A more suitable rear cassette

Ian wrote:

Apologies for top posting the response.

There are two possibilities here. One is that your friend does have a
closer ration rear cassette than you. The other is that he is more used
to spinning. Either of these will make it easier for him to maintain a
fast spin on the climbs.

If you want to change the rear cassette you will lose the easiest
gears, making up for it by having more in between. If you find that you
only use a small range of gears rather than the full range tehn you may
want to consider a closer ratio cassette. And practice spinning faster
as well.

At the end of the day, don't worry so much about what your friend is
doing, pedal at the rate and in the gear that is right for you.

...d

Quoted message said:

We went out cycling this morning and I noticed, pretty quickly, that
he was able to spin the peddles at a slightly higher rate than myself,
given our identical speed and similair index selection. This made it a
much more comfortable experience for him.

I live in an area that ensures that I will be doing a fair amount of
climbing. Another thing I noticed is that, when we hit an incline or
hill, whenever my friend changed gear, he was able to maintain his
speed at a steady constant, with minimal increase in cadence. Whilst
if I changed down, the change in ratios seamed very large and I would
slow down substantially. Conversley, when on a flat, or chasing
downhill, my cadence was substantially less than my friends, but as
soon as I had to drop a gear or two, the drop seemed too big and I
would be spinning like a git and getting nowhere slowly.

I have a Claud Butler Milano 2004. This has a Campagnolo Xenon
groupset (with 9 gear shifters) with a 39/52 crank, but I am unsure of
the rear cassette.

I suspect that the rear cassette may be less suited to the type of
cycling I am doing that those of my friends.

Quoted message said:

From the information I have given, are my suspicions correct? Or
should I be looking elsewhere to resolve this issue?

David Martin said:

If you want to change the rear cassette you will lose the easiest
gears, making up for it by having more in between. If you find that you
only use a small range of gears rather than the full range tehn you may
want to consider a closer ratio cassette. And practice spinning faster
as well.

At the end of the day, don't worry so much about what your friend is
doing, pedal at the rate and in the gear that is right for you.

Thank you for your reply.

I prefer the higher spin rate on the Trek. Currently, I'm finding it
much harder to climb hills on my bike compared to my friends.

If a closer ratio cassette will loose the lower ratios, then this will
be detrimental to climbing and cadence rate and therefore probably a
backward step.

I'm unsure of the current ratios on the Xenon cluster, but I suspect
it may be 12/23.

I notice, from www.compagnolo.com that the Xenon sets also come in
13/23 and 13/26 sets.

Surely, being larger sprockets with more teeth, this would make higher
cadence and hill climbing easier? Have I deduced this correctly, or
barking.... ;-)

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:19:52 +0100, Ian <[email hidden]> wrote:

oops

Quoted message said:

I notice, from www.campagnolo.com that the Xenon sets also come in

correct URL

Ian said:

Thank you for your reply.

I prefer the higher spin rate on the Trek. Currently, I'm finding it
much harder to climb hills on my bike compared to my friends.

If a closer ratio cassette will loose the lower ratios, then this will
be detrimental to climbing and cadence rate and therefore probably a
backward step.

I'm unsure of the current ratios on the Xenon cluster, but I suspect
it may be 12/23.

The 2005 Trek 1500 spec is 12/25 10sp on the back and 53/39 on the
front. So check that against what you have if you want to have
identical gears to your friend. But I suspect you will find there is
not much difference and it is the engine that is making the difference.
And that can't be fixed by tinkering with gear ratios.

Of course the Trek is Shimano which probably explains everything ;-)

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

in message <[email hidden]>, Ian

(') said:

I have a Claud Butler Milano 2004. This has a Campagnolo Xenon
groupset (with 9 gear shifters) with a 39/52 crank, but I am unsure of
the rear cassette.

Nice bike for the money.

Quoted message said:

I suspect that the rear cassette may be less suited to the type of
cycling I am doing that those of my friends.

Can anyone advise? Would it be a recommendation to replace the rear
cassette? If so, what should I be looking for? I take it that I would
need to replace with Campag kit (unless I was going to change the
entire groupset-not currently in my budget )

With a short-cage Campag rear derailleur you can go up to 13-26 on the
back with 39-52 at the front (13 teeth difference at each end, 26 teeth
total); with a medium cage you can go up to 13-29 at the back.

The 2004 Xenon (actually Mirage) cassettes were 12-23, 13-23 and 13-26.

I currently run the standard 39-53 at the front and a 13-26 at the back
and find that suits me quite well - I'm 49 and my local conditions are
plenty of big hills but few of them very steep.

What surprises me is that you say

Quoted message said:

if I changed down, the change in ratios seamed very large and I would
slow down substantially.

If you've got a Campag setup with anything smaller than a 13-26 on the
back then the gaps between your ratios are all or almost all just one
tooth - you cannot get smaller than that. If you are having a problem
downshifting you are going down too many gears at a time.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Just as defying the law of gravity through building aircraft requires
careful design and a lot of effort, so too does defying laws of
economics. It seems to be a deeply ingrained aspect of humanity to
forever strive to improve things, so unquestioning acceptance of a
free market system seems to me to be unnatural. ;; Charles Bryant

Ian said:

David Martin said:

If you want to change the rear cassette you will lose the easiest
gears, making up for it by having more in between. If you find that you
only use a small range of gears rather than the full range tehn you may
want to consider a closer ratio cassette. And practice spinning faster
as well.

At the end of the day, don't worry so much about what your friend is
doing, pedal at the rate and in the gear that is right for you.

Thank you for your reply.

I prefer the higher spin rate on the Trek. Currently, I'm finding it
much harder to climb hills on my bike compared to my friends.

You on your friends bike, or your friend on his bike?

Quoted message said:

If a closer ratio cassette will loose the lower ratios, then this will
be detrimental to climbing and cadence rate and therefore probably a
backward step.

Only if you use the gears you are losing. Cadence depends on gear and
speed. It also depends on the rider.

Quoted message said:

I'm unsure of the current ratios on the Xenon cluster, but I suspect
it may be 12/23.

I notice, from www.compagnolo.com that the Xenon sets also come in
13/23 and 13/26 sets.

Surely, being larger sprockets with more teeth, this would make higher
cadence and hill climbing easier? Have I deduced this correctly, or
barking.... ;-)

You are correct there, but you were complaining about too big a jump
between gears when changing down.

I think the problem is more likely to be with the engine. Try to spin
faster and you will get better at climbing hills. But the best way to
get better at climbing hills is to climb hills.

...d

In article <[email hidden]>, devnull@
127.0.0.1 says...

This:

Quoted message said:

We went out cycling this morning and I noticed, pretty quickly, that
he was able to spin the peddles at a slightly higher rate than myself,
given our identical speed and similair index selection. This made it a
much more comfortable experience for him.

Doesn't fit in with this:

Quoted message said:

....I had to drop a gear or two, the drop seemed too big and I
would be spinning like a git and getting nowhere slowly.

Perhaps you just have to get used to it? Don't use the same sprocket as
your friend, your cassette may be different.

--
Mike

"Ian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a Claud Butler Milano 2004. This has a Campagnolo Xenon
groupset (with 9 gear shifters) with a 39/52 crank, but I am unsure of
the rear cassette.

Count the number of teeth of smallest and largest sprockets and let us know.
Proper advice can't be given without this crucial info.

You might be better off with a larger cassette or/and a different type of
crankset.

~PB

in message <[email hidden]>, Ian

(') said:

David Martin said:

If you want to change the rear cassette you will lose the easiest
gears, making up for it by having more in between. If you find that you
only use a small range of gears rather than the full range tehn you may
want to consider a closer ratio cassette. And practice spinning faster
as well.

At the end of the day, don't worry so much about what your friend is
doing, pedal at the rate and in the gear that is right for you.

Thank you for your reply.

I prefer the higher spin rate on the Trek.

There's nothing magic about the Trek. It doesn't have a Trek
transmission. It has a Shimano transmission, but the only thing that's
significantly different from your bike is that it has a triple chainset
at the front (i.e. 27 gears) and yours has a double.

To give your bike the same ratios as his you need one of these:

<URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?ProdID=5360007737>
(Campagnolo Xenon Triple Crankset, £45), one of these:
<URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?ProdID=5360007762>
(Campagnolo Xenon Rear Derailleur - long cage, £25) and, probably, one of
these
<URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?ProdID=5360007775>
(Campagnolo Veloce Triple Bottom Bracket - OS Seat Tube, £6.99)

Check the size of the bottom bracket you need because it depends on the
diameter of your seat tube, but seeing the Milano is an aluminium frame
I expect you'll need the 115.5mm version.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Campagnolo Veloce Triple Bottom Bracket - OS Seat Tube, £6.99)

Check the size of the bottom bracket you need because it depends on the
diameter of your seat tube, but seeing the Milano is an aluminium frame
I expect you'll need the 115.5mm version.

Except it'll be worth trying the existing 111mm first for the better
chainline. It's not supposed to be suitable for 32mm seat tube + triple
chainset but it worked with mine.

~PB

Ian said:

I live in an area that ensures that I will be doing a fair amount of
climbing. Another thing I noticed is that, when we hit an incline or
hill, whenever my friend changed gear, he was able to maintain his
speed at a steady constant, with minimal increase in cadence. Whilst
if I changed down, the change in ratios seamed very large and I would
slow down substantially. Conversley, when on a flat, or chasing
downhill, my cadence was substantially less than my friends, but as
soon as I had to drop a gear or two, the drop seemed too big and I
would be spinning like a git and getting nowhere slowly.

Are you just changing one gear on the rear cassette? There may be
intermediate ratios elsewhere. For example, on my bike the smallest
change down is usually got by shifting down on the front set and up on
the rear, or vice versa.

If you want to compare different sets of gears it helps if you can
work out all the ratios. An easy way of doing this is to count the
teeth on both sets of gears, set up a spreadsheet to calculate all
possible combinations, and then sort it by resulting ratio. Some
combinations are silly, e.g., if the step ratios between sets match or
are close to exact doubles, then you'll end up with lots of gear
combinations which come out to the same gear, rather than providing
you with useful intermediaries.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]