A torque wrench is not necessary?

Quoted post said:

"Never before in the history of cycling equipment has this magic gauge of tightness been so necessary.

This is one of those English language grammatical constructs that is confusing to many people. This means that never before has a torque wrench been as important as it is now; it does not mean that a torque wrench has never been important. For the record, a torque wrench is only applicable on bicycles in the hub nuts and nuts around other bearings in the bicycle; in other words, the ones you normally don't want to mess with.

ABG said:

For the record, a torque wrench is only applicable on bicycles in the hub nuts and nuts around other bearings in the bicycle; in other words, the ones you normally don't want to mess with.

And a few others that I can think of off the top of my head: new Shimano cranks (Ultegra and Dura-Ace), and stem-bolts, and steerer cap bolt, and brifters, and seat post bolt.

Bob

ABG said:

This is one of those English language grammatical constructs that is confusing to many people. This means that never before has a torque wrench been as important as it is now; it does not mean that a torque wrench has never been important. For the record, a torque wrench is only applicable on bicycles in the hub nuts and nuts around other bearings in the bicycle; in other words, the ones you normally don't want to mess with.

Are you on booze and/or ride ancient steel bikes? Shimano and Campagnolo totally disagrees with you. You ought to post your opinion on any of the pro team web sites, and hope they don't respond. You need HELP!

ABG said:

This is one of those English language grammatical constructs that is confusing to many people. This means that never before has a torque wrench been as important as it is now; it does not mean that a torque wrench has never been important. For the record, a torque wrench is only applicable on bicycles in the hub nuts and nuts around other bearings in the bicycle; in other words, the ones you normally don't want to mess with.

How do you get a torque wrench onto a hub axle locknut, pray?

I tighten the seat screws until a blue vein pops out in my forehead and my eyes bulge.And use loctite.....and the feckin' thing still works loose and creaks!

[font=Comic Sans MS]Its a Talkwench thats not nessesary,you know the when the sig other stands behind you and says are you fiddling with that stupid bicycle again?🙂 [/font]

Torque wrenches can be replaced by enough experience. If you know how tight it can go before things start breaking, then you are set. Getting hollowtech IIs to the same tension may be difficult though. Torque wrenches are next to useless for bearing cones, every set of hubs can require different torques and that can change for the same hub. If it spins freely and has no play, the cones are fine. Just pinch the locknut down with a spanner and conewrench, don't spend money on a torque wrench.

lks said:

Are you on booze and/or ride ancient steel bikes? Shimano and Campagnolo totally disagrees with you. You ought to post your opinion on any of the pro team web sites, and hope they don't respond. You need HELP!

Keep in mind that we are message board posters. Most of us are normal people who happen to also be cyclists, so that kind of comment is not uncalled-for, so kiss my ass. Yes I have a Giant steel bike; it's 10 years old and still rides great, and I've put lots of use on it. Steel is still the most durable material for frames and even for many components. You got a problem with that?

As for being stupid for saying a torque wrench is not needed and being "non-pro"; my opinion is that pro riders are freaky. They look at the rest of us like we are stupid for riding slowly up hills, on steel bikes, or not using torque wrenches, CO2 cartridges, or fancy-ass team cycling jerseys. Personally, anyone with veins popping out of any part of their body, even while the are not exercising, scares me, and I wouldn't listen to them about anything, not even cycling advice.

I have tightened and loosened brake nuts many, many times with average mechanic's wrenches; same goes with deralleur cable bolts and rear wheel nuts. Just make them "tight" and not "super-tight". As for new Shimano cranks (Ultegra and Dura-Ace) and stem-bolts, and steerer cap bolt - yeah those are things most cyclists probably don't want to mess with themselves, and the exact tightness is important in those areas. I'm not sure what a brifter is. As for seat posts, my seat post has a quick-release lever so a torque wrench isn't possible; I usually just tighten it down till "the veins pop out of my head" too. 🙂

And yes I do now realize that hub nuts will have a hard time fitting torque wrenches; only the skinny ones will do usually. Still, for some reason I have seen torque specifications listed on repair manuals for hub nuts; why, who knows?

artemidorus said:

How do you get a torque wrench onto a hub axle locknut, pray?

If the wheel manufacturer doesn't spec a torque, you don't need to. But there are open end and box wrench attachments for torque wrenches.

bobbyOCR said:

Torque wrenches can be replaced by enough experience. If you know how tight it can go before things start breaking, then you are set. Getting hollowtech IIs to the same tension may be difficult though. Torque wrenches are next to useless for bearing cones, every set of hubs can require different torques and that can change for the same hub. If it spins freely and has no play, the cones are fine. Just pinch the locknut down with a spanner and conewrench, don't spend money on a torque wrench.

There was a test to see how close FAA mechanics could come to meeting different torques, without using a torque wrench. Almost all applied a torque that was too little or too much. You think it was because they didn't have enough experience?

ABG said:

Keep in mind that we are message board posters. Most of us are normal people who happen to also be cyclists, so that kind of comment is not uncalled-for, so kiss my ass. Yes I have a Giant steel bike; it's 10 years old and still rides great, and I've put lots of use on it. You got a problem with that?

As for being stupid for saying a torque wrench is not needed and being "non-pro"; my opinion is that pro riders are freaky. They look at the rest of us like we are stupid for riding slowly up hills, on steel bikes, or not using torque wrenches, CO2 cartridges, or fancy-ass team cycling jerseys. Personally, anyone with veins popping out of any part of their body, even while the are not exercising, scares me, and I wouldn't listen to them about anything, not even cycling advice.

I have tightened and loosened brake nuts many, many times with average mechanic's wrenches; same goes with deralleur cable bolts and rear wheel nuts. Just make them "tight" and not "super-tight". As for new Shimano cranks (Ultegra and Dura-Ace) and stem-bolts, and steerer cap bolt - yeah those are things most cyclists probably don't want to mess with themselves, and the exact tightness is important in those areas. I'm not sure what a brifter is. As for seat posts, my seat post has a quick-release lever so a torque wrench isn't possible; I usually just tighten it down till "the veins pop out of my head" too. 🙂

And yes I do now realize that hub nuts will have a hard time fitting torque wrenches; only the skinny ones will do usually. Still, for some reason I have seen torque specifications listed on repair manuals for hub nuts; why, who knows?

What you have gotten away with on old steel, may not always work on the materials used on modern bikes. Bottom line is, reader's can follow your advice or the manufacturer's!

Torque specs are there for liability reasons. Being a bike mechanic in a shop for 3 years, I used a torque wrench ONCE. It was so that a customer, who kept complaining about his crank coming loose couldn't come back and say that the crank bolt wasn't torqued to spec (he was an engineer, so I think he checked). The problem turned out to be that he was disassembling his cranks after muddy rides to clean them and over greasing the threads on the crank bolts...[img]cyclingforums.comrolleyes.gifOpen ↗[/img].

graphixgeek said:

Torque specs are there for liability reasons. Being a bike mechanic in a shop for 3 years, I used a torque wrench ONCE. It was so that a customer, who kept complaining about his crank coming loose couldn't come back and say that the crank bolt wasn't torqued to spec (he was an engineer, so I think he checked). The problem turned out to be that he was disassembling his cranks after muddy rides to clean them and over greasing the threads on the crank bolts...[img]cyclingforums.comrolleyes.gifOpen ↗[/img].

Who's liability, the mechanic's, the bike shop's, the part manufacture's, or all three?

Anyone who gets named in the lawsuit![img]cyclingforums.comwink.gifOpen ↗[/img] The manufacturer so they can say there is a torque spec in order for the bolt to work properly; the bike shop, so they can say they are aware of the torque spec; and the bike mechanic, so he can say that he was trained properly to use a torque wrench to torque the bolt to spec...or something like that...law is soooo confusing sometimes..[img]cyclingforums.comtongue.gifOpen ↗[/img]

I've found where Shimano has put the current exploded drawings with part numbers on its web site. But I find no assembly instructions and no torque specs. Surely there must be some. Anyone know how they are disseminated?

DMF said:

I've found where Shimano has put the current exploded drawings with part numbers on its web site. But I find no assembly instructions and no torque specs. Surely there must be some. Anyone know how they are disseminated?

When you selected the part you wanted, you clicked on "EXPLODED VIEW." You should have clicked on "TECHNICAL SERVICE INSTRUCTIONS." All the torque settings are there.

lks said:

If the wheel manufacturer doesn't spec a torque, you don't need to. But there are open end and box wrench attachments for torque wrenches.

I think the point that was being made is that the axel nuts have to be tight but not too tight. You tighten them, spin the wheel in your hands. You go through a process of backing off if there is binding and tightening if there is play in the bearings. There is no formula or specific torque. The current campy design for the rear hub is way easier than the Shimano one.

The only thing I use a torque wrench for is for bottom brackets and cranks. Everything else can be done by feel. It is really easy to twist the heads off titanium bolts, though.

Bro Deal said:

I think the point that was being made is that the axel nuts have to be tight but not too tight. You tighten them, spin the wheel in your hands. You go through a process of backing off if there is binding and tightening if there is play in the bearings. There is no formula or specific torque. The current campy design for the rear hub is way easier than the Shimano one.

The only thing I use a torque wrench for is for bottom brackets and cranks. Everything else can be done by feel. It is really easy to twist the heads off titanium bolts, though.

How about my Zero Gravity Ti brakes and carbon fiber stem, "can they just be done by feel?" And my Mavic Kysrium ES two piece rear axel?

lks said:

How about my Zero Gravity Ti brakes and carbon fiber stem, "can they just be done by feel?" And my Mavic Kysrium ES two piece rear axel?

Haven't wrenched much, have you?