Accident - Advice sought

Get a copy of Cycling Weekly - solicitors who specialise in cycling claims advertise there. Also -
if you are a member of CTC then there is a legal service for members - phone them.

Glad you weren't too seriously hurt.

helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$**o$l.c$$*o$*m*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~

cpm tried to scribble ...

Quoted message said:

As I went through the junction, a car just ahead of me in lane two decided at the very last second
to brake and turn left instead. He collected me with his rear nearside, taking me and bike round
the corner with him. As he accelerated out of the corner, we all parted company and I landed
fairly heavily on my right side.

As you were behind the car when it started the manouvre, and you appear to have run into him while
he's making the left turn, I reckon it's possibly your fault ..

There's no excuse for hitting someone in front of you, no matter how st00pidly they drive .. you
should always leave enough room to stop or take evasive action .. whether riding a bike, driving a
car or any other vehicle .. 😉

--
Digweed

"Digweed .. 😉" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As you were behind the car when it started the manouvre, and you appear to have run into him while
he's making the left turn, I reckon it's possibly your fault ..

Unless car had just overtaken the OP before swinging left - I've had this happen to me a couple of
times before.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cpm

<Snipped appaling story>

Hope you get better after being swiped by this unusually callous person.

There is a fund set up by the insurance companies which covers motorists who are not insured. I can't remember the name of it but they paid out when my brother was hit by an uninsured driver. I suggest you try posting to uk.legal and also try the Citizen's Advice Bureau who I've always found very helpful. If you are a member of the CTC, they have lawyers who could look at the case. But whatever you do, definitely report it to the police, it's not too late.

Good luck

LN

In message <[email hidden]>, "Digweed .. 😉"
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

cpm tried to scribble ...

Quoted message said:

As I went through the junction, a car just ahead of me in lane two decided at the very last
second to brake and turn left instead. He collected me with his rear nearside, taking me and bike
round the corner with him. As he accelerated out of the corner, we all parted company and I
landed fairly heavily on my right side.

As you were behind the car when it started the manouvre, and you appear to have run into him while
he's making the left turn, I reckon it's possibly your fault ..

There's no excuse for hitting someone in front of you, no matter how st00pidly they drive .. you
should always leave enough room to stop or take evasive action .. whether riding a bike, driving a
car or any other vehicle .. 😉

The OP did write that the car "decided at the very last second to brake and turn left". This is not
an unusual accident, often caused by the inattentiveness of drivers. We didn't witness the incident
so it seems totally unreasonable to blame the OP who may genuinely had insufficient time to take
evasive action..

I wonder if some people on this NG ever ride bikes, Digweed?
--
Michael MacClancy

www.macclancy.demon.co.uk

On 15 Aug 2003 07:25:19 -0700 someone who may be [email hidden] (cpm) wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Riding south out of the city centre in 5pm traffic. (5 lane, one way section, where lane 1 is left
only, 2,3 and 4 are straight on, 5 is right only). I was in lane 2 going straight ahead with
traffic mostly passing me in the same lane no problem.

I think there is a problem. If others can pass you without changing lane then you appear not to be
following John Franklin's excellent advice on positioning. In such a situation it is essential to
ride in the middle of the lane, which forces others to think about how they overtake you. If they
can squeeze past you without thinking then that is what they will do.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

As I went through the junction, a car just ahead of me in lane two decided at the very last second
to brake and turn left instead. He collected me with his rear nearside, taking me and bike round
the corner with him

Bloody thoughtless [censored]. I know this type of driver - they are [censored].

<snip>

Quoted message said:

As he accelerated out of the corner, we all parted company and I landed fairly heavily on my
right side.<snip> I got the name of the other cyclist and two pedestrian witnesses who were all
very supportive. (A big thank you to the cyclist who helped
me.) After I got home I went to the police station and reported the accident.

Let me guess. The police were so busy handing speed tickets out that a genuine member of the public
wanting their help had to wait for two hours? Three? Police are [censored] as well. They have turned
law abiding citizens who they need to help crack real crime into folks who hate their guts becuase
of their persecution of motorists.

I popped into casualty too but they were really busy so I

Quoted message said:

saw my GP the next day instead and he noted all my injuries. Damage to the bike appears to be
contained to the rear mech and front wheel. Helmet will need replaced too. My injuries, though
still very painful, are not serious and will hopefully heal in 2 or 3 weeks. Mostly bruising to
some muscles in lower back, some sort of injury to my right deltoid, grazed bruised elbow and hip,
and bruised wrist.

See my thread above about insurance - how much does it cost to insure yourself and the bike against
this type of thing?

Slim

Quoted message said:

PS I know, I should have called the police at the time.

In message <[email hidden]>, David Hansen
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On 15 Aug 2003 07:25:19 -0700 someone who may be [email hidden] (cpm) wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Riding south out of the city centre in 5pm traffic. (5 lane, one way section, where lane 1 is left
only, 2,3 and 4 are straight on, 5 is right only). I was in lane 2 going straight ahead with
traffic mostly passing me in the same lane no problem.

I think there is a problem.

Do you mean, "there's the problem"? Otherwise, where's the problem?

Quoted message said:

If others can pass you without changing lane then you appear not to be following John Franklin's
excellent advice on positioning. In such a situation it is essential to ride in the middle of the
lane, which forces others to think about how they overtake you. If they can squeeze past you
without thinking then that is what they will do.

John Franklin's excellent advice does not mean that the driver has no responsibility to check that
it is safe to turn. I am sure that the driver carries most of the blame in this incident.

There are several 'accident' threads alive at the moment. I find it interesting that there are
people who invariable try to blame the cyclist for any accident and others who claim that the
motorist is always wholly to blame. I feel sorry for people who evidently live in such black and
white worlds. Mine is full of colour.

--
Michael MacClancy

www.macclancy.demon.co.uk

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The OP did write that the car "decided at the very last second to brake and turn left".

My dad was involved in a crash where a car initially in another lane suddenly presented itself
side-on in front of him and too close to stop: the fact that the other car was in another lane to
start with was sufficient to persuade the courts that the other driver was to blame. Hopefully the
same will apply here.

Advice to the OP: Pursue the Police and ask them to ensure that the driver will be charged with
driving without due car. Make sure you get copies of any witness statements, and keep a note of the
case number.

And sue the [censored] of the clueless git. Record every minute you spend on the phone, every penny you
spend on stamps and stationery, every second you spend travelling to and from the police station,
every mile you travel getting estimates for fixing the bike.

Why? Because not only is he a clueless git, he made a fairly concerted attempt to leave the scene.
Hit and run is becoming a real problem in the UK now; drunks, for example, would rather leave
someone to die than risk losing their licence by stopping and calling for assistance.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗

"Adrian Boliston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Digweed .. 😉" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As you were behind the car when it started the manouvre, and you appear

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have run into him while he's making the left turn, I reckon it's

possibly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

your fault ..

Unless car had just overtaken the OP before swinging left - I've had this

happen

Quoted message said:

to me a couple of times before.

Yup, same here ... the car would have been well aware of your presence, and was therefore driving
without due care and attention. Get some proper legal advice. You deserve a new bike 🙂

In message <[email hidden]>, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Pursue the Police and ask them to ensure that the driver will be charged with driving
without due car.

Even when dealing with such serious matters one does have to smirk a little at the unintended
results of typos. ;-)
--
Michael MacClancy

www.macclancy.demon.co.uk

Digweed .. ;) said:

cpm tried to scribble ...

Quoted message said:

As I went through the junction, a car just ahead of me in lane two decided at the very last
second to brake and turn left instead. He collected me with his rear nearside, taking me and
bike round the corner with him. As he accelerated out of the corner, we all parted company and I
landed fairly heavily on my right side.

As you were behind the car when it started the manouvre, and you appear to have run into him while
he's making the left turn, I reckon it's possibly your fault ..

Fair comment. However it's possible that he'd just been overtaken by the car in question. That might
change the situation somewhat.

Failure to stop after an accident might be something to consider.

--
Daniel Auger - [email hidden] (Please remove Granta to get a valid address.)

"The Real Slim Shady" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Let me guess. The police were so busy handing speed tickets out that a genuine member of the
public wanting their help had to wait for two hours? Three? Police are [censored] as well. They have
turned law abiding citizens who they need to help crack real crime into folks who hate their guts
becuase of their persecution of motorists.

Is the wrong answer.

First, my local plod are courteous, efficient, friendly and were very concerned when I reported two
incidents to them. No waiting was involved.

Second, nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to speed. If you don't want to get
nicked, don't break the speed limit. Speed adds danger to all situations on the road, and keeping
drivers from consuming every last bit of the safety benefits of modern road surfaces, tyres and
brakes, as performance benefits to the detriment of non-motorised road users, is perfectly
acceptable.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, David Hansen
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On 15 Aug 2003 07:25:19 -0700 someone who may be [email hidden] (cpm) wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Riding south out of the city centre in 5pm traffic. (5 lane, one way section, where lane 1 is
left only, 2,3 and 4 are straight on, 5 is right only). I was in lane 2 going straight ahead
with traffic mostly passing me in the same lane no problem.

I think there is a problem.

Do you mean, "there's the problem"? Otherwise, where's the problem?

Quoted message said:

If others can pass you without changing lane then you appear not to be following John Franklin's
excellent advice on positioning. In such a situation it is essential to ride in the middle of the
lane, which forces others to think about how they overtake you. If they can squeeze past you
without thinking then that is what they will do.

John Franklin's excellent advice does not mean that the driver has no responsibility to check that
it is safe to turn. I am sure that the driver carries most of the blame in this incident.

There are several 'accident' threads alive at the moment. I find it interesting that there are
people who invariable try to blame the cyclist for any accident and others who claim that the
motorist is always wholly to blame. I feel sorry for people who evidently live in such black and
white worlds. Mine is full of colour.

Is the colour red?

David has introduced a different point - that of how to avoid the accident in the first place. This
is nothing to do with who is to blame.

clive

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The OP did write that the car "decided at the very last second to brake and turn left".

My dad was involved in a crash where a car initially in another lane suddenly presented itself
side-on in front of him and too close to stop:

the

Quoted message said:

fact that the other car was in another lane to start with was sufficient

to

Quoted message said:

persuade the courts that the other driver was to blame. Hopefully the

same

Quoted message said:

will apply here.

The OP states they were both in the same lane (lane 2) and the car was ahead of him.

As stated it appears to be the OP's fault, unless the car had overtaken him immediately prior to
turning left.

In "]news:[email hidden], cpm <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

As I went through the junction, a car just ahead of me in lane two decided at the very last second
to brake and turn left instead. He collected me with his rear nearside, taking me and bike round
the corner with him. As he accelerated out of the corner, we all parted company and I landed
fairly heavily on my right side.

Unless the car had just overtaken you you may have a problem. You should leave sufficient space to
stop if the driver in front does something stupid or for example has to emergency stop or swerve to
avoid something. If you run into the back of someone even if they have done an unexpected manouver,
its you fault for not leaving sufficient gap. Think throught this very carefully as the success or
otherwise of you case will probably hinge on it.

Quoted message said:

I got the name of the other cyclist and two pedestrian witnesses who were all very supportive. (A
big thank you to the cyclist who helped
me.) After I got home I went to the police station and reported the accident. I popped into
casualty too but they were really busy so I saw my GP the next day instead and he noted all my
injuries.

Make sure the police take witness statements and ask for a copy to help prepare your case. It
will also help you understand whether they are supportive and help you case or supportive and
help OP's case.

Quoted message said:

In the event that he isn't insured, can anyone recommend a reputable claims handler that will
handle a suit for the damages to my wheel, mech and helmet? Since my injuries are not serious, is
there any point in pursuing a claim for those too?

You can do it yourself through the Small Claims Court and you can start the process after giving OP
a reasonable chance to pay up through MoneyClaim Online which makes it all very easy. But again
think very carefully about whose fault it really was before starting down this line and only go
ahead if you are sure it was his.

Tony

--
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve immortality through not
dying." Woody Allen

In message <[email hidden]>, Clive George

Quoted message said:

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, David Hansen
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On 15 Aug 2003 07:25:19 -0700 someone who may be [email hidden] (cpm) wrote this:-

>Riding south out of the city centre in 5pm traffic. (5 lane, one way section, where lane 1 is
>left only, 2,3 and 4 are straight on, 5 is right only). I was in lane 2 going straight ahead
>with traffic mostly passing me in the same lane no problem.

I think there is a problem.

Do you mean, "there's the problem"? Otherwise, where's the problem?

Quoted message said:

If others can pass you without changing lane then you appear not to be following John Franklin's
excellent advice on positioning. In such a situation it is essential to ride in the middle of
the lane, which forces others to think about how they overtake you. If they can squeeze past you
without thinking then that is what they will do.

John Franklin's excellent advice does not mean that the driver has no responsibility to check
that it is safe to turn. I am sure that the driver carries most of the blame in this incident.

There are several 'accident' threads alive at the moment. I find it interesting that there are
people who invariable try to blame the cyclist for any accident and others who claim that the
motorist is always wholly to blame. I feel sorry for people who evidently live in such black and
white worlds. Mine is full of colour.

Is the colour red?

Red of one of them. ;-)

Quoted message said:

David has introduced a different point - that of how to avoid the accident in the first place. This
is nothing to do with who is to blame.

Maybe. But there are plenty of people who would seek to use this information to blame the OP. They
believe that failure to follow John Franklin's advice is sufficient reason to condemn you to an
early death. (Slight exaggeration, I know, but you get the message.)
--
Michael MacClancy

www.macclancy.demon.co.uk

cpm must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

I was hit by a car a couple of days ago (13/8) in Glasgow.

Riding south out of the city centre in 5pm traffic. (5 lane, one way section, where lane 1 is left
only, 2,3 and 4 are straight on, 5 is right only). I was in lane 2 going straight ahead with
traffic mostly passing me in the same lane no problem.

As I went through the junction, a car just ahead of me in lane two decided at the very last second
to brake and turn left instead. He collected me with his rear nearside, taking me and bike round
the corner with him. As he accelerated out of the corner, we all parted company and I landed
fairly heavily on my right side.

Driver seemed not to want to stop, despite now being pursued by another loud shouting cyclist, and
only stopping when a pedestrian (witness) stepped out in front of him and held up his hands.
Driver couldn't give a toss about the incident and left his name, address and reg number and left.

I got the name of the other cyclist and two pedestrian witnesses who were all very supportive. (A
big thank you to the cyclist who helped
me.) After I got home I went to the police station and reported the accident. I popped into
casualty too but they were really busy so I saw my GP the next day instead and he noted all my
injuries.

Damage to the bike appears to be contained to the rear mech and front wheel. Helmet will need
replaced too. My injuries, though still very painful, are not serious and will hopefully heal in 2
or 3 weeks. Mostly bruising to some muscles in lower back, some sort of injury to my right
deltoid, grazed bruised elbow and hip, and bruised wrist.

In the event that he isn't insured, can anyone recommend a reputable claims handler that will
handle a suit for the damages to my wheel, mech and helmet? Since my injuries are not serious, is
there any point in pursuing a claim for those too?

cheers cpm
PS I know, I should have called the police at the time.

If he isn't insured you can still claim through the MIB, speak to the CTC first though, glad you
survived, others haven't been so lucky, you need to press the police into taking action against the
driver as well.

Ian

In message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In "]news:[email hidden], cpm <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

As I went through the junction, a car just ahead of me in lane two decided at the very last
second to brake and turn left instead. He collected me with his rear nearside, taking me and bike
round the corner with him. As he accelerated out of the corner, we all parted company and I
landed fairly heavily on my right side.

Unless the car had just overtaken you you may have a problem. You should leave sufficient space to
stop if the driver in front does something stupid or for example has to emergency stop or swerve to
avoid something. If you run into the back of someone even if they have done an unexpected manouver,
its you fault for not leaving sufficient gap.

He didn't run into the back, he went into the rear near_side_. His description 'just ahead' is
imprecise but I would say this if I had an overlap, even if I was alongside but behind the middle of
the vehicle. In multi-lane traffic someone will nearly always be 'just ahead', 'just behind' or
alongside and it hardly seems possible to make progress whilst making allowance for all the possible
actions of all the possible clowns on the road.

I guess the OP, for no particular fault of his own, was in the car's blind spot and the driver
didn't look over his/her shoulder.
--
Michael MacClancy

www.macclancy.demon.co.uk