Accident/Insurance advice

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by marcusl

<snip> Bummer dude.. nice to hear you are okay though. I can't help with
the insurance because all the people that've hit me have [censored]
before I could have words and they've not been real serious anyway.

Quoted message said:

My main concern is with the frame, whether there is more than >just
cosmetic damage (of which there is hardly any)...how do >you go about
checking that out? Will a shop mechanic be able to >do it?? or would a
frame builder be better??

Hitting front on, a likely place to spot damage will be at the headtube
where the top and downtubes are joined to it.

Look around _all_ the joins for very fine lines that aren't a weld seam
- these could be cracked tubes. Look for crumpled paint, which can also
indicate a squished tube.

Check the headset and make sure there's no movement within the frame, an
indication of headtube ovalising.

Check the paintjob all over for scratches, etc. - These could indicate
other places damage has occured.

Suzyj will have some suggestions for any funkier tests I'm sure - no
doubt involving a custom built, custom painted, one-size-fits-all, fully
automatic, NASA-approved frame jig. ;-)

Good luck with your insurance.

hippy

--

Whoa! Great to hear your OK

Re the insurance. It seems inane that the onus is on him to have to make
a claim before they will act. I guess your note of damages will hurry
him along in that regard. make sure you cc thatletter to your insurer
and the Police too. Get a copy of their report so they cant blind you
with middle-management. If ,like most insurers' internal policies, and
they reject the claim out-of-hand first time round (they do this to weed
out half-arsed claims or the naive), dont be put off! You have been
wronged. You deserve recompence

As for the bike. Lay it down in the driveway and drive over it a few
times so you can claim for a completely new bike :eek: Its more than
likely if you hit hard enough for thr fork race to snap that there is
some crimping around the head-tube anyway

I have often dabbled with the idea of insurance for my bikes but the
cost is ridiculous. the BV recommended policy is ridiculous and requires
you to change your house policy to them

Hope your spinning again soon

--

marcusl said:

I was involved in a bit of a bingle with a 4wd on Monday night.
[snip]
marcus
PS. sorry for the long winded post
PP What irks me the most is that i miss my bike and miss riding and
it's only been a couple of days and that any 'replacment' won't be
the same. This was THE one, it fit me like a glove and was MY bike.
Crazy the attachements we get to inanimate objects!!

Sorry to hear about the accident and I'm glad you're ok.

I once worked on a research project for an insurance company, examining
accident claims. My advice (fwiw) is to get your quote but also get an
assessment of the pre-accident value of your bike. If it is more costly
to restore your bike to its pre-accident condition, it will be cheaper
for the insurance company to cut you a cheque (as well as being the
correct settlement for the damage to your property).

You'll (probably) need to have a qualified insurance assessor to do that
for you - a quote for a new bike from the shop won't do.

Once you have the information, a letter of demand is a pretty powerful
tool for making the other insurance company move. From the research I
had done, the letter needs to be addressed to the insured, not the
company. After all, the insured is liable, whilst the insurer has
entered a separate arrangement to indemnify the insured.

Good luck,

Ritch.

PS. F***ing 4wds!

--

Originally posted by marcusl:

Quoted message said:

I was involved in a bit of a bingle with a 4wd on Monday night.

Bummer. Hope you recover quickly.

Quoted message said:

My main concern is with the frame, whether there is more than just
cosmetic damage (of which there is hardly any)...how do you go about
checking that out? Will a shop mechanic be able to do it?? or would a
frame builder be better??

There are some checks you can do yourself. Firstly, take the back
wheel out, and run some string from the inside face of one dropout,
forward round the headtube, and back to the inside face of the other
dropout. If the seat tube isn't in the middle, then the front end has
been bent sideways.

Check just back from the head tube, underneath the down tube, for any
wrinkling or cracked paint. This is the most stressed area when you hit
something (especially if you hit something hard enough to bend your
forks). Basically, the forks act as a lever, and push the bottom of the
head tube back.

Also check the back of the headtube at the bottom for signs of
paint chips.

You can check the angle of the head tube wrt the top tube using a
straightedge and precise protractor. This would be a good thing to do,
but would mean you'd have to take the headset cups out.

Take it to a reputable shop, and make sure they know that it's going to
be paid for by insurance.

Hope it all works out for you.

Regards,

Suzy

--

hippy said:

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by marcusl

<snip> Bummer dude.. nice to hear you are okay though. I can't help with
the insurance because all the people that've hit me have [censored]
before I could have words and they've not been real serious anyway.

After he finished telling me he didn't see me he then said he was very
scared for me, his girlfriend was very shaky too. At first i was
absolutely P'd off, (threw my bike onto the grass after i picked myself
up, angry at him BUT also at myself for letting it happen)....but he
seemed genuinely concerned, let me use his mobile to call my wife. And
he has been pretty good to talk to since then. when i was waiting for
him to cross the road to me, i was building myself up for a
confrontation (which i generally avoid) but he was very
apologetic....still didn't think it was his fault though....cop told him
to reread the road rules!

I'll give the bike a look over (couldn't face looking at it last night)
Thanks hippy... marcus

--

Marcus,
1) get a copy of the police report (they don't automatically give it to you
in my experience
2) I suggest you get a bike shop that also builds frames to assess the bike,
eg Hillman, Cecil Walker, there must be several others. That way they can
put the frame in a jig to check for straightness etc as well as quote the
various bits & pieces
3) Send the quote(s) with a letter of demand to the driver, and send a copy
to his insurer. As I understand it you demand from the driver and then he
can decide if he wants to involve his insurance by making the claim, or pay
from his own pocket.

If the driver is charged with not giving way etc (and you might encourage
the cops to do so) that should make your case convincing.

There must be a few consumer rights websites with sample letters of demand
for such things.

If you are a Bicycle Victoria member, contact them and they will help with
the letter etc and other advice. If you are not a member, I'd highly
recommend you join for the accident insurance (both medical, income &
damnage to other party coverage) and their advice and advocacy role in these
situations, especially if you are commuting often.
best of luck

flyingdutch said:

Whoa! Great to hear your OK
Re the insurance. It seems inane that the onus is on him to have to make
a claim before they will act. I guess your note of damages will hurry
him along in that regard. make sure you cc thatletter to your insurer
and the Police too. Get a copy of their report so they cant blind you
with middle-management. If ,like most insurers' internal policies, and
they reject the claim out-of-hand first time round (they do this to weed
out half-arsed claims or the naive), dont be put off! You have been
wronged. You deserve recompence
As for the bike. Lay it down in the driveway and drive over it a few
times so you can claim for a completely new bike :eek: Its more than
likely if you hit hard enough for thr fork race to snap that there is
some crimping around the head-tube anyway
I have often dabbled with the idea of insurance for my bikes but the
cost is ridiculous. the BV recommended policy is ridiculous and requires
you to change your house policy to them
Hope your spinning again soon

Thanks flyingdutch - it'll be interesting to see how i go that first
ride....probably do me some good to have that little bit of fear maybe.
I think the idea of the letter of demand is for him to take to his
insurance company (if that's the way he wants to proceed) but if he
doesn't want to invlove insurance then it becomes a personal thing
between myself and him....and could end up in small claims court (or
something like that from what I've gleened) I defintley fit into the
naive category (when it comes to these matters), but am working on
fixing that!!

I have the COPS Event number (it's actually called that) and the officer
said that could be used for insurance purposes...they must be able to
access the police report...but yes wouldn't mind having a copy of it
myself! Not sure about 'my' insurer....i was a member of BNSW but it
lapsed a few months ago....had some personal accident insurance with
them.....as a bike user does my car insurance company care? guess i'll
have to give them a buzz....

I have thought about running the bike over in the driveway 🙂, but i
remeber when we had that huge hail storm here in Sydney and there were
people getting out there with golf balls in sock and all sorts putting
dents in their cars...trying to claim. Only to have the insurer almost
forensically examine the bloody things and find golf ball dimples in the
dents, socks fibres etc. 🙂

Cheers Marcus

--

marcusl <[email hidden]> wrote in news:NOpEc.51016
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Miracurously (sp?) the only
injuries i recieved were some sore and slightly swollen knees with some
skin off (i think from hitting the handle bars on the way over), a
bruised hip , plus shoulder and lats that feel like I've just done a
huge session at the gym

You seem to be worried mainly about the bike (I'd probably be the same),
but remember you have been injured and a course of physio or whatever
should also be part of the deal. Get yourself to a doctor NOW so he can say
you've done x, y & z to yourself. You can then claim for personal injury.

Graeme

ritcho said:

Sorry to hear about the accident and I'm glad you're ok.
I once worked on a research project for an insurance company, examining
accident claims. My advice (fwiw) is to get your quote but also get an
assessment of the pre-accident value of your bike. If it is more costly
to restore your bike to its pre-accident condition, it will be cheaper
for the insurance company to cut you a cheque (as well as being the
correct settlement for the damage to your property).
You'll (probably) need to have a qualified insurance assessor to do that
for you - a quote for a new bike from the shop won't do.
Once you have the information, a letter of demand is a pretty powerful
tool for making the other insurance company move. From the research I
had done, the letter needs to be addressed to the insured, not the
company. After all, the insured is liable, whilst the insurer has
entered a separate arrangement to indemnify the insured.
Good luck,
Ritch.
PS. F***ing 4wds!

How do you find a qualified insurance assessor for bicycles? Might give
BNSW a call they may know if there is one in Sydney.... How do you get a
pre-accident value assessment of your bike if it's not from a bike
shop...hmm....don't have the receipts...actually got it from my brother
in law who USED to run a bike shop on the Gold Coast for an extreme
discount ($700 instead of $1500) As for the letter, i read somewhere to
send it to both the insured and their insurer....it was actually his
dad's car and is probably insured thus....but i don't have his fathers
name.... Defintley more research required! In a way I'm kind of glad it
was a 4wd...if it had've been lower then i would have been catapulted
over the top and landed who knows how.... thanks for the advice marcus

--

Originally posted by marcusl

Quoted message said:

I was involved in a bit of a bingle with a 4wd on Monday night.

Glad you're not badly hurt.

Quoted message said:

...I slid side ways a bit.... Ended up rolling in midair and landing on
my side/back in the middle of the road with my bike beside me..... the
only injuries i recieved were some sore and slightly swollen knees with
some skin off (i think from hitting the handle bars on the way over), a
bruised hip ,......

After all that you may need to claim for damage to or replacement of
your helmet, gloves, riding clothes, back pack etc. Your losses aren't
limited to 'just' your bike.

Quoted message said:

...I was just wondering if anyone has any advice dealing with insurance
companies on this.

Put it all in writing!

Quoted message said:

...send a letter of demand to him personally with a quote for
repairs/replacement. If the letter goes ignored to send another giving
a time limit and advising that your going to commence legal
proceedings...and if that expires then to commence legal proceedings.

Do this when you have quote/s. Don't wait for the other party.

Quoted message said:

My main concern is with the frame, whether there is more than just
cosmetic damage (of which there is hardly any).

Get a quote for a custom replacement frame! 😉

--

Graeme said:

You seem to be worried mainly about the bike (I'd probably be the
same), but remember you have been injured and a course of physio or
whatever should also be part of the deal. Get yourself to a doctor NOW
so he can say you've done x, y & z to yourself. You can then claim for
personal injury.
Graeme

You sound like my wife 🙂 - which is a good thing as she's only
concerned for me...so it's nice to have your concern.... She didn't want
me to go to work the next day...after all i had the perfect excuse BUT
it's just not in my nature... I'll probably open a new kettle of
worms...but our society has become way too litigious anyway. Like these
guys that get drunk, break into a bar, get injured and then sue. For
F*&%'s sake take some responsibility for yourselves. There was no need
for a doctor/ambulance - so it would seem dishonest to me. If anything
I'm suffering more mental anguish from not being able to ride 🙂 I'm
just much happier if i'm riding. I get home from work on a high....but i
think i'll get over it 🙂 (when i get the bike back on the road!!)
Obviously if I'd broken anything, had any major grazes, bruising I'd
consider it....but like i said miracurously (for me and disappointingly
so for others that I've told about it - they want to see blood and
gore!)there is nothing like that.....

anyway have spoken to several people and for those that are
interested....here's what I've found out..... to get a copy of the
police report will cost $38 from the Freedom Of Information Insurance
Unit.... According to BNSW taking the bike to a reputable LBS for
assessment should be enough...have spoken to Clarence St and Renegade's
they seemed to know what they were talking about and have done it
before.....I'll probably speak to a BS who also build frames in NSW and
see what they've got to say....would appreciate their advice.

Having said all this about letters of demand etc. I think I'd like to
give the guy a chance to do the right thing before such heavy
handedness....ask him if he's prepared to compensate me OR if he wants
to use insurance etc and proceed that way. (rather than him suddenly
receiving such a demand/threat)

Thanks all for the advice and if you like i'll keep you posted on how
things proceed marcus

--

Good to hear you are OK.

When I had a similar accident the driver of the ute also expressed that he
hadn't seen me.
I then explained that I would have been worried if he had seen me and still
cut me off.

The driver just paid for all damage. I hope you are as lucky.

Cheers.

marcusl <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was involved in a bit of a bingle with a 4wd on Monday night.
Basically the guy pulled out of a side street to turn right onto the
street i was on, across in front of me just in time for me to plow into
him just behind the drivers door. I saw him going but as it was a
slight downhill i was getting along at about 40kph (i checked my
computer AFTER and it said 47kph was my max so far for the ride and as
this was the fastest section in the ride so far I'm assuming about 40)
and just did not have time to stop. Slammed on the brakes and just
remember thinking "F%@$ I am going to hit him!" Because he was slighty
turned and I slid side ways a bit it, I hit at an angle and not
directly into his side which i think saved me. After the intial impact
i must have slid along the side of his vehicle (putting a nice new dent
(with the bar ends i think) all the way along)and being spat out the
back end. Ended up rolling in midair and landing on my side/back in the
middle of the road with my bike beside me. Miracurously (sp?) the only
injuries i recieved were some sore and slightly swollen knees with some
skin off (i think from hitting the handle bars on the way over), a
bruised hip , plus shoulder and lats that feel like I've just done a
huge session at the gym. I consider myself VERY lucky!! The bike was
not so lucky....suspension forks snapped at the crown/arch (?) and the
front wheel bent back on itself, rim snapped and spokes that look like
spaghetti, and the disc is buckled (thank god for crumple zones, right
?? 🙂 ) Frame LOOKS straight, handle bars look fine and lights still
work!! And what was the first thing the guy said (all together now)
"Sorry mate - didn't see you" WTF??!! Didn't see me?!! I had twin
halogen headlights, bright orange jumper - there are street lights all
the way along??! Sentiments that were echoed by the cops when they
arrived. They gave him a bit of a serve about it because he didn't seem
to think it was his fault, he even asked the cop if it was because it
was a cyclist that he getting so much grief and that just set the cop
off again. I actually felt slightly sorry for the guy (only slightly)
because i know that i've been in the car before and have just not seen
another car/bus/bike on some occasion....but it was the feeling that he
didn't think he was to blame that extinguished that my feeling sorry
for him!! I sincerely hope he has learnt from this - I know i have!!
I've never had an accident of any sort in 13 yrs of driving. I've had
some close calls since i started commuting 3 days per week 2.5 years
ago, but i don't think i truly realise what fine line it is we walk
(drive/ride 🙂 ) when we're on the road - in any form of transport. I
just trusted other road users to do the right thing TOO much (looking
back now any amount of trust in other road users is too much!!) My wife
handled it fine until she came to pick me up and saw the condition of
the bike and i must admit a shiver goes up the spine when i look at my
poor bike. Anyway enough of the therapy session...I was just wondering
if anyone has any advice dealing with insurance companies on this. I've
contacted his insurance company and they've said that until he makes a
claim they're unable to help me and only then if he's at fault (which i
am pretty sure would be the result of the police report judging by what
was said at the scene) The advice I've recieved from NRMA (who i am
insured with for my car) and from his company is to get a quote (only
one required) and either wait for him to make a claim OR to send a
letter of demand to him personally with a quote for
repairs/replacement. If the letter goes ignored to send another giving
a time limit and advising that your going to commence legal
proceedings...and if that expires then to commence legal proceedings.
(i hope things don't get that far!!) As far as getting quotes i've
contacted some bike shops on this and they're more than willing to do
it, and that they'd get their mechanic (hopefully not some 18yo who
knows how to adjust gears/brakes and that's all) to inspect it and give
aquote. Some shops want a payment for this service which they'll take
from the price if i end up getting the bike from them. Fair enough
really (they have a business to run)but it means i don't want to have
to lug the bike to too many places and incur any cost my self (which i
really can't afford). My main concern is with the frame, whether there
is more than just cosmetic damage (of which there is hardly any)...how
do you go about checking that out? Will a shop mechanic be able to do
it?? or would a frame builder be better?? Any advice/experience would
be very much appreciated (what i've been receiving is skewed towards
cars it seems) I haven't got a regular LBS, am not a member of a BUG
and none of my mates ride....I lurk here on cyclingforums.com sometimes
and would appreciate a 'cyclists' point of view!

marcus

PS. sorry for the long winded post

PP What irks me the most is that i miss my bike and miss riding and
it's only been a couple of days and that any 'replacment' won't be
the same. This was THE one, it fit me like a glove and was MY bike.
Crazy the attachements we get to inanimate objects!!

--

marcusl <[email hidden]> wrote in news:EFsEc.37360$Io3.7562
@fe05.usenetserver.com:

Quoted message said:

You sound like my wife 🙂

....quick check.... Nope, I've got all the wrong bits to be anyone's wife
:-)

Graeme

Had an accident very similar to this riding along main road downhill about
40 km/h car drives staight into me from a side street. The lady was very
apologetic about it all agreeing to pay. So about 2 weeks later I give her
the bill then she starts crapping on the police said she didn't have to pay,
I must have pulled out from the footpath otherwise she would have seen me.
Tried ringing the ladys insurance and was told they wouldn't do anything
unless she lodged a claim. So I decided to let it go and just pay the
damages myself about $300. Around 3 weeks after getting my bike back the
frame snapped. So I took it to a bike shop and got a quote for a replacement
around $1000 then lodged a prelodgement notice which cost me $10 and can be
done online (here in SA).

About a week after putting the notice in her letterbox I had a call from her
insurance telling me they were liable and agreeing at first to only pay for
the repairs (becuase I rode it after the repairs they claimed the cracked
frame wasn't caused by the accident). It didn't take much to get them to
send an assessor around to look at the bike and he agreed to pay for a new
bike as well as a helmet and a few other damaged accessories. I'm probably
lucky she didn't agree to pay at first otherwise I would have ended up with
only the obvious damage fixed instead of a whole new bike.

So if the driver gives you the run around definately send a letter of
demand/prelodgement notice. Don't worry to much about the insurance the
other guy is clearly at fault. In my case the police didn't attend the scene
and the lady probably bent the truth abit in her police report but the
insurance company still paid out no problems.

marcusl said:

Obviously if I'd broken anything, had any major grazes, bruising I'd
consider it....but like i said miracurously (for me and disappointingly
so for others that I've told about it - they want to see blood and
gore!)there is nothing like that.....

A couple of years ago I had a much more minor bingle than you - I
avoided the car and fell off, no real impact with the car. Didn't
seem to have any injuries except grazes.

HOWEVER, I found out a week later (from an x-ray) that I had a broken
scaphoid bone (in the wrist). Needed 6 weeks in plaster and 6 more in
a brace. If this injury isn't picked up, the bone tends to die and
cause arthritis etc...

(engage nagging mother tone)
So, definitely get yourself checked out properly!!

"Graeme" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

marcusl <[email hidden]> wrote in news:NOpEc.51016
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Miracurously (sp?) the only
injuries i recieved were some sore and slightly swollen knees with some
skin off (i think from hitting the handle bars on the way over), a
bruised hip , plus shoulder and lats that feel like I've just done a
huge session at the gym

You seem to be worried mainly about the bike (I'd probably be the same),
but remember you have been injured and a course of physio or whatever
should also be part of the deal. Get yourself to a doctor NOW so he can

say

Quoted message said:

you've done x, y & z to yourself. You can then claim for personal injury.

Graeme

BINGO! also take pictures of your knees. i know i'm late on this. my
appologies, but get the pictures asap! also pictures of the bike and the
accident spot. (if ya made marks through the grass and tore up turf it can
show how hard you hit.)

3 years ago i got hit from behind by a guy who was driving WAY too fast. he
hit me going 70 mph (120-130 kmph) his PU drug me 140 feet, i flew another
50 feet and skid on my knees another 20 feet. got all that on film about two
days later. you can see in the pictures where his tire blew, how far he
traveled before hitting me, where he slammed into me, where the vehicule
stopped at and where i landed and skid. we had used one of those really long
tape measures and tooke pictures from one place to the next. makes for a
very good case in court. also i had gotten pictures of all the damage to my
body (quite embarrassing to have my poor mother take pictures of my bare
tush and other bare body parts but had to be done.) had pictures taken of
the bike along w/ all the gear that got smooshed. (bike went under the
truck, i went through the truck.) and had gotten pictures of the other
vehicule as he had signed it over to the police. it wasn't drivable after
the accident seeing as i had moved the engine block through the dashboard
via my tail end. (i really shouldn't be alive)

anyway i degress here. pictures are one of the best things you can use in
court. they don't lie. (well usually they don't lie... now a days
however.... )

good luck and get pictures!

cheers
kat

marcusl <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

How do you find a qualified insurance assessor for bicycles? Might give
BNSW a call they may know if there is one in Sydney....

Aah, you are in Sydney. I'd suggest giving Bike Addiction a call (9938
3511), especially if you're on the North Side. Hugh really knows his
stuff wrt to broken bikes, having killed his fair share over the
years. In my experience, BA are also honest and enthusiastic about
bikes - I can't go there if I'm in a hurry, because I always end up
chatting for a while.

Quoted message said:

How do you get a pre-accident value assessment of your bike if it's not from
a bike shop...hmm....don't have the receipts...

A good bike shop will be able to make an assessment of replacement
value for the equivalent, probably devalued for wear and tear.

I'd also go to a doctor and get a full checkup, just to be sure. If
there is anything wrong, you want to know *now*, so you can a) have a
better chance of getting it fixed, and b) have a better chance of
showing it's a result of the prang.

Dave - who found a Crumpler sticker under his brake cable last night
at the pub.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"...and trogdor smote the kerrek. And all was laid to burnination."
-- Strongbad

marcusl wrote:
*snip*

Quoted message said:

Having said all this about letters of demand etc. I think I'd like to
give the guy a chance to do the right thing before such heavy
handedness....ask him if he's prepared to compensate me OR if he wants
to use insurance etc and proceed that way. (rather than him suddenly
receiving such a demand/threat)

Once you have the quotes, sending a letter of demand isn't heavy
handedness, it's a formality. All claims should be addressed to the
driver, regardless of who owns/insures the vehicle, it is then up to him
to pass the matter on to the insurance company.

If you are in NSW there is a good page from the Attorney Generals Dept
regarding debt recovery, and it has links to sample letters of demand.

<http://www.agd.nsw.gov.au/lc.nsf/pages/info_issueclaims>

Don't rush into a quick settlement until you have seen the doctors and
results are finalised - it is very important to get a thorough medical
checkup, and make sure you claim any costs involved.

- Munk3y

Vixen2yall said:

3 years ago i got hit from behind by a guy who was driving WAY too fast.
he hit me going 70 mph (120-130 kmph) his PU drug me 140 feet, i flew
another 50 feet and skid on my knees another 20 feet. got all that on
film about two days later. you can see in the pictures where his tire
blew, how far he traveled before hitting me, where he slammed into me,
where the vehicule stopped at and where i landed and skid. we had used
one of those really long tape measures and tooke pictures from one place
to the next. makes for a very good case in court. also i had gotten
pictures of all the damage to my body (quite embarrassing to have my
poor mother take pictures of my bare tush and other bare body parts but
had to be done.) had pictures taken of the bike along w/ all the gear
that got smooshed. (bike went under the truck, i went through the
truck.) and had gotten pictures of the other vehicule as he had signed
it over to the police. it wasn't drivable after the accident seeing as i
had moved the engine block through the dashboard via my tail end. (i
really shouldn't be alive)
anyway i degress here. pictures are one of the best things you can use
in court. they don't lie. (well usually they don't lie... now a days
however.... )
good luck and get pictures!
cheers kat

Ouch-erama!!!

sounds lik an episode of Jackass!

--