A new cell phone experience

email hidden said:

Pardon the rant.

On my commute to work this morning I was making a left turn on to a
side street. A BMW SUV was pulling out from the side street, also
making a left turn. I could see that the driver was on the phone and
didn't see me. So I yelled at him. I got his attention and, although
he continued to pull out, he slowed enough to not hit me.

As I went by his car I saw that his window as down and at the moment
he was no more than five feet from me. I yelled loudly "Get off the
phone".

Quoted message said:

From the look on his face it was obvious that my yelling at him did

not even register. His mind was totally absorbed by what he was
listening to on the phone, maybe his bank account, or a voice mail
from his boss telling him he's fired or who knows what. That blank
look was a totally new experience.

If someone yelling in his face doesn't register then his mind can't
possibly be focused enough for him to drive.

What can you possible do about someone like that? It seems like
Darwin in reverse. This moron will live and people like me will die.

End of rant.
Tom

Write your congressman.

Seriously. Write your congressman (sorry: congressional
representative).

California's implementing a "hands-free or nothing" law in something
like 7/08, BUT ... that seems like a gift to the hands-free
manufacturers; nothing more.

The studies all seem to agree that the problem isn't the hands; it's
the mind.

Write your congressional representative and urge them to implement a
distracted driver law. They can make it a primary infraction (can be
pulled over for that alone), a secondary infraction (if pulled over
for something else, they can then ticket you for the distraction, if
noted), or .... whatever.

I think it's a valid issue and a worthy cause. YMMV ... and hopefully
you'll get lots of mileage to HAVE it vary ;-)

Quoted message said:

Pardon the rant.

Il n'y a pas du quoi.

Quoted message said:

On my commute to work this morning I was making a left turn on to a
side street. A BMW SUV was pulling out from the side street, also
making a left turn. I could see that the driver was on the phone and
didn't see me. So I yelled at him. I got his attention and, although
he continued to pull out, he slowed enough to not hit me.

Quoted message said:

As I went by his car I saw that his window as down and at the moment
he was no more than five feet from me. I yelled loudly "Get off the
phone".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From the look on his face it was obvious that my yelling at him did

not even register. His mind was totally absorbed <snip>

Celling while driving is just as dangerous as driving drunk, and needs
to be treated accordingly. Meanwhile, yelling "hang up and drive" is
totally justified and potenitally useful.

Bill, who has nearly been clobbered by cellies many times.

__________________________________________________________________
| Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, |
| and I'm not sure about the former. |
| -Albert Einstein |
------------------------------------------------------------------

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What can you possible do about someone like that? It seems like
Darwin in reverse. This moron will live and people like me will die.

California's implementing a "hands-free or nothing" law in something
like 7/08, BUT ... that seems like a gift to the hands-free
manufacturers; nothing more.

The studies all seem to agree that the problem isn't the hands; it's
the mind.

Yup. Most people have trouble paying attention while driving without
adding additional distractions. I doubt hands-free makes any
difference.

Quoted message said:

Write your congressional representative and urge them to implement a
distracted driver law. They can make it a primary infraction (can be
pulled over for that alone), a secondary infraction (if pulled over
for something else, they can then ticket you for the distraction, if
noted), or .... whatever.

I'd prefer a ban on cellphones while driving. I believe England has
such a law on the books (with spotty enforcement).

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
The only real advantage to punk music is that nobody can whistle it.

[email hidden] wrote:
::
:: What can you possible do about someone like that? It seems like
:: Darwin in reverse.

Actually, not.

Quoted message said:

California's implementing a "hands-free or nothing" law in something
like 7/08, BUT ... that seems like a gift to the hands-free
manufacturers; nothing more.

The studies all seem to agree that the problem isn't the hands; it's
the mind.

I disagree that the law is useless. Even if driving distracted from having a
cell phone wired to your ear is dangerous, you're still at least sending a
message to drivers that cell phone use, in general, is something that can
create problems.

I'm curious how the law is going to go over with the average cop though.
Why? Because I have seen them *frequently* talking on cell phones,
presumably personal, while driving. My guess is that they're not allowed to
wear something (like a hands-free earpiece) that might interefere with their
ability to hear things while on the job, unless it's part of the job.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

email hidden said:

Pardon the rant.

On my commute to work this morning I was making a left turn on to a
side street. A BMW SUV was pulling out from the side street, also
making a left turn. I could see that the driver was on the phone and
didn't see me. So I yelled at him. I got his attention and, although
he continued to pull out, he slowed enough to not hit me.

As I went by his car I saw that his window as down and at the moment
he was no more than five feet from me. I yelled loudly "Get off the
phone".

Quoted message said:

From the look on his face it was obvious that my yelling at him did

not even register. His mind was totally absorbed by what he was
listening to on the phone, maybe his bank account, or a voice mail
from his boss telling him he's fired or who knows what. That blank
look was a totally new experience.

If someone yelling in his face doesn't register then his mind can't
possibly be focused enough for him to drive.

What can you possible do about someone like that? It seems like
Darwin in reverse. This moron will live and people like me will die.

End of rant.
Tom

Write your congressman.

Seriously. Write your congressman (sorry: congressional
representative).

California's implementing a "hands-free or nothing" law in something
like 7/08, BUT ... that seems like a gift to the hands-free
manufacturers; nothing more.

The studies all seem to agree that the problem isn't the hands; it's
the mind.

Write your congressional representative and urge them to implement a
distracted driver law. They can make it a primary infraction (can be
pulled over for that alone), a secondary infraction (if pulled over
for something else, they can then ticket you for the distraction, if
noted), or .... whatever.

I think it's a valid issue and a worthy cause. YMMV ... and hopefully
you'll get lots of mileage to HAVE it vary ;-)

Quoted message said:

[cell phone rant]
What can you possible do about someone like that?

Do your best to stay out of their way.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pardon the rant.

Il n'y a pas du quoi.

Quoted message said:

On my commute to work this morning I was making a left turn on to a
side street. A BMW SUV was pulling out from the side street, also
making a left turn. I could see that the driver was on the phone and
didn't see me. So I yelled at him. I got his attention and, although
he continued to pull out, he slowed enough to not hit me.

Quoted message said:

As I went by his car I saw that his window as down and at the moment
he was no more than five feet from me. I yelled loudly "Get off the
phone".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From the look on his face it was obvious that my yelling at him did

not even register. His mind was totally absorbed <snip>

Celling while driving is just as dangerous as driving drunk, and needs
to be treated accordingly. Meanwhile, yelling "hang up and drive" is
totally justified and potenitally useful.

Bill, who has nearly been clobbered by cellies many times.

This is why I cringe everytime I hear about a municipality passing
'hands-free' legislation. Forcing drivers to use hands-free cell phones
eliminates a critical clue we need to determine that a driver is distracted
by a phone call.

jb

Dane Buson said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What can you possible do about someone like that? It seems like
Darwin in reverse. This moron will live and people like me will die.

Quoted message said:

California's implementing a "hands-free or nothing" law in something
like 7/08, BUT ... that seems like a gift to the hands-free
manufacturers; nothing more.

Quoted message said:

The studies all seem to agree that the problem isn't the hands; it's
the mind.

Yup. Most people have trouble paying attention while driving without
adding additional distractions. I doubt hands-free makes any
difference.

So you're suggesting that the driver be cocooned in a box in the car
where they can't talk to other people in the car, listen to music or a
hands free phone. People have managed to drive a car and hold a
conversation for years, why does the fact the other person in the
converstion is on the end of a phone make any difference? Is it the
poor quality of reception, do we have to listen harder to a cell phone
conversation? All the test's I've seen compare driving in a quiet car
with no distractions to driving with a phone held to one ear. And yes
there will be a difference in response times, similiar maybe to being
drunk. But what about people who listen to loud music, have 4 kids in
the car or a bunch of chatty friends? Is cell phone use a worse
distraction than a crying baby on the back seat?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Write your congressional representative and urge them to implement a
distracted driver law. They can make it a primary infraction (can be
pulled over for that alone), a secondary infraction (if pulled over
for something else, they can then ticket you for the distraction, if
noted), or .... whatever.

I'd prefer a ban on cellphones while driving. I believe England has
such a law on the books (with spotty enforcement).

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
The only real advantage to punk music is that nobody can whistle it.

Marz said:

All the test's I've seen compare driving in a quiet car
with no distractions to driving with a phone held to one ear.

That makes only a small difference. A person's attention to the here
and now is much less when talking on a cell phone, even one that works
through car mounted speakers and phone, than when talking to someone
in the same car. Of course a person that is talking on a cell phone
with no other distractions and conciously attempting to pay attention
can do better than a clueless moron with four kids in the car, using
one hand to hold a cigarette and checking his or her hair in the rear
view mirror. The bottom line is that you are better off not trying any
of the above.

OTOH, it is statistically even more dangerous to pull to the side of
the road and talk. Unless you can pull into a safe parking area, you
are better off just putting off the call.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"Marz" wrote: (clip) why does the fact the other person in the converstion
is on the end of a phone make any difference? (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think I can answer that. As you talk on the phone, you are aware that the
other person does not know what is happening at your end. If you are
holding a conversation with the person next to you in the car, and a traffic
situation requires all your attention, you simply suspend the conversation,
and the person next to you understands this without need for any
explanation. Furthermore, when you are talking on the phone, the imagery in
your mind is on the other person. It takes a mental effort to return your
atention to the traffic.

"Curtis L. Russell" wrote: (clip) it is statistically even more dangerous
to pull to the side of the road and talk. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is what I usually do. What can you tell me that will convince me that
it is really that dangerous? How is it more dangerous than pulling over to
mail a letter, say?

On Feb 27, 12:19 pm, Curtis L. Russell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Marz said:

All the test's I've seen compare driving in a quiet car
with no distractions to driving with a phone held to one ear.

That makes only a small difference. A person's attention to the here
and now is much less when talking on a cell phone, even one that works
through car mounted speakers and phone, than when talking to someone
in the same car. Of course a person that is talking on a cell phone
with no other distractions and conciously attempting to pay attention
can do better than a clueless moron with four kids in the car, using
one hand to hold a cigarette and checking his or her hair in the rear
view mirror. The bottom line is that you are better off not trying any
of the above.

Agreed and why I think cell phone use as a distraction from driving
should not be singled out of all other possible distractions. I wonder
how may accidents are due to folks playing too close attention to
their gps device rather than the road ahead.

As a side note, our company policy is for the cell phone to be off
before entering the vehicle.

Quoted message said:

What can you possible do about someone like that?

Equip all cyclists with portable cell phone jammers. Unfortunately the
range of the portable devices is pretty low, so by the time the
offender's call is cut off it may be too late. They are primarily
designed for use in places like restaurants, etc.

Leo Lichtman said:

This is what I usually do. What can you tell me that will convince me that
it is really that dangerous? How is it more dangerous than pulling over to
mail a letter, say?

We aren't speaking generally of residential streets, which generally
don't have the break down lanes for pulling over. And stopping in a
travel lane to make a phone call is usually against the law.

Most occurences of pulling to the side of the road are on roadways
that have break down lanes, such as Interstates and higher speed
connectors. And whether you are doing it to change a tire or make a
phone call, it is about the most dangerous thing you can do. Police
and state troopers aren't real fond of it, either. Watch the news -
you'll see and hear a lot of cases of troopers with lights on and
flashing being hit by traffic.

In the area on or about the Mixing Bowl in the DC/VA area, they
recommend that you actually drive on your flat until you exit
completely.

Evidently it is better to travel at 20 mph on that portion of the
beltway than to stop on the side of the road.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Dane Buson said:

Yup. Most people have trouble paying attention while driving without
adding additional distractions. I doubt hands-free makes any
difference.

Hands-free makes a lot of difference, especially when you drive a
stick-shift. It should be pretty apparent if actually think about it.

Quoted message said:

I'd prefer a ban on cellphones while driving.

Then you probably also want to ban talking in a car? I don't see why
that is any different.

-as

On Feb 27, 10:30 am, Antti Salonen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Dane Buson said:

Yup. Most people have trouble paying attention while driving without
adding additional distractions. I doubt hands-free makes any
difference.

Hands-free makes a lot of difference, especially when you drive a
stick-shift. It should be pretty apparent if actually think about it.

Then you seem to disagree with all of the large-scale tests conducted
by groups like the Auto Club and Harvard School of Public Safety.

You /could/ be right in this case, but my money's on them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd prefer a ban on cellphones while driving.

Then you probably also want to ban talking in a car? I don't see why
that is any different.

Then you're missing a good number of pretty obvious factors that all
seem to prove out in simulator testing and over-the-road tests.

I've skimmed this one, but never read it in its entirety.

You may find it interesting in the context of this thread, though:

http://www.mobilesociety.net/uploadi/editor/strayer.pdf

On Feb 27, 1:30 pm, Antti Salonen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Dane Buson said:

Yup. Most people have trouble paying attention while driving without
adding additional distractions. I doubt hands-free makes any
difference.

Hands-free makes a lot of difference, especially when you drive a
stick-shift. It should be pretty apparent if actually think about it.

The issue isn't the lack of hands, so much as the mental engagement in
a remote conversation, rather than with the traffic and road.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd prefer a ban on cellphones while driving.

Then you probably also want to ban talking in a car? I don't see why
that is any different.

It's different because the typical car conversation involves two
people looking out the windshield. If a complicated situation arises,
your passenger knows enough to shut up. In fact, they'll probably
stop chatting and give you a warning.

Furthermore, there's none of the fluster that comes with dropped calls
or reception fading in and out. There's none of the distraction that
comes from dialing, or digging a ringing phone out of a purse, holster
or pocket.

I could go on - but in general, I'd say if you can't see the
differences, you probably haven't thought about it much!

- Frank Krygowski

email hidden said:

What can you possible do about someone like that? It seems like
Darwin in reverse. This moron will live and people like me will die.

An AirZound can be pretty effective in freezing these no-yield
deadbeats. It isn't 100% effective though, so it pays to still be
extra cautious.