A New Brooks Saddle.... aaaagh!

"Chris Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

I think you have to have the right sort of bum to be comfortable on a
Brooks. I endured one for 10,000kms and it was agonising when new, and
creaked all the time, but I pedalled on believing the stories I read here
about needing to break it in. After 5000kms it was only mildly painful and
still creaked. By 10,000kms only mildly uncomfortable, but still creaked.
Finally one of the wire frame thingies snapped and I lost patience with it.
I chucked it out and bought a Selle Italia which was immediately
comfortable, is lighter, and doesn't make a sound. I know others on here
have differing experiences.

Chris Fox said:

A couple of weeks ago I gave into a whim of getting back on to a
Brooks saddle and bought a Professional (good price - £38 - from Spa
Cycles) after a 40 year lapse.

I followed advice to soak the saddle in warm neatsfoot oil for 30
minutes but that has NOT helped one bit - it is agony after only 30
minutes road riding. My problem is probably exacerbated by my lack of
fatty tissue in the necessary areas.

If anyone has any useful suggestions as to how I can endure this thing
until it has taken my shape (short of getting rid of it!), I would be
eternally grateful - but I have a horrible feeling (in several parts
of my anatomy) that perseverance is the only answer.

Persevere or decide you are not Brooks shape.
I concluded I was not a Brooks person after trying one some years ago.

I take the same view with saddles that I do with decent walking boots(*):
quality products which fit you (difficult bit being sorting out fit) do not
need breaking in; they are comfortable from the outset and remain
comfortable for many years of hard use. The problem with saddles is that
measurement methods for fit are less well understood than for feet, and even
feet are a bit of an art rather than science.

(*) boots being capable of tackling any UK mountain.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Chris Fox said:

If anyone has any useful suggestions as to how I can endure this thing
until it has taken my shape (short of getting rid of it!), I would be
eternally grateful - but I have a horrible feeling (in several parts of
my anatomy) that perseverance is the only answer.

You, as many people do, have got the wrong end of the stick. A Brooks
never takes you shape, you take its shape. So what you need to do is
marinade your bum in neatsfoot oil and lignocaine and sit down and wait ;-)

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Overnight in neatsfoot oil, painted on the back of the lather - leave upside
down for it to soak in.

Do this every night for a couple of weeks.

Put up with the pain for a few rides.

If it doesn't work do it again a few more times.

And don't forget - in cold weather the leather does not warm up and soften
as well as in warmer weather.

Do this and you'll never regret it!

"Chris Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A couple of weeks ago I gave into a whim of getting back on to a Brooks
saddle and bought a Professional (good price - £38 - from Spa Cycles) after
a 40 year lapse.

I followed advice to soak the saddle in warm neatsfoot oil for 30 minutes
but that has NOT helped one bit - it is agony after only 30 minutes road
riding. My problem is probably exacerbated by my lack of fatty tissue in
the necessary areas.

If anyone has any useful suggestions as to how I can endure this thing
until it has taken my shape (short of getting rid of it!), I would be
eternally grateful - but I have a horrible feeling (in several parts of my
anatomy) that perseverance is the only answer.

Oh well, I can but hope!
--
Chris

"R. Murphy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do this and you'll never regret it!

Or just buy a decent modern saddle and forget all that pain..

in message <[email hidden]>, Chris Fox

(') said:

A couple of weeks ago I gave into a whim of getting back on to a Brooks
saddle and bought a Professional (good price - £38 - from Spa Cycles)
after a 40 year lapse.

I followed advice to soak the saddle in warm neatsfoot oil for 30
minutes but that has NOT helped one bit - it is agony after only 30
minutes road riding. My problem is probably exacerbated by my lack of
fatty tissue in the necessary areas.

If you don't fit a Brooks you don't fit a Brooks and I don't really
believe there's anything you can do about it. I always find new
Professionals supremely comfortable from day one. It's possible that a
wider Brooks saddle would fit you better, but equally it's possible that
you are not the right shape to fit a Brooks, and vice versa.

IMHO, all that you'll achieve by soaking the saddle in neats foot oil or
any of the other 'magic' solutions which soften the leather is ruin the
saddle very quickly - if the leather is soft it very quickly stretches
to the point that the saddle is unusable by anyone.

Quoted message said:

If anyone has any useful suggestions as to how I can endure this thing
until it has taken my shape (short of getting rid of it!),

Get rid of it. If it isn't your shape it won't magically become your
shape. They do gradually adapt to the pelvis of the rider, but not very
much, and if they don't fit on day one they aren't going to. I'd offer
to buy it off you, but not if it's been soaked in neats foot.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'You cannot put "The Internet" into the Recycle Bin.'

On 02/02/2006 17:55, Chris Fox said,

Quoted message said:

I followed advice to soak the saddle in warm neatsfoot oil for 30
minutes but that has NOT helped one bit - it is agony after only 30
minutes road riding. My problem is probably exacerbated by my lack of
fatty tissue in the necessary areas.

Don't worry - it's only the first 30 *years* that are the worst!
Seriously, it is perseverance that counts. Over time the saddle moulds
itself to your, er, shape, and then you will find it very comfortable.
I must admit that I'd never heard of the neatsfoot oil thing, but I do
regularly proof it with Brooks Proofide, and that means underneath as
well. Maybe that helps, I dunno.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

I've found with modern saddles (or at least the few I've tried) that they
are very comfortable for the 1st half hour or so, but no longer, in hot
weather (lack of ventilation perhaps or maybe they mould themselves a bit
too closely to my shape )...

My Brookes saddle is quite the reverse - after the first half hour I go sort
of numb, then don't feel the discomfort .....

"Ric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"R. Murphy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do this and you'll never regret it!

Or just buy a decent modern saddle and forget all that pain..

"Chris Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A couple of weeks ago I gave into a whim of getting back on to a Brooks
saddle and bought a Professional (good price - £38 - from Spa Cycles) after
a 40 year lapse.

I followed advice to soak the saddle in warm neatsfoot oil for 30 minutes
but that has NOT helped one bit -

The problem is that modern neats foot oil is synthetic. If you could find
an old tin of real neats foot oil, made from real neats feet, it would do
the trick. Bit hard to come by these days though, what with the animal
rights people creating such a fuss about all these footless neats.

Rich said:

"Chris Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A couple of weeks ago I gave into a whim of getting back on to a
Brooks saddle and bought a Professional (good price - £38 - from Spa
Cycles) after a 40 year lapse.

I followed advice to soak the saddle in warm neatsfoot oil for 30
minutes but that has NOT helped one bit -

The problem is that modern neats foot oil is synthetic. If you could
find an old tin of real neats foot oil, made from real neats feet, it
would do the trick. Bit hard to come by these days though, what with
the animal rights people creating such a fuss about all these
footless neats.

You'll find on the packaging or tags that come with it, that Brooks don't
recommend the neatsfoot approach, as it softens that which should not be
soft. I've never had to break in a Brooks, but I suppose that's because I
rode one in my formative years and probably have Brooks-shaped parts by now.
I use a B17 standard though.
--

Martin Bulmer

Simon Brooke said:

IMHO, all that you'll achieve by soaking the saddle in neats foot oil
or any of the other 'magic' solutions which soften the leather is
ruin the saddle very quickly - if the leather is soft it very quickly
stretches to the point that the saddle is unusable by anyone.

Also, Neatsfoot oil adds a surprising amount of weight to an already heavy
saddle.... until your shorts/trousers have finished soaking it up some
months/years later.

On the other hand, Proofide does bugger all to soften a Brooks, IME.

~PB

Chris Fox said:

A couple of weeks ago I gave into a whim of getting back on to a Brooks
saddle and bought a Professional (good price - £38 - from Spa Cycles)
after a 40 year lapse.

I followed advice to soak the saddle in warm neatsfoot oil for 30
minutes but that has NOT helped one bit - it is agony after only 30
minutes road riding. My problem is probably exacerbated by my lack of
fatty tissue in the necessary areas.

I think your problem is you're basically the wrong shape to start with.
It will take more than half an hour of neatsfoot oil to substantially
change the shape of thick leater stretched over a steel frame.

With /all/ saddles, sit on them before parting with £££s. If they're
not immediately reasonably comfortable then it's the wrong one for your
shape.

My B66 was at least as comfortable, straight out the box, as the gel
saddle it replaced (and I'd been very happy with, I was replacing it
'cause it was dying, not because it was a nightmare to sit on). I
subsequently bought a B17 for the MTB and a Brooks Brompton for the
folder, all of which have been right for me from the outset. I'm not
/that/ lardy in the [censored] department.

Quoted message said:

If anyone has any useful suggestions as to how I can endure this thing
until it has taken my shape (short of getting rid of it!),

Get rid of it: it's wrong for you. Try out the replacements before you
buy them, what other people say they like isn't much use to you unless
they've tried them while wearing your backside.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Pete Biggs said:

On the other hand, Proofide does bugger all to soften a Brooks, IME.

It doesn't IME either, but AIUI it's not meant to. It's a preservative
and waterproofer, not a softener. Soften up the leather too much and it
will sag rather than support, which isn't the idea.

There should be enough give in the leather to let it shape a little, but
the basic shape needs to be right to start with. If it is, they're
great. If it isn't, I'd suspect considerable discomfort.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, Proofide does bugger all to soften a Brooks, IME.

It doesn't IME either, but AIUI it's not meant to. It's a
preservative and waterproofer, not a softener. Soften up the leather
too much and it will sag rather than support, which isn't the idea.

www.brookssaddles.com/docs/leather_saddle_care.pdf

Brooks claim Proofide also helps the "breaking-in process". It does not,
though. I never found it had much of a lasting effect when it came to
preserving or waterproofing either.

~PB

in message <[email hidden]>, Rich

(') said:

"Chris Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A couple of weeks ago I gave into a whim of getting back on to a Brooks
saddle and bought a Professional (good price - £38 - from Spa Cycles)
after a 40 year lapse.

I followed advice to soak the saddle in warm neatsfoot oil for 30
minutes but that has NOT helped one bit -

The problem is that modern neats foot oil is synthetic. If you could
find an old tin of real neats foot oil, made from real neats feet, it
would do
the trick. Bit hard to come by these days though, what with the animal
rights people creating such a fuss about all these footless neats.

A 'neat' in this context is just a bullock or stirk, and every time you
eat a macdogburger something has to be done with the hooves. There's
plenty of real neats foot oil still around, and it's great stuff to use
on leather which is meant to be soft. Brooks saddles are not meant to be
soft, and if you over-soften them they are ruined.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If God does not write LISP, God writes some code so similar to
;; LISP as to make no difference.

Chris Fox said:

If anyone has any useful suggestions as to how I can endure this thing
until it has taken my shape (short of getting rid of it!), I would be
eternally grateful - but I have a horrible feeling (in several parts of
my anatomy) that perseverance is the only answer.

I fear that the world may be divided into those whose bums are
Brooks-tolerant and those that aren't.

I have just started riding a new B17 Narrow after my old one failed
catastrophically[1]. The new saddle is basically comfortable, although
it was a bit hard on the first ride. I haven't had the chance to ride on
it for more than 90 minutes yet, so this weekend and next are likely to
be my first opportunities for longer rides.

[1] URC passim

Mike

"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I followed advice to soak the saddle in warm neatsfoot oil for
30 minutes but that has NOT helped one bit -

Quoted message said:

The problem is that modern neats foot oil is synthetic. If you could find
an old tin of real neats foot oil, made from real neats feet, it would do
the trick. Bit hard to come by these days though, what with the animal
rights people creating such a fuss about all these footless neats.

I think you'll find synthetic neatsfoot oil works o.k. on faux
leather.

However the difficulties of breeding faux in captivity, mean that
faux leather is rarely used for bicycle saddles any more.

Efforts in the 1950's to cross-breed neat and faux so as to produce
self softening bicycle saddles came to nothing either, I believe.

michael adams

....

michael adams

....

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

Brooks claim Proofide also helps the "breaking-in process".

But that does not say "softens the leather". It doesn't really say
anything particular about what it's doing there.

Quoted message said:

though. I never found it had much of a lasting effect when it came to
preserving or waterproofing either.

It's only really claimed to "showerproof", but I think the main effect
is to lessen the effect of a good wetting on saddle stretch.
As for lasting effect, that's why you reapply it, of course.

I haven't done comparative trials with and without, but an occasional
Proofide on my 3 Brooks Saddles hasn't been a problem and they're all in
good condition.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

michael adams said:

"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The problem is that modern neats foot oil is synthetic. If you could find
an old tin of real neats foot oil, made from real neats feet, it would do
the trick. Bit hard to come by these days though, what with the animal
rights people creating such a fuss about all these footless neats.

I think you'll find synthetic neatsfoot oil works o.k. on faux
leather.

However the difficulties of breeding faux in captivity, mean that
faux leather is rarely used for bicycle saddles any more.

Efforts in the 1950's to cross-breed neat and faux so as to produce
self softening bicycle saddles came to nothing either, I believe.

And the ban on faux hunting didn't help matters either.

Tim
--
Blue Witch laughed at me