A PIZZA PUZZLE

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I made a deep dish pizza yesterday. Had the bread machine whip up a batch of dough Put it in a 9 x
13 lasagna pan.

Used tomato sauce with garlic powder and oregano. Sprinkle of shredded cheddar and Lots of
shredded mozzarella It turned out looking beautiful.

But the tomato sauce layer was bitter. ????

I have tried all kinds of tomato sauces for pizza. I think the best choice is an uncooked sauce made
from peeled, seeded Roma tomatoes with a little garlic, olive oil, salt, pepper, and oregano. I find
that canned tomato sauce gives unsatisfactory results similar to what you experienced.

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I made a deep dish pizza yesterday. Had the bread machine whip up a batch of dough Put it in a 9 x
13 lasagna pan.

Used tomato sauce with garlic powder and oregano. Sprinkle of shredded cheddar and Lots of
shredded mozzarella It turned out looking beautiful.

But the tomato sauce layer was bitter. ????

I don't understand it. I've tasted the garlic powder, the oregano, and there's nothing unusual.
Could I have gotten a can of bitter tomato sauce ?

Yes. I always cook my sauce with caramelized onions and peppers, spices and add some corn syrup or
sugar to cut the acidity/bitterness.

Quoted message said:

Maybe the shredded cheddar reacted funny ?

Possibly.

Quoted message said:

Any clues ? suggestions?

Try it again. 🙂

-L.

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I made a deep dish pizza yesterday. Had the bread machine whip up a batch of dough Put it in a 9 x
13 lasagna pan.

Used tomato sauce with garlic powder and oregano. Sprinkle of shredded cheddar and Lots of
shredded mozzarella It turned out looking beautiful.

But the tomato sauce layer was bitter. ????

I don't understand it. I've tasted the garlic powder, the oregano, and there's nothing unusual.
Could I have gotten a can of bitter tomato sauce ? Maybe the shredded cheddar reacted funny ?

Any clues ? suggestions?

( I've made this pizza before without a problem ) <rj>

I'd suspect the sauce; it might be a good idea to taste the sauce before you add it next time.

Jack Sample

"Vox Humana" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I made a deep dish pizza yesterday. Had the bread machine whip up a batch of dough Put it in a 9
x 13 lasagna pan.

Used tomato sauce with garlic powder and oregano. Sprinkle of shredded cheddar and Lots of
shredded mozzarella It turned out looking beautiful.

But the tomato sauce layer was bitter. ????

I have tried all kinds of tomato sauces for pizza. I think the best choice is an uncooked sauce
made from peeled, seeded Roma tomatoes with a little garlic, olive oil, salt, pepper, and oregano.
I find that canned tomato sauce gives unsatisfactory results similar to what you experienced.

Here's a recipe I found & used from allrecipes.com that was surprisingly good ...

1 (6ounce) can tomato paste 6 fluid ounces warm water (110 degrees F/45 degrees C) 3 tablespoons
grated Parmesan cheese 1 teaspoon minced garlic 2 tablespoons honey 1 teaspoon anchovy paste
(optional)
2/4 teaspoon onion powder
3/4 teaspoon dried oregano
4/4 teaspoon dried marjoram
5/4 teaspoon dried basil
6/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
7/8 teaspoon cayenne pepper
8/8 teaspoon dried red pepper flakes salt to taste

Mix it all together and let sit for half an hour for the flavors to get together.

I used the anchovy paste and as per suggestions on the boards at allrecipes, used half the honey.
You could probably even use 1/3 as it was still a hair too sweet, imo.

Mike

[email hidden] (Greykits) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I've been making pizzas since I was in my teens. I used to simmer a sauce for hours, but the 6 oz.
can of tomato paste mixed with water and maybe some wine works well - I happen to like an intense
tomato flavor. I've ordered some pizzas before and had to ask, where's the sauce? I like to
sprinkle the herbs over the sauce.

There was a guy on PBS in the 80's, some sort of pizza chef. He gave me some good ideas. He put
the cornmeal on the greased pan, which I do. His dough wasn't perfectly rolled out like a pie
crust, and he didn't slather sauce on all of the surface. He put a little cheese over the crust
first, before all the rest went on.

My pizzas tend to be deep dish, but now that I have a cookie sheet with the air in the middle, I
make one deep dish and one thin pie. Guess what's for dinner tomorrow?

We did pizza for New Year's and it was the first time I had made "real" pizza. I did it on a pizza
stone in a 515 degree oven (6:30-
7:30 minutes depending on the amount of toppings). I sufferred for not having a pizza peel but
I made do with the back of a non-stick baking sheet and didn't mess up any of the pizzas
*too* badly...

I also used a trick I had read about and got the dough from a local pizzaria. The guy looked at me a
bit funny when I asked, but was pretty quick on his feet when he realized he could make some money
(he was one of the managers). I got 8 balls of dough for $2 each and they were each big enough to
make a 12-inch pie. I'd much rather do that than actually have to make it ... 🙂

Mike

Mike Webster said:

[email hidden] (Greykits) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I've been making pizzas since I was in my teens. I used to simmer a sauce for hours, but the 6
oz. can of tomato paste mixed with water and maybe some wine works well - I happen to like an
intense tomato flavor. I've ordered some pizzas before and had to ask, where's the sauce? I like
to sprinkle the herbs over the sauce.

There was a guy on PBS in the 80's, some sort of pizza chef. He gave me some good ideas. He put
the cornmeal on the greased pan, which I do. His dough wasn't perfectly rolled out like a pie
crust, and he didn't slather sauce on all of the surface. He put a little cheese over the crust
first, before all the rest went on.

My pizzas tend to be deep dish, but now that I have a cookie sheet with the air in the middle, I
make one deep dish and one thin pie. Guess what's for dinner tomorrow?

We did pizza for New Year's and it was the first time I had made "real" pizza. I did it on a pizza
stone in a 515 degree oven (6:30-
7:30 minutes depending on the amount of toppings). I sufferred for not having a pizza peel but I
made do with the back of a non-stick baking sheet and didn't mess up any of the pizzas *too*
badly...

Get a pizza screen. You'll never look back. You won't need the peel or the cornmeal, but you can use
the peel if you want to.

Quoted message said:

I also used a trick I had read about and got the dough from a local pizzaria. The guy looked at me
a bit funny when I asked, but was pretty quick on his feet when he realized he could make some
money (he was one of the managers). I got 8 balls of dough for $2 each and they were each big
enough to make a 12-inch pie. I'd much rather do that than actually have to make it ... 🙂

Mike

Publix Supermarkets also sell pizza dough in the bakery department. It's usually in the refrigerated
case with the cheese cakes. The ball makes a couple of 14" pies.

BOB

BOB said:

Get a pizza screen. You'll never look back. You won't need the peel or the cornmeal, but you can
use the peel if you want to.

OOPS! Here's the URL for the pizza screens: abestkitchen.compizza.htmlOpen ↗

" BOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Mike Webster said:

[email hidden] (Greykits) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I've been making pizzas since I was in my teens. I used to simmer a sauce for hours, but the 6
oz. can of tomato paste mixed with water and maybe some wine works well - I happen to like an
intense tomato flavor. I've ordered some pizzas before and had to ask, where's the sauce? I like
to sprinkle the herbs over the sauce.

There was a guy on PBS in the 80's, some sort of pizza chef. He gave me some good ideas. He put
the cornmeal on the greased pan, which I do. His dough wasn't perfectly rolled out like a pie
crust, and he didn't slather sauce on all of the surface. He put a little cheese over the crust
first, before all the rest went on.

My pizzas tend to be deep dish, but now that I have a cookie sheet with the air in the middle, I
make one deep dish and one thin pie. Guess what's for dinner tomorrow?

We did pizza for New Year's and it was the first time I had made "real" pizza. I did it on a
pizza stone in a 515 degree oven
(6:30- 7:30 minutes depending on the amount of toppings). I sufferred for not having a pizza peel
but I made do with the back of a non-stick baking sheet and didn't mess up any of the pizzas
*too* badly...

Get a pizza screen. You'll never look back. You won't need the peel or the cornmeal, but you can
use the peel if you want to.

Does it compare favorably? I would think that the intense heat of the pizza stone as well as its
ability to hold onto heat would transfer heat over to the pizza better than the air (it's not a
convection oven after all). Is the time you cook / temperature you cook at with one of these
comparable?

Mike

Mike Webster said:

" BOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Mike Webster said:

We did pizza for New Year's and it was the first time I had made "real" pizza. I did it on a
pizza stone in a 515 degree oven
(6:30- 7:30 minutes depending on the amount of toppings). I sufferred for not having a pizza
peel but I made do with the back of a non-stick baking sheet and didn't mess up any of the
pizzas *too* badly...

Get a pizza screen. You'll never look back. You won't need the peel or the cornmeal, but you can
use the peel if you want to.

Does it compare favorably? I would think that the intense heat of the pizza stone as well as its
ability to hold onto heat would transfer heat over to the pizza better than the air (it's not a
convection oven after all). Is the time you cook / temperature you cook at with one of these
comparable?

Mike

No stick, you can use the peel if you want, or not. It's not thick enough to allow any real amount
of air between the stone and the pizza, just a convenience.

BOB

Did you simmer the tomato sauce with the spices for a bit? Sometimes doing that and adding a pinch
of sugar can help a whole lot, in my experience.

Maybe it was just a bum can, who knows. '

CHris

"<RJ>" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I made a deep dish pizza yesterday. Had the bread machine whip up a batch of dough Put it in a 9 x
13 lasagna pan.

Used tomato sauce with garlic powder and oregano. Sprinkle of shredded cheddar and Lots of
shredded mozzarella It turned out looking beautiful.

But the tomato sauce layer was bitter. ????

I don't understand it. I've tasted the garlic powder, the oregano, and there's nothing unusual.
Could I have gotten a can of bitter tomato sauce ? Maybe the shredded cheddar reacted funny ?

Any clues ? suggestions?

( I've made this pizza before without a problem ) <rj>

Tyler Florence used this simple recipe on one of his December 2003 911 TV shows; I tried it, I
like it because it is quick and simple. He says the marjoram makes a difference -- instead of
using oregano.

2 tablespoons olive oil

1 garlic clove, crushed

1 (28-ounce) can tomato puree

1 teaspoon dried marjoram

1 teaspoon dried basil

Salt and fresh ground pepper, to taste

Over medium heat, heat oil in a saucepan until hot. Add all ingredients, cover and bring to a boil.
Uncover, lower heat and allow to simmer for 30 minutes.

Dee

Quoted message said:

"Dee Randall" flubs:

RJ said:

I made a deep dish pizza yesterday. Used tomato sauce with garlic powder and oregano. Sprinkle of
shredded cheddar and Lots of shredded mozzarella It turned out looking beautiful. But the tomato
sauce layer was bitter. ????

Don't do that, use canned whole tomatoes, broken by hand... do NOT pre-cook!

Quoted message said:

I tried it, I like it because it is quick and simple.

Like you.

Quoted message said:

2 tablespoons olive oil 1 garlic clove, crushed 1 (28-ounce) can tomato puree 1 teaspoon dried
marjoram 1 teaspoon dried basil Salt and fresh ground pepper, to taste Over medium heat, heat oil
in a saucepan until hot. Add all ingredients, cover and bring to a boil. Uncover, lower heat and
allow to simmer for 30 minutes.

That's dumb... do you not think the sauce will cook while the pizza is baking in a HOT oven? duh

If a cooked sauce is used for pizza it will have reduced and have become somewhat
caramelized... then when it bakes in a hot oven it will burn and become bitter... do NOT use
cooked sauce for pizza!

---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =--- ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =--- Sheldon
```````````` "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

"PENMART01" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Dee Randall" flubs:

RJ said:

I made a deep dish pizza yesterday. Used tomato sauce with garlic powder and oregano. Sprinkle
of shredded cheddar and Lots of shredded mozzarella It turned out looking beautiful. But the
tomato sauce layer was bitter. ????

Don't do that, use canned whole tomatoes, broken by hand... do NOT

pre-cook!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I tried it, I like it because it is quick and simple.

Like you.

Quoted message said:

2 tablespoons olive oil 1 garlic clove, crushed 1 (28-ounce) can tomato puree 1 teaspoon dried
marjoram 1 teaspoon dried basil Salt and fresh ground pepper, to taste Over medium heat, heat oil
in a saucepan until hot. Add all ingredients, cover and bring to a boil. Uncover, lower heat and
allow to simmer for 30 minutes.

That's dumb... do you not think the sauce will cook while the pizza is

baking

Quoted message said:

in a HOT oven? duh

If a cooked sauce is used for pizza it will have reduced and have become somewhat
caramelized... then when it bakes in a hot oven it will burn and become bitter... do NOT use
cooked sauce for pizza!

I saw a cook on tv doing what you are saying the other day - not cooking the tomatoes; I forget
what he used in addition to the tomatoes on the pizza. Actually I think that is a very good idea
for a fresher tasing pizza.

What in addition to the canned tomatoes do you use for your pizza -- I'm not talking about a "loaded-
up" pizza -- but, the standard tomatoes+ingredients.

Thanks, Not a dummy and always willing to listen to reasonable people, Dee

Dee Randall wrote:>

Quoted message said:

What in addition to the canned tomatoes do you use for your pizza -- I'm not talking about a "loaded-
up" pizza -- but, the standard tomatoes+ingredients.

In Italy we just crush up canned tomatoes, add a pinch of sugar, some salt and pepper and some basil
or oregano if we feel like it. Then we only put a light coating of it on the base. Really makes a
huge difference in the flavors. We also do a lot of pizza with sliced tomatoes and fresh mozzarella,
a drizzle of olive oil and some salt and papper. Nothing else. Or you could always go with what we
call ciaccino here, just the pizza base with toppings no sauce.

Cristina
--
Info on Moving to Italy and Driving in Italy cristinasweb.comcristinasweb.comOpen ↗