly heavy
heel striker, mild pronator.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Could you be anymore of a pompous ass?

Have to agree with you on that one, Wobbot.

Roger.

In article said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

It's easy to tell if you can run without discomfort, since the sensation is strongest at the
start of the run.

Thanks. There is very little discomfort until I get a mile or two into a run, then, I get a fairly
sharp pain which lasts for about 30 or 40 strides, then it goes away and the rest of the run seems
fine. After I

This is normal. Be careful -- one of the bad things about achilles tendonitis is that (unlike many
other injuries) you can painlessly do yourself a lot of harm. I'd suggest taking a week layoff and
cross training through that, then attempt an easy return to training. Complete rest is a bitter pill
to swallow when you're training for a big race, but one to two weeks rest will not hurt your
performance at all, especially if it's preceded by overtraining.

Quoted message said:

get home and am inactive for a while, when I stand and walk, the Achilles is very tender.

Yep.

Quoted message said:

I use New Balance 854s and even though they are new, I am considering new ones (not 854s, some
other brand).

The simplest and most effective change to footwear would be to use heel inserts. Some suggest these
shouldn't be too soft. It actually doesn't matter -- whether the inserts are soft or hard, they will
result in less stress on the tendon. However, a firmer insert will provide slightly more elevation
because it doesn't compress as much when you run.

HOWEVER -- everyone blames their footwear for their injuries. You also need to re-examine your
training. Have you identified any training errors that may have contributed to the injury ? The
obvious ones are:

(1) too much speed work
(2) running too fast during training (training pace should be 30-60sec/mile slower than
marathon pace)
(3) increasing distance too rapidly (10% rule -- avoid increasing mialge by more than 10%
every 3 weeks)
(4) increasing the length of your long runs too quickly
(5) over-racing (same as too much speed work)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Fredric Altman said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

It's easy to tell if you can run without discomfort, since the sensation is strongest at the
start of the run.

Thanks. There is very little discomfort until I get a mile or two into a run, then, I get a fairly
sharp pain which lasts for about 30 or 40 strides, then it goes away and the rest of the run seems
fine. After I get home and am inactive for a while, when I stand and walk, the Achilles is very
tender. I use New Balance 854s and even though they are new, I am considering new ones (not 854s,
some other brand).

Defeniatly get a new brand.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Could you be anymore of a pompous ass?

Have to agree with you on that one, Wobbot.

Roger.