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Accidents... who needs 'em!

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UK and Europe
Published
3 June 2004
Last activity
7 June 2004
Original author
R Lucas
Posts
33
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  1. My hat goes off to those people who've never had a crash in
    many years of cycling.

    I'm coming up to three years of cycling around London and
    Monday had my third and worst crash yet. Now the first two,
    with hind sight and a bit more experience, I probably could
    have ridden a bit more defensively and saved myself.
    Although when people aren't indiciating I don't feel like
    I'm particularly at fault.

    The scary thing this time is that I don't think there was
    anything I could have done to avoid it. Effectively the
    car came from behind and attempted to exit the road by
    driving over me. A split second assumption that I too was
    exiting and a brief distraction by the kids in the back
    and it was all over.

    A few scratches and a severly sprained wrist for me. Some
    torn bar tape and a scratched de-railer for the bike (should
    I get this checked out? It seems to be changing fine without
    any adjustment so I assume it's alright.)

    Could have been worse... but Monday would have been so much
    nicer if I had actually made it to the station so I could
    get out of London for a three hour ride instead of sitting
    in a hospital for two hours.

    I still love riding and can't wait to get back out there.
    But it does take a bit of the edge off things and it doesn't
    do anything to convince the girlfriend that cycling
    everywhere is a good idea.

    Careful out there.

    Ray

    PS Before anyone rips into the driver too much, obviously
    I'm not happy about what happened, but I think he was
    just as shaken up as I was. He took me and the bike home,
    then took me to the hospital, then WAITED at the hospital
    with me, took me home to meet the rest of the family, and
    only then took me home.

    PP The helmet didn't save my life, but it appears to have
    taken a few scratches for me. 🙂

  2. "R Lucas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The scary thing this time is that I don't think there was
    anything I could have done to avoid it. Effectively the
    car came from behind and attempted to exit the road by
    driving over me. A split second assumption that I too was
    exiting and a brief distraction by the kids in the back
    and it was all over.

    Bad luck.

    One suggestion : In this situation, riding further to the
    right (primary position - see cyclecraft - do you have a
    copy/have you read it?) could have helped - you become more
    obviously something they have to think about to avoid, so
    they will do. You want to become more of a problem than the
    kids in the back, so their attention goes to you.

    cheers, clive

  3. "R Lucas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    ...... The scary thing this time is that I don't think
    there was anything I could have done to avoid it.
    Effectively the car came from behind and attempted to exit
    the road by driving over me. A split second assumption
    that I too was exiting and a brief distraction by the kids
    in the back and it was all over.......

    This sounds like a typical type of situation which can only
    be avoided by ensuring that as you approach a left hand exit
    that you keep well centred in your lane, or to the right of
    your lane if there are 2 lanes in your direction, to make it
    clear you are going straight on. Often the sound of the cars
    engine is a dead giveaway as to what it's likely to do. Even
    if you *are* going left you do not want to be overtaken
    actually on the turn as you will almost certainly get
    squashed against the kerb if that happens.

  4. "R Lucas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:


    I still love riding and can't wait to get back out there.
    But it does take a bit of the edge off things and it
    doesn't do anything to convince the girlfriend that
    cycling everywhere is a good idea.

    Not another one ;-( Where's Wafflycat with her soothing
    balm when you need her? I've only had one crash when my
    front wheel slipped on roundabout diesel. I could have had
    loads with cars, but so far have managed to spot the
    hazards and taken avoiding action.

    --
    Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W
    simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.net

  5. On 3 Jun 2004 08:26:40 -0700, [email hidden] (R Lucas)

    Quoted message said:


    PS Before anyone rips into the driver too much, obviously
    I'm not happy about what happened, but I think he was
    just as shaken up as I was. He took me and the bike
    home, then took me to the hospital, then WAITED at the
    hospital with me, took me home to meet the rest of the
    family, and only then took me home.

    That's the thing about driving. You don't actually need a
    recklessly evil [censored] behind the wheel to kill you. Just
    your average bloke slightly distracted or in a hurry and
    you've got a killer.

    If it was only the guys at the end of the bell curves of
    either evilness or driving skill that killed, I wouldn't be
    quite so anti-car.

  6. Not Responding said:

    That's the thing about driving. You don't actually need a
    recklessly evil [censored] behind the wheel to kill you. Just
    your average bloke slightly distracted or in a hurry and
    you've got a killer.

    How's progress on your recovery & claim? Has Nicole
    conceded yet?
    --

    Cheers,

    Al

  7. In message <40bf7761$0$539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-
    reader02.plus.net>, richard <[email hidden]>
    writes

    Quoted message said:

    I get buzzed, cut up, abused, beeped,

    Tell me about it.

    On bank holiday Monday I was in the right hand lane on
    Victoria Street cycling toward Parliament Square. On my left
    was a bus moving about the same speed - we'd both set off
    from a set of lights at the same moment. However, directly
    behind me was a ***** in a Smart car who couldn't wait and
    started sounding his horn - I didn't know what he expected
    me to do as he was very close behind and the bus wasn't
    going very fast (it was coming up to another bus stop).

    Made me very cross. Eventually I was able to move to the
    left and he passed, but all I did was shout loudly at him
    what a ***** he was. Seconds later I sailed past him again
    where he was stopped at the next red lights.

    --
    congokid Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google
    congokid.comcongokid.com

  8. Clive George said:

    "R Lucas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The scary thing this time is that I don't think there was
    anything I could have done to avoid it. Effectively the
    car came from behind and attempted to exit the road by
    driving over me. A split second assumption that I too was
    exiting and a brief distraction by the kids in the back
    and it was all over.

    Bad luck.

    One suggestion : In this situation, riding further to the
    right (primary position - see cyclecraft - do you have a
    copy/have you read it?) could have helped - you become
    more obviously something they have to think about to
    avoid, so they will do. You want to become more of a
    problem than the kids in the back, so their attention
    goes to you.

    I'm going through a chronic crisis of faith in Franklin. Mid
    February this year I was run over from behind by a lorry.
    Fractured clavicle which, 3 1/2 months later, looks like it
    won't heal. I was on the left wheel line of the centre lane
    of Euston Road approaching the underpass at the top of
    Tottenham Court Road. The b*st*rd tried to squeeze past
    anyway, nearly hit a white van on the other side and swerved
    back into me (as near as I can make out from his statement:
    "A white van cut me up and I swerved into the bus lane to
    avoid it" simply ain't true).

    Regardless of the shoulder pain, I've been back on the bike
    for about three weeks. Yesterday I stopped at traffic
    lights just as they turned red. Dead center of the road,
    just ahead of the ASL. The t*ssp*t in the car behind me
    drove straight into my right leg. Just enough to knock it
    out from under me, I held myself up by smacking my hand on
    his bonnet. What was going through his mind? He was turning
    left, so was he planning on driving straight through me?
    Needless to say the conversation was not a particularly
    useful exchange of information: "What are you doing? It's a
    *****y red light? What was I supposed to do?" "***k you,
    you ***king ***t". In retrospect, it's possible he didn't
    realise he had hit me and thought I'd launched an
    unprovoked attack on him. He's thus not only a discourteous
    driver but also an ignorant pillock.

    Over the last few months I've been watching other cyclists.
    The ones that do everything wrong seem to have no problem.
    Skulking in the gutter, edging along as close as possible to
    parked cars, cautiously running red lights. They don't
    travel at speed but they don't look particularly phased when
    they're cut up, have doors opened, have drivers turn right
    across segregated cycle lanes, &c. By jumping red lights,
    they make a similar average speed to me anyway.

    I cruise between 15 and 20 mph between lights. I ride far
    enough from parked cars to avoid doors since I can't stop in
    time at that speed. I occupy the center of the road
    approaching pinch points to discourage people from squeezing
    past. I ride out from left hand turns to avoid situation
    similar to the OP's. I usually signal. I stop for red
    lights. I avoid shared cycle paths. I get buzzed, cut up,
    abused, beeped, suggestions for alternative recreations, and
    frequently have to take violently evasive action. All in
    all, it's more aggravating and dangerous than cathartic or
    enjoyable most of the time.

    So is this just bad luck, have I misinterpreted the book, or
    should I accept that expecting to maintain a reasonable pace
    on bike is a lofty ideal, but one that should never be
    seriously entertained?

    Ah, it makes no difference I guess. I'm not going to give up
    cycling. However, all my experiences suggest the divine word
    of Franklin is just plain wrong. Anyway, it feels good to
    get all that out... thanks for listening (or not :-)

    richard

  9. Simon Mason [email hidden] opined the
    following...

    Quoted message said:

    Not another one ;-( Where's Wafflycat with her soothing
    balm when you n=


    eed

    Quoted message said:

    her? I've only had one crash when my front wheel slipped
    on roundabout diesel.=


    I

    Quoted message said:

    could have had loads with cars, but so far have managed to
    spot the hazar=


    ds

    Quoted message said:

    and taken avoiding action.

    Me too. The only times I've ever come off my bike have been
    entirely my=20 fault. (Riding along with =A33 in 1p coins in
    a plastic bag hung off the=20 drop handlebars... you can
    probably guess!)

    That said, the number of near misses I've had have all been
    car=20 inflicted. This number has reduced since I started
    taking control of=20 lanes effectively, but has included a
    taxi to my left making a U-turn=20 without warning, car
    doors opened without looking, and the idiot who=20 turned
    across in front of me close enough to make me lock my rear
    wheel=20 on an uphill road.

    Thinking about it, one "unintentional dismount" has occurred
    that wasn't=20 my fault, but that involved a very apologetic
    pedestrian.

    Jon

  10. "congokid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Made me very cross. Eventually I was able to move to the
    left and he passed, but all I did was shout loudly at him
    what a ***** he was. Seconds later I sailed past him again
    where he was stopped at the next red lights.

    With cycling there is no point in getting cross, and you
    just have to accept there will be motorists that do
    dangerous and daft things. I used to get cross, but it just
    ended up causing me to put myself at more risk, so if you
    get someone annoying like the smart driver then just pretend
    you have not noticed him or give a cheery wave to really
    wind him up!

  11. Al C-F said:
    Not Responding said:

    That's the thing about driving. You don't actually need a
    recklessly evil [censored] behind the wheel to kill you. Just
    your average bloke slightly distracted or in a hurry and
    you've got a killer.

    How's progress on your recovery & claim? Has Nicole
    conceded yet?

    On the physical front, it's proving to be very slow
    progress. Everything below the elbow works but there's
    simply no strength from the shoulder. I can *move* it a bit
    but there's no power at all to speak of. It's also still
    semi dislocated. I'm told it's all to do with buggered up
    nerves so surgery wouldn't help.

    Apart from a one handed trip for 100 metres or so in a dead
    straight line across the lawn, I haven't been back on a
    bike. In fact, I don't actually *own* a bike right now.
    Unless you count the aluminium pending recycling that I'm
    hanging on to in case a loss adjuster ever wants to see it.

    I might buy a bike on June 11th as a sort of reward to
    myself for working my nuts off over the past few weeks. I'm
    resigning myself to learning how to ride one handed for a
    while at least. Sorry recumbenteers, but I've decided I'm
    just too shy and retiring for one of those. The shame of it,
    I'm thinking of getting a hub geared MTB from halfords.

    On the insurance front; that's slow as well. I've been
    advised not to have a final medical done until a year from
    the crash; to make sure the lasting damage is reflected in
    the claim. To be honest, I'm pretty much writing off any
    thoughts of insurance pay outs. The bloke who answers the
    legal questions in Cycle is handling my case (so I'm hoping
    he knows his stuff better than most) and if he comes up
    trumps, so be it.

    There's not really much of a plus side to the whole affair
    beyond the fact that it prompted me to sell the car.

  12. "richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm going through a chronic crisis of faith in Franklin.
    Mid February this year I was run over from behind by a
    lorry. Fractured clavicle which, 3 1/2 months later, looks
    like it won't heal. I was on the left wheel line of the
    centre lane of Euston Road approaching the underpass at
    the top of Tottenham Court Road. The b*st*rd tried to
    squeeze past anyway, nearly hit a white van on the other
    side and swerved back into me (as near as I can make out
    from his statement: "A white van cut me up and I swerved
    into the bus lane to avoid it" simply ain't true).

    Regardless of the shoulder pain, I've been back on the
    bike for about three weeks. Yesterday I stopped at traffic
    lights just as they turned red. Dead center of the road,
    just ahead of the ASL. The t*ssp*t in the car behind me
    drove straight into my right leg. Just enough to knock it
    out from under me, I held myself up by smacking my hand on
    his bonnet.....

    This sounds like damned bad luck having 2 bad accidents in
    just a few months! I used to cycle along Euston Road and
    underpass quite a few times when I was a student many years
    ago lodging at international student house in great portland
    street and I remember the lanes were quite narrow, so there
    is no way you would want a lorry trying to share a traffic
    lane with you! I get "squeezed" by vehicles on odd
    occasions, but I just accept that in any confrontational
    situation I will come off worse so will just get out of
    their way if I sense they mean trouble, and I have seen some
    cyclists doing things like banging on vehicles etc but that
    just looks too risky and it may be annoying to let them get
    away with it but that's better than avoiding injury, but I
    guess sometimes you get some pshycho driver (perhaps like
    that lorry) who is determined to kill someone, but luckily
    touch wood I have not had this yet.

    As regards stopping at reds, I assume there is this
    unwritten rule amoungst many motorists that a red light
    means "floor it" for the first few seconds of red so I tend
    to have a check that there is no one right behind me when I
    stop at a red, (at least if I can hear someone behind me)
    and am prepared to keep going if there's someone tailgating
    me and I'd rather run a red than get squashed.

  13. "richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Clive George said:

    "R Lucas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The scary thing this time is that I don't think there
    was anything I could have done to avoid it. Effectively
    the car came from behind and attempted to exit the road
    by driving over me. A split second assumption that I too
    was exiting and a brief distraction by the kids in the
    back and it was all over.

    Bad luck.

    One suggestion : In this situation, riding further to
    the right (primary position - see cyclecraft - do you
    have a copy/have you read it?) could


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    helped - you become more obviously something they have
    to think about to avoid, so they will do. You want to
    become more of a problem than the


    kids

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in the back, so their attention goes to you.

    I'm going through a chronic crisis of faith in Franklin.

    I agree. I find good drivers (the majority to be fair,
    here in Suffolk) will wait patiently behind you whether
    you're 2' from the kerb or well out as Franklin and his
    believers here will recommend. Bad drivers will try to
    squeeze past anyway. The worst will be on a mobile or will
    have some other distraction or may even be tired or drunk.
    Franklin will have you right in their firing line and you
    could pay a Darwinian price. Keep as far to the left as
    reasonable and with luck the least attentive idiot will
    not hit you. It's all about keeping the target small and
    out of the line of fire.

    There are, of course some very specific occasions when going
    down the middle of the lane is correct, like going straight
    on or right at junctions/roundabouts and when you know you
    can control traffic behind for your safety. This does not
    apply to open roads where there are massive speed
    differentials and an innatentive driver only has a second or
    two to take appropriate action. They may see you ahead, but
    not judge quite how far out you are and assume you are a
    normal distance from the kerb. If they don't slow down in
    time they could hit you.

    I'm afraid Franklin gives far too much credit to the worst
    1% of drivers - and it's one of those that's going to hit
    you, not the nice ones that have their behaviour modified by
    your assertive positioning...

    I also believe there are plenty of drivers out there that
    will pass you leaving a reasonable distance from the
    kerb. If you are to the right of that gap that's your
    choice, so in their view they are justified in passing
    with inches to spare.

    My 2p

    Mark

  14. In "]news:[email hidden],
    MarkK <[email hidden]> typed:

    Quoted message said:

    I'm afraid Franklin gives far too much credit to the worst
    1% of drivers - and it's one of those that's going to hit
    you, not the nice ones that have their behaviour modified
    by your assertive positioning...

    Franklin's thesis is the entirely believable one that no
    one's stupid enough to drive straight into something, which
    I believe holds a lot of weight. Or at least that's less
    likely than someone pulling left by accident when they've
    not had to move out. Also, a fair amount of vehicles (buses,
    vans) simply don't have room on their left for a bike to
    fit, full stop. I'd rather they noticed me by being in their
    line of sight.

    Quoted message said:

    I also believe there are plenty of drivers out there that
    will pass you leaving a reasonable distance from the
    kerb. If you are to the right of that gap that's your
    choice, so in their view they are justified in passing
    with inches to spare.

    Not found this in my experience.

    A

  15. "MarkK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I agree. I find good drivers (the majority to be fair,
    here in Suffolk)


    will

    Quoted message said:

    wait patiently behind you whether you're 2' from the kerb
    or well out as Franklin and his believers here will
    recommend. Bad drivers will try to squeeze past anyway.
    The worst will be on a mobile or will have some other
    distraction or may even be tired or drunk. Franklin will
    have you right in their firing line and you could pay a
    Darwinian price. Keep as far to the left as reasonable and
    with luck the least attentive idiot will not hit


    you.

    Quoted message said:

    It's all about keeping the target small and out of the
    line of fire.

    The trouble is that traffic approaching from behind cannot
    be seen by the cyclist which makes them fear it more, but
    statistics show that this is a low risk to the cyclist
    compared with other traffic, like the ones who will come
    straight out of a side road and wipe you out without even
    seeing you first.

    The main risk with following traffic would be most likely
    the type of cyclist who wobbles about unpredicably or the
    type that swerves out round parked cars like I see many do.

  16. richard said:

    I'm going through a chronic crisis of faith in Franklin.

    I don't think Franklin allowed for the fact that it now only
    costs £83 in fines to mow someone down in a car, even if you
    have no insurance or MOT.

  17. Ambrose Nankivell said:

    In news:40bfb37e$0$25320$cc9e4d1f@news-
    text.dial.pipex.com, MarkK <[email hidden]> typed:

    Quoted message said:

    I'm afraid Franklin gives far too much credit to the worst
    1% of drivers - and it's one of those that's going to hit
    you, not the nice ones that have their behaviour modified
    by your assertive positioning...

    Franklin's thesis is the entirely believable one that no
    one's stupid enough to drive straight into something,
    which I believe holds a lot of weight. Or at least that's
    less likely than someone pulling left by accident when
    they've not had to move out. Also, a fair amount of
    vehicles (buses, vans) simply don't have room on their
    left for a bike to fit, full stop. I'd rather they noticed
    me by being in their line of sight.

    Franklin suggests putting yourself exactly in the drivers
    path. His advice relies on drivers taking appropriate action
    to avoid running into you. There is clear evidence that many
    drivers are not capable of making such judgements.
    Regardless of whether they see you, they will attempt to
    overtake, pull out or turn across you in an unsafe manner.
    The problem often occurs because you force them to take
    "evasive" action to avoid you.

    On the other hand, you can remove yourself from the
    immediate path of 95% of the drivers. That reduces the
    burden on drivers to avoid you, since if they continue their
    usual path, there is no conflict.

    Obviously neither way is 100% safe. Franklin claims the
    first method has better odds. My experience suggests the
    second does, at the expense of making a reasonable rate
    of progress.

    Since I cycle at city traffic speeds for the most part, I
    mix it in the middle of the car lane most of the time. I
    can't say I feel "safer", "more easily seen", or "treated as
    an equal road user" when doing this.

    On the rare occasions I have been tootling along at <7mph in
    the gutter, I generally feel a lot less under threat, have
    ample time to avoid peds, cars crossing, &c. OTOH it takes
    forever to get anywhere.

    r

  18. in message <[email hidden]>, MarkK

    (') said:

    I agree. I find good drivers (the majority to be fair,
    here in Suffolk) will wait patiently behind you whether
    you're 2' from the kerb or well out as Franklin and his
    believers here will recommend. Bad drivers will try to
    squeeze past anyway. The worst will be on a mobile or will
    have some other distraction or may even be tired or drunk.
    Franklin will have you right in their firing line and you
    could pay a Darwinian price. Keep as far to the left as
    reasonable and with luck the least attentive idiot will
    not hit you. It's all about keeping the target small and
    out of the line of fire.

    I believe, on the basis of a lot of years of experience,
    that you're dangerously wrong. In the years when I used to
    commute along an unlimited-speed section of the A6 in
    Lancashire (which I did with no ill effect for eight years)
    I used to ride as though I was driving something as big and
    solid as a Volvo, being extremely assertive about my road
    position and road space. That's something I've learned, not
    from books but from experience. In 40 years of road cycling
    the only injury I've had was when, at age 12 or 13, I took a
    hump backed bridge too fast and didn't land in time to take
    the next bend. I fell off on the road once at age 16
    (excessive cornering speed in the wet). Since then, no
    accidents.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
    jasmine.org.uk~simon

    The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his
    mouth to change feet. ;; of me, by a 'friend'

  19. "Adrian Boliston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    With cycling there is no point in getting cross, and you
    just have to


    accept

    Quoted message said:

    there will be motorists that do dangerous and daft things.
    I used to get cross, but it just ended up causing me to
    put myself at more risk, so if


    you

    Quoted message said:

    get someone annoying like the smart driver then just
    pretend you have not noticed him or give a cheery wave to
    really wind him up!

    That's right. A lot of people want to provoke you into a
    reaction; by ignoring them you wind them up even more. Some
    kids decided to chuck stones at me as I rode by on an cycle
    track the other day. None hit me and I didn't even turn
    around, which must have annoyed them.

    --
    Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W
    simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.net

  20. richard said:

    On the rare occasions I have been tootling along at <7mph
    in the gutter, I generally feel a lot less under threat,
    have ample time to avoid peds, cars crossing, &c. OTOH it
    takes forever to get anywhere.

    And increasing risk of punctures from the general [censored],
    potholes, drains, etc, that reside there.

    Another Richard.

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