About will power

Gandalf Parker said:

Stacey Bender <[email hidden]> wrote in
I dont consider any of the present dieting plans to be "natural" in that
regard. But if the vegan lifestyle works, I feel its because they have
stumbled onto the general rules about the whys and wherefores of
herbivores.

We are omnivores.

Quoted message said:

One of the errors that I feel is pointed out by this theory is that the
"gluttony" people keep pointing at in others looks to me as a carnivore
who is eating 3 or more meals a day. Its not so much the diet as mixing
and matching it with pieces of lifestyle from the other categories.

Diabetes is also rising dramatically in india among vegetarians too. Fat
isn't only in meat.

Moon Shooter said:

Genes want to survive and spread.

Genes have awareness?

Stacey Bender said:

Gandalf Parker said:

Stacey Bender <[email hidden]> wrote in
I dont consider any of the present dieting plans to be "natural" in

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

regard. But if the vegan lifestyle works, I feel its because they

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stumbled onto the general rules about the whys and wherefores of
herbivores.

We are omnivores.

Quoted message said:

One of the errors that I feel is pointed out by this theory is that

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"gluttony" people keep pointing at in others looks to me as a

carnivore

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who is eating 3 or more meals a day. Its not so much the diet as

mixing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and matching it with pieces of lifestyle from the other categories.

Quoted message said:

Diabetes is also rising dramatically in india among vegetarians too.

Fat

Quoted message said:

isn't only in meat.

And Hindu vegetarians have 2 to 3 times the heart disease of
meat-eating Muslims from the same areas of India.

TC

Gandalf Parker said:

I have no problem with fat. However there are no unhealthy herbivores.

We had some fat horses that were unealthy. In the wild this is unlikely
to happen simply because the exercise component is so high in food
gathering. Give a being too much food with too little exercise and
they'll be fat and unhealthy. Exercise enough and it may not matter what
you eat.

Stacey Bender <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Gandalf Parker said:

I have no problem with fat. However there are no unhealthy herbivores.

We had some fat horses that were unealthy. In the wild this is unlikely
to happen simply because the exercise component is so high in food
gathering. Give a being too much food with too little exercise and
they'll be fat and unhealthy. Exercise enough and it may not matter what
you eat.

True enough. But if my theory holds up then the problem with the horses
were that they were not living the herbivorian lifestyle. They had the diet
but nothing else. On the other hand, if the theory holds true then someone
who does much less exercising can do fine on a carnivore diet

Thats where Im hping its headed. That the claims of what works, doesnt
work, and various examples, can in some broad sense be declared as a
logical result of not properly doing things in an herbivore, omnivore, or
carnivore way. Not just the diet but the lifstyle including exercise,
sleep, etc.

Gandalf Parker

In message <[email hidden]>,
Luna <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

A lot of people here used to eat high-carb meals, and keep eating and
eating, never feeling full. We'd eat and then an hour later be hungry
again, even though our bodies had more than enough fuel already in them.

We must have been weak willed, huh?

And then, interestingly, once we went low-carb, after a week or two
those cravings went away, and all of a sudden we were satiated on a lot
less food, and we started losing weight. And some of us even felt like
we had so much more energy that we started exercising, whereas before we
were just too tired. So, now, since we are eating less and exercising
more, and the only way to do that is through will power, we therefore
must now be stronger willed than before, right?

I wonder what the scientific process is in the body by which low-carb
increases will power, moral fiber, etc. Maybe there is a will power
section of the brain that remains dormant in the presence of excessive
carbohydrates? ;o)

Silly Luna.

If it doesn't hurt, it doesn't count.

If we find an easy way to shed the poundage, without suffering, then
it's not proper weight loss [1].

We have to do it the hard way, suffering physiological starvation,
chewing on a leather strap and crying ourselves to sleep at nights
because of the gnawing pain of an empty belly. This is much better for
us, and it is character-building too.

[1] It's probably only water weight anyway. [2]

[2] And our kidneys will fall out.
--
Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat

Luna said:

A lot of people here used to eat high-carb meals, and keep eating and
eating, never feeling full. We'd eat and then an hour later be hungry
again, even though our bodies had more than enough fuel already in them.

We must have been weak willed, huh?

This is a weak point in the argument.
An alternative conclusion is that we must have been addicted.
But, neither of these (willpower or addiction) is necessarily proven by
the arguments, they are just noises that sound significant.

What do you think?

Quoted message said:

And then, interestingly, once we went low-carb, after a week or two
those cravings went away, and all of a sudden we were satiated on a lot
less food, and we started losing weight. And some of us even felt like
we had so much more energy that we started exercising, whereas before we
were just too tired. So, now, since we are eating less and exercising
more, and the only way to do that is through will power, we therefore
must now be stronger willed than before, right?

Another weak point in the argument.

Conclusion again does not follow from what was said. Alternative
postulate of addiction to carb eating was broken is just one of several
potential explanations.

Quoted message said:

I wonder what the scientific process is in the body by which low-carb
increases will power, moral fiber, etc. Maybe there is a will power
section of the brain that remains dormant in the presence of excessive
carbohydrates? ;o)

Then too, one could write a paper on the antagonistic native interaction
between carbohydrates consumed and will power. One delicious piece of
candy never really is enough.

Jim

--
................................

Keepsake gift for young girls.
Unique and personal one-of-a-kind.
Builds strong minds 12 ways.
Guaranteed satisfaction
- courteous money back
- keep bonus gifts

http://www.alicebook.com

Damned skippy.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Mogget" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>,
Luna <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

A lot of people here used to eat high-carb meals, and keep eating and
eating, never feeling full. We'd eat and then an hour later be hungry
again, even though our bodies had more than enough fuel already in them.

We must have been weak willed, huh?

And then, interestingly, once we went low-carb, after a week or two
those cravings went away, and all of a sudden we were satiated on a lot
less food, and we started losing weight. And some of us even felt like
we had so much more energy that we started exercising, whereas before we
were just too tired. So, now, since we are eating less and exercising
more, and the only way to do that is through will power, we therefore
must now be stronger willed than before, right?

I wonder what the scientific process is in the body by which low-carb
increases will power, moral fiber, etc. Maybe there is a will power
section of the brain that remains dormant in the presence of excessive
carbohydrates? ;o)

Silly Luna.

If it doesn't hurt, it doesn't count.

If we find an easy way to shed the poundage, without suffering, then it's
not proper weight loss [1].

We have to do it the hard way, suffering physiological starvation, chewing
on a leather strap and crying ourselves to sleep at nights because of the
gnawing pain of an empty belly. This is much better for us, and it is
character-building too.

[1] It's probably only water weight anyway. [2]

[2] And our kidneys will fall out.
--
Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat

Just keep on rationalizing, but that is not going to help you when the going
gets tough. It's much better to create good habits that can be followed all
the way to your goals. Of course you'll have to take responsibility for your
actions and have some strength of will to get there, which of course you've
not been able to do so far.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A lot of people here used to eat high-carb meals, and keep eating and
eating, never feeling full. We'd eat and then an hour later be hungry
again, even though our bodies had more than enough fuel already in them.

We must have been weak willed, huh?

And then, interestingly, once we went low-carb, after a week or two
those cravings went away, and all of a sudden we were satiated on a lot
less food, and we started losing weight. And some of us even felt like
we had so much more energy that we started exercising, whereas before we
were just too tired. So, now, since we are eating less and exercising
more, and the only way to do that is through will power, we therefore
must now be stronger willed than before, right?

I wonder what the scientific process is in the body by which low-carb
increases will power, moral fiber, etc. Maybe there is a will power
section of the brain that remains dormant in the presence of excessive
carbohydrates? ;o)

The only way to lose weight is to use less energy than you take in.

HTH

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rationalizing what? Several dudes on here recently, or maybe the same
dude with different handles, have said that the only way to lose weight
is with willpower. If that's true, then everyone who has lost weight on
low-carb did so because low-carb somehow increases willpower, strength
of character, moral fiber, etc. I'm just wondering what the mechanism
is for this increase.

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

Just keep on rationalizing, but that is not going to help you when the
going
gets tough. It's much better to create good habits that can be followed
all
the way to your goals. Of course you'll have to take responsibility for
your
actions and have some strength of will to get there, which of course
you've
not been able to do so far.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A lot of people here used to eat high-carb meals, and keep eating and
eating, never feeling full. We'd eat and then an hour later be hungry
again, even though our bodies had more than enough fuel already in
them.

We must have been weak willed, huh?

And then, interestingly, once we went low-carb, after a week or two
those cravings went away, and all of a sudden we were satiated on a lot
less food, and we started losing weight. And some of us even felt like
we had so much more energy that we started exercising, whereas before
we
were just too tired. So, now, since we are eating less and exercising
more, and the only way to do that is through will power, we therefore
must now be stronger willed than before, right?

I wonder what the scientific process is in the body by which low-carb
increases will power, moral fiber, etc. Maybe there is a will power
section of the brain that remains dormant in the presence of excessive
carbohydrates? ;o)

More, not less. But I know what you meant.

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

The only way to lose weight is to use less energy than you take in.

HTH

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rationalizing what? Several dudes on here recently, or maybe the same
dude with different handles, have said that the only way to lose weight
is with willpower. If that's true, then everyone who has lost weight on
low-carb did so because low-carb somehow increases willpower, strength
of character, moral fiber, etc. I'm just wondering what the mechanism
is for this increase.

In article <[email hidden]>,

JC Der Koenig said:

Just keep on rationalizing, but that is not going to help you when the
going
gets tough. It's much better to create good habits that can be followed
all
the way to your goals. Of course you'll have to take responsibility for
your
actions and have some strength of will to get there, which of course
you've
not been able to do so far.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>A lot of people here used to eat high-carb meals, and keep eating and
> eating, never feeling full. We'd eat and then an hour later be hungry
> again, even though our bodies had more than enough fuel already in
> them.
>
> We must have been weak willed, huh?
>
> And then, interestingly, once we went low-carb, after a week or two
> those cravings went away, and all of a sudden we were satiated on a lot
> less food, and we started losing weight. And some of us even felt like
> we had so much more energy that we started exercising, whereas before
> we
> were just too tired. So, now, since we are eating less and exercising
> more, and the only way to do that is through will power, we therefore
> must now be stronger willed than before, right?
>
> I wonder what the scientific process is in the body by which low-carb
> increases will power, moral fiber, etc. Maybe there is a will power
> section of the brain that remains dormant in the presence of excessive
> carbohydrates? ;o)

JC Der Koenig said:

The only way to lose weight is to use less energy than you take in.

HTH

I think you mean more not less.
I guess english is your second language.

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:34:41 GMT, Mogget <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[1] It's probably only water weight anyway. [2]

[2] And our kidneys will fall out.
--
Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat

Silly Mogget. That's what the Duct Tape is for - to hold our kidneys
IN!

Aramanth

Aramanth Dawe <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:34:41 GMT, Mogget <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[1] It's probably only water weight anyway. [2]

[2] And our kidneys will fall out.
--
Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat

Silly Mogget. That's what the Duct Tape is for - to hold our kidneys
IN!

Hmmmmm duct tape as a diet aid....
Give yourself a girdle that isnt easy to get out of. Force a "shrunk
stomach" effect. Kindof like the tummy-tuck surgery but without the
horrible side-effects.....
And of course, like most diets that make garauntees, if you add the
obligatory "6-8 glasses of water and a daily exercise program" then you
can offer them their money back if it doesnt work just as long as they
properly followed the instructions.

Someone oughtta write a book. The Duct Tape Diet 🙂

Gandalf Parker

Luna said:

A lot of people here used to eat high-carb meals, and keep eating and
eating, never feeling full. We'd eat and then an hour later be hungry
again, even though our bodies had more than enough fuel already in them.

Quoted message said:

We must have been weak willed, huh?

Quoted message said:

And then, interestingly, once we went low-carb, after a week or two
those cravings went away, and all of a sudden we were satiated on a lot
less food, and we started losing weight. And some of us even felt like
we had so much more energy that we started exercising, whereas before we
were just too tired. So, now, since we are eating less and exercising
more, and the only way to do that is through will power, we therefore
must now be stronger willed than before, right?

Quoted message said:

I wonder what the scientific process is in the body by which low-carb
increases will power, moral fiber, etc. Maybe there is a will power
section of the brain that remains dormant in the presence of excessive
carbohydrates? ;o)

I honestly think low-carb lowers the bar. It makes it physically easier
to hang in there and do what you know you should do.

If you're constantly hungry and/or beset by cravings, your attention is
focussed on NOT eating far more often, offering more of what my wife calls
"slip-uppable moments" when you can end up acting against your own best
interests.

I think what I like best about low-carb is that it has let me mostly diet
on autopilot and not 'willpower'. I'm mostly not hungry. I don't feel
faint. I don't have low blood sugar-induced or allergy-induced cravings.
I just get on with my day and spend my time doing more important things
than think about food.

But I also know that I'm only ever a dozen donuts away from the way I used
to live and that keeps me vigilant.

Dan
325/189/190
Atkins since 1/1/02 (yeah, it was a New Year's Resolution)
Besetting sins: good beer, German bread, and Krispy Kremes

Daniel Hoffmeister <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I honestly think low-carb lowers the bar. It makes it physically
easier to hang in there and do what you know you should do.

If you're constantly hungry and/or beset by cravings, your attention
is focussed on NOT eating far more often, offering more of what my
wife calls "slip-uppable moments" when you can end up acting against
your own best interests.

I think what I like best about low-carb is that it has let me mostly
diet on autopilot and not 'willpower'. I'm mostly not hungry. I don't
feel faint. I don't have low blood sugar-induced or allergy-induced
cravings. I just get on with my day and spend my time doing more
important things than think about food.

But I also know that I'm only ever a dozen donuts away from the way I
used to live and that keeps me vigilant.

Dan
325/189/190
Atkins since 1/1/02 (yeah, it was a New Year's Resolution)
Besetting sins: good beer, German bread, and Krispy Kremes

AMEN! I agree with you totally. I've found, in my mere 16 days <G>, that
I don't obsess about what I can and can't have, don't have to make as many
choices because some foods are an automatic "no" (cookies, bread, rice,
etc.) so I go for the meat and some veg, and add a little butter to the veg
(that's my favorite thing about LCing, before I ate potatoes just for the
butter - lol), etc. But the main thing is, this isn't a WOE that causes me
to obsess about food as others do, because I'm not hungry, so I can get on
with life and let the weight take care of itself.

And Dan, I LOVE your numbers!!! 🙂

Sherry
360/?/195 (day 16)

Daniel Hoffmeister said:

I honestly think low-carb lowers the bar. It makes it physically easier
to hang in there and do what you know you should do.

It probably does, while you are on it. But then people go off it, so i
guess the bar is still pretty high.

In message <[email hidden]>, JC Der Koenig
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Damned skippy.

A good point I am sure, pithily made.

Alas I do not understand it. Please could you translate into English
English.
--
Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat

Damned skippy = I concur heartily

HTH

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"Mogget" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, JC Der Koenig
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Damned skippy.

A good point I am sure, pithily made.

Alas I do not understand it. Please could you translate into English
English.
--
Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat

sherry said:

Daniel Hoffmeister <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

.....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dan
325/189/190
Atkins since 1/1/02 (yeah, it was a New Year's Resolution)
Besetting sins: good beer, German bread, and Krispy Kremes

....

Quoted message said:

And Dan, I LOVE your numbers!!! 🙂

Quoted message said:

Sherry
360/?/195 (day 16)

I love my numbers, too ;-) Took a while at a slow rate of loss, but I
finally made it to goal weight this February.

Good luck on the path, Sherry. Hang in there. It's doable even though
the goal seems like a long way away.

You'll find some good, sensible folks on this newsgroup who are supportive
of all true seekers and who give good advice. Just learn to ignore the
rest ;-)

Dan
325/189/190
Atkins since 1/1/02 (yeah, it was a New Year's Resolution)
Besetting sins: good beer, German bread, and Krispy Kremes