Cycling Equipment · Public discussion

a new form of bicycle?

Started by Fred Clydesdale · · Last activity · 28 posts · 1,421 views

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Cycling Equipment
Published
13 August 2005
Last activity
30 August 2005
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Fred Clydesdale
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  1. http://groups.msn.com/ideasbycwwinson/transportrescue.msnw?action=get_message&mvi
    ew=0&ID_Message=218&LastModified=4675497733377010044

    is this the new form of bicycle we have been hearing about over the past few
    weeks? while it's certainly different, a similar drive system was developed
    previously (i remember it from the early 70's, though i'm sure other forms
    predated that). the version i recall had a set of freewheel-like mechanisms
    attached to a drive chain which was in turn attached to the pedals. since there
    were independent mechanisms on each side, it could be "pedaled" either
    alternately, like a bicycle (or walking, since the motion was entirely vertical)
    or in tandem!

    anybody else remember these?

  2. someone writes:

    http://tinyurl.com/7tx95

    Quoted message said:

    Is this the new form of bicycle we have been hearing about over the
    past few weeks? while it's certainly different, a similar drive
    system was developed previously (I remember it from the early 70's,
    though I'm sure other forms predated that). the version I recall
    had a set of freewheel-like mechanisms attached to a drive chain
    which was in turn attached to the pedals. since there were
    independent mechanisms on each side, it could be "pedaled" either
    alternately, like a bicycle (or walking, since the motion was
    entirely vertical) or in tandem!

    Alenax!

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/alenax.html

    The above device looks more like a scam, considering how little
    information is given and no pictures of the mechanism. Besides,
    who wants a bicycle with a front wheel the size of a roller skate.
    If this is really a sincere proposal then it fits in the same place
    as Alenax.

    Jobst Brandt

  3. On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 20:16:28 GMT, Fred Clydesdale
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    snippage

    Quoted message said:

    anybody else remember these?

    I seem to remember this coming up several times. It's certainly
    nothing new.

    larry

  4. "Larry Schuldt" wrote: (clip) It's certainly nothing new.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    It's certainly nothing better, either. The claim is that this is more
    efficient than a conventional chain drive. That is hardly possible,
    considering that bicyle chain/sprocket systems miss 100% efficiency by a
    very small margin.

  5. Fred Clydesdale said:

    http://groups.msn.com/ideasbycwwinson/transportrescue.msnw?action=get_message&mvi
    ew=0&ID_Message=218&LastModified=4675497733377010044

    Here is a better link:

    short:
    http://qurl.com/68d0

    long:
    http://groups.msn.com/ideasbycwwinson/transportrescue.msnw?action=get_message&ID_Message=218

    Quoted message said:

    the version i recall had a set of freewheel-like mechanisms
    attached to a drive chain which was in turn attached to the
    pedals. since there were independent mechanisms on each side,
    it could be "pedaled" either alternately, like a bicycle
    (or walking, since the motion was entirely vertical)
    or in tandem!

    Sounds like the Alenax:

    http://www.eandsweb.com/cgi-bin/bikes.cgi?bike=AlenaxTRB-5000

    --
    "Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
    to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
    it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

  6. LioNiNoiL said:

    Here is a better link:

    Quoted message said:

    http://qurl.com/68d0

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The version I recall had a set of freewheel-like mechanisms
    attached to a drive chain which was in turn attached to the pedals.
    Since there were independent mechanisms on each side, it could be
    "pedaled" either alternately, like a bicycle (or walking, since the
    motion was entirely vertical) or in tandem!

    Quoted message said:

    Sounds like the Alenax:

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.eandsweb.com/cgi-bin/bikes.cgi?bike=AlenaxTRB-5000

    Interesting. The pictures Alenax is a later version, the first ones
    did not have a crossover link, the cable connecting the two chains
    under the cranks and had a separate return spring for each crank. As
    I mentioned in my write-up, this prevented standing up on the pedals
    that would each go to ground scraping levels if you tried.

    That the inventor was not a bicyclist and had not tried his invention
    was obvious to me at the first InterBike show at which it was shown.

    Jobst Brandt

  7. LioNiNoiL said:

    Here is a better link:

    Quoted message said:

    http://qurl.com/68d0

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The version I recall had a set of freewheel-like mechanisms
    attached to a drive chain which was in turn attached to the pedals.
    Since there were independent mechanisms on each side, it could be
    "pedaled" either alternately, like a bicycle (or walking, since the
    motion was entirely vertical) or in tandem!

    Quoted message said:

    Sounds like the Alenax:

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.eandsweb.com/cgi-bin/bikes.cgi?bike=AlenaxTRB-5000

    Interesting. The pictured Alenax is a later version, the first ones
    did not have a crossover link, the cable connecting the two chains
    under the cranks and had a separate return spring for each crank. As
    I mentioned in my write-up, this prevented standing up on the pedals
    that would each go to ground scraping levels if you tried.

    That the inventor was not a bicyclist and had not tried his invention
    was obvious to me at the first InterBike show at which it was shown.

    Jobst Brandt

  8. Fred Clydesdale said:

    http://groups.msn.com/ideasbycwwinson/transportrescue.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=218&LastModified=4675497733377010044

    is this the new form of bicycle we have been hearing about over the past
    few weeks? while it's certainly different, a similar drive system was
    developed previously (i remember it from the early 70's, though i'm sure
    other forms predated that).

    The basic idea of treading goes back at least as far as 1905 in the
    Levocyclette, or the 1885 (?) Singer 'Xtraordinary. At least there's a
    good reason for it on the Singer. The Levocette has a very complicated
    mechanism for changing gear, which looks like more trouble than it's
    worth. Perhaps the "designer" of this Walkicycle has avoided the problem
    by making it single speed? In which case his (?) comments about always
    having to stand on the pedals on hills make sense (FSVO....).

    Mike

  9. Hi Mike

    By chance I found the post talking about my invention.

    It is patent pending in china and hope you guys can help working on it.

    Quoted message said:

    making it single speed?


    It is not. The simple mechanism can do it all.

    It always run at the best power position we ride. That is the point we
    exert the force on pedal.

    The innovation goes to other part of bicycle too.

    Actually, why I give it the name walkicyle, The way it ride is not
    cycling. but a little bit like stepping or walking.

    I hope working with some manufacturer who like this design.

    The picture on the webpage is not the final product, but a draft.

    Conntact me if any one interested to help.
    [email hidden]

    regards,
    cwwinson

  10. winnobizi said:

    Hi Mike

    By chance I found the post talking about my invention.

    It is patent pending in china and hope you guys can help working on it.

    Okay, I'll help:

    |Walkicycle (TM)
    |designed by cwwinson 2004
    |
    | Walkicycle has two model. One has a size just like normal bicycle. and
    |one like scooter.

    Walkicycle has been designed in two different models. One is sized like a
    normal bicycle and the other like a scooter.
    |
    | Design is simple and less mechanical parts, Non chain driven system so
    |it has higher efficiency than traditional one. And less repairing and
    |replacement of parts. Weight lighter than traditional one.

    The design is a simple one with fewer mechanical parts, not using the old
    inefficient traditional chain driven system, but instead a new and
    improved system which weighs less and can be more easily repaired.

    | No learning, No repairing, No Parking (scooter version) is the user
    |experience. Faster, powerful and lighter is the nature of this product. In
    |traditional bicycle we drive by circling the paddle and this one will
    |just need stepping and that why I called it walkicycle.

    It's a 'pedal'.

    | Why it is powserful? When we drive uphill, normally we will stand up

    'powerful'. Ride uphill, driving is what cars do.

    |and use our body weight to exert more force on paddles. And this will
    |cause maximum power . Accually, that point is the only action that apply
    |force. Walkicycle is designed base on this.
    |
    | If you are interested in developing this product, I think you need to
    |have some background in bicycle business, i.e. you are manufacturer or you
    |have big market share. If you are entrepreneurs smart enough to conquer
    |this market with great experience with record , I will consider .
    |
    |Don't ask me samples !
    |
    | I will give you prototype after agreement is signed.

    "Don't ask me for samples without a signed agreement."

    Here's some more free advice (which is worth what you paid for it): I
    don't think there's an entrepreneur in the world that's going to invest in
    this unless you come up with a clear and convincing business plan,
    including sales goals, a working prototype that they can see and touch,
    and a commitment from you that if they invest, you will work on it
    full-time for at least several years, and they're not going to want to
    'invest' in paying your salary for that time either -- you'll have to make
    it on your savings.

    If you truly believe in your product, make one or several prototypes at
    your own cost. No venture capitalist will take a risk on someone who
    doesn't believe in his product, and the only way you have of making it
    clear you believe in your product is to spend some of your own money on
    it. Not to mention that if they can try it out for themselves, they can
    judge whether they like the feel of it.

    Another hint, this time from the web guy in me: Register domain names
    *now*. walkicycle.com/net/org, .co.uk, and in your local country (Are you
    Italian? Then that's .it). If you can't get all of those or at *least* the
    ..com and your local one, think of a new name for your product, register
    the accompanying domain names, and only then publish that name. You're
    going to need to have serious web marketing or a large dealer network to
    make this profitable, and a large dealer network you ain't got.

    Now from the cycle guy in me: I don't believe in this product. I don't
    think a random venture capitalist would, either, especially not without
    trying it out -- they tend to make noises like "if this is so great, why
    hasn't anyone else done it before?" -- and as a bike guy I know of at
    least two previous attempts to do something similar. Maybe your product is
    revolutionary and you've solved all the previous problems -- fair enough.
    Convince me, convince the rest of rbt that you have something worth
    checking out. But I warn you, we're a hard audience to this kind of thing.

    One more from the business side: Are you from China? If you want to sell
    your idea to investors from europe and the US, you'll need more than a
    Chinese patent, you'll need EU/UK/US patents (screw me if I know if the UK
    is part of an EU patent system or if there even is one -- check with your
    IP lawyer).

    From the technical angle: On the picture it looks like two pedal levers
    going directly to the rear axle which are then attached in some way.
    Ratchets? If it's ratchets, it does have a gear ratio, and only one of
    them. That will keep it out of the european and US markets for the most
    part, unless it's vastly cheaper than existing single speed/coaster brake
    bikes which aren't all that common outside the UK and the Netherlands
    either (especially not in new sales). In China, where single speed bikes
    *are* widely used, you may have a shot at the low end of the market if you
    can get them sufficiently cheap at introduction.

    Jasper

  11. Many thank Jasper,

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think there's an entrepreneur in the world that's going to invest in


    this unless you come up with a clear and convincing business plan,

    What I am seeking is some experience player who is capable of seeking
    venture capitalist. That is risking with me to get venture capitalist's
    money and do the job. In other words, the best of all, by helping me
    at early stage, you are getting the venture money and earn with my
    designs. Only this partner will know the detail .

    I am not seeking venture capitalist here. Instead, we will go seeking
    venture funds togather.

    I will let this partner do the business with his experience in the
    industry , selling and manufacturing. I can get you manufacturers in
    china. But you should take care of global market or at least where you
    familiar. You got best bargaining power here as you have stakes! You
    can own the bigger part of it. . Inventors not all the time got the
    power to do business as wish. But make him your help to earn more.That
    is the point here. Can you see the opportunities?

    How many prototypes will you dump in your factory? How much is it? I
    can do it in china any time at low cost but it is dangerous in
    disclosing the design.

    And I am asking how much it values for an sole agent in US if it clear
    all of your worries? I am interested to know....

    I cannot disclose too much else there is no surprise and no excitement
    at all. Customers and the industry want it
    And only one can be told.

    Patent can be extended to US and other place if you join me as a part.
    if I found partner before the end of this year.
    The other parts of the walkicycle can be patented anytime. This is what
    I need from my partner , the patent enforcement. It cost stakes...

    Since the driving system has other applications, therefore only in a
    way of license can it authorize the business to do it.

    I started it and wait for someone bring it to next step.

    Note: opportunity (return) is proportional to risk. if you are a good
    manager and hope you know how to manage it.

    you may also suggest me other form of cooperations . I am open minded
    and will consider if it is fair and honest.

    regards,
    winno

  12. winnobizi said:

    What I am seeking is some experience player who is capable of seeking
    venture capitalist. That is risking with me to get venture capitalist's
    money and do the job. In other words, the best of all, by helping me
    at early stage, you are getting the venture money and earn with my
    designs. Only this partner will know the detail .

    Well, I don't think I fit your criteria, but I wish you luck nonetheless.
    I'll look forward to seeing your invention on the market in n number of
    years.

    Jasper

  13. Quoting winnobizi <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    By chance I found the post talking about my invention.
    It is patent pending in china and hope you guys can help working on it.

    How enforceable do you suppose a patent on a Victorian-era invention is?
    --
    David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!
    Today is First Monday, August.

  14. Quoted message said:

    How enforceable do you suppose a patent on a Victorian-era invention is?


    --

    you are voiding all inventions and patents base on the physic in past
    centuries.
    Why patent office still grant patents?

    If there is nothing new, who cares?

    ..

  15. More mechniscal parts means more friction, do you agree ?

  16. winnobizi said:

    More mechniscal parts means more friction, do you agree ?

    Dear W.,

    No.

    A bicycle chain with literally hundreds of parts is
    amazingly efficient, typically transmitting 90% to 98% of
    the rider's effort.

    It would be surprising if your scheme, whatever it may be,
    was not illustrated over a century ago in Archibald Sharp's
    1896 "Bicycles & Tricycles," which you can buy (new or used)
    or obtain through a library. See Chapter 28, Lever and Crank
    Gearing.

    Or look in "Bicycling Science" by Whitt & Wilson, Chapter
    11, "Power Transmission."

    It's hard to think of a primary bicycle transmission not
    covered by direct-pedal, chain/belt, treadle, or
    shaft-drive. The first was how penny-farthings worked, the
    second is what we use today, and the last two provide forums
    like this with amusing topics.

    Carl Fogel

  17. Quoting winnobizi <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    How enforceable do you suppose a patent on a Victorian-era invention is?


    you are voiding all inventions and patents base on the physic in past
    centuries.

    No, I'm not. Answer the question; the Victorians had this, how do you
    propose to enforce a patent on it?
    --
    David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!
    Today is First Wednesday, August.

  18. Hi Carl Fogel
    Thanks for your attention,

    Well, may be repairing chains become a hobby or profession of you, but
    it certainly not my interests.
    I hated very much.

    What I believe is , from physic lesson, the more parts the less
    efficient.
    And what I recalled in my physics lesson, the bike with chain system as
    mechanical advantage less than 1.

    Do not mislead by its appearance and somebody said it look like bikes
    in 70's or What you guys called 1885 ago.

    That is what you guys feel just because it look similar.

    Actually I do not like it look similar to the current bike, That is
    style!
    It can be used in the current bike too!
    In addition, I do not want smart guys like you can understand the
    mechnism just at the first sight.

    I am protecting my partners once he is with me to work on this and I
    think nobody want it expose all.

    Similar not equivalent to identical.
    I should have cleared it earlier.

    I don't think having a smaller front wheel is ugly, I think the market
    is bore looking at the similar bikes with symetrical wheels.

    And that differentiate your product.

    Funny is a quality that sell too, don't forget this!

    But, I do want to know what chain system bike win the direct drive bike
    .. Any booked reasons?

    Many thanks ,
    & regards,
    cwwinson

  19. Hey similar is not identical..

    And judging by smaller front wheel is misleading...

    Can we say, space shuttle is not named "spaceplane" just because they
    are look similar?

    Ask reversely, can aeroplane fly like space shttle to the space?

    Can we say Mars is from Earth because both are spheres?

    Yes, I am a strange guy that do not like repeating what I have seen.
    You can say my idea is weird or funny, but that is me.

    regards,
    cwwinson

  20. winnobizi said:

    Hi Carl Fogel
    Thanks for your attention,

    Well, may be repairing chains become a hobby or profession of you,

    [snip]

    Dear W.,

    Worn chains are not repairable.

    They're simply replaced, like brake pads and tires.

    A typical chain lasts as long or longer than a pair of tires
    and costs less--it's hard to think of a more ridiculously
    inexpensive piece of precision-machined equipment.

    Carl Fogel

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