A major problem with usa racing.

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From: [email hidden] (RacerX)

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Lets just face it. We need a U23 racing series in the USA,We need "Best rider jerseys", and we need
more sponsors to fund these things. I really don't know what I am trying to get to other than
something is really wrong with USA Racing. Usacycling is not at fault, it is more of the promoters
who need to give special attention to these riders.

So what races/series are you going to promate and find financing for? Bill C

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Tritonrider
>From: [email hidden] (RacerX)

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Lets just face it. We need a U23 racing series in the USA,We need "Best rider jerseys", and we need
more sponsors to fund these things. I really don't know what I am trying to get to other than
something is really wrong with USA Racing. Usacycling is not at fault, it is more of the promoters
who need to give special attention to these riders.

So what races/series are you going to promate and find financing for? Bill C

I actually don;t think that you have much of a case. I mean yeah the development doesn;t make sense, but recently the US has been prodcuing good riders...(or at least riders who the average american might care about). If you can get sponsorship for cycling I would rather see it for top quality racing in the US rather than U23 races. I think that you need to suggest a better devlopment method that doesn;t involve much financial support. I mean how bad has the US really done in the last 20 years with Armstrong, Lemond, Hampstein, Hamilton, Jullich, Rodriguez, Hincape, Danielson ect. Hey we've done a lot better than the french. I don;t mean to say that this isn;t lucky or that we couldn;t have done better, but still.

"RacerX" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

<<lots o' stuff snipped>>

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Lets just face it. We need a U23 racing series in the USA,We need "Best rider jerseys", and we
need more sponsors to fund these things. I really don't know what I am trying to get to other than
something is really wrong with USA Racing. Usacycling is not at fault, it is more of the promoters
who need to give special attention to these riders.

Do we really need to break down races into yet _another_ age group category?

What % of U23s are competing frequently in NRC races?

How does the number of U23 licensees that go on to become cat 1 or pro compare to other countries
like France, Belgium, or Italy?

Physically speaking, are the U23's that much behind the older riders? I don't think so.

There are plenty of paths to cycling's elite levels. Everyone so far has managed to get there
despite U23 specific races. There are enough local and regional coaches and elite riders whose words
to team managers convey they should look into certain riders.

Ultimately, is there enough depth in the U23s to ensure quality racing? Hypothetically speaking, is
having a 40 man field with 8 top riders in a race a better race experience than having a 120 man
field with 25 or so top riders?

It is the depth of quality riders in European races that makes better riders and better racing, not
segmenting and isolating age groups.

Quoted message said:

From: "Carl Sundquist" [email hidden]

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It is the depth of quality riders in European races that makes better riders and better racing, not
segmenting and isolating age groups.

You aren't kidding. The U-13 races used to start 25-30 kids on a regular basis in Germany. I'd
guess that Italy and France do have even more kids starting. Bill C

[email hidden] (RacerX) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

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A major problem with USA racing is lack of attention to up coming young racers(the future of USA
cycling). The average age for a racers to turn pro is the age of 25. By Pro I mean on a gc1, or
"paying" gc2/3 team. To be on a small domestic gc3 team does not count. A good junior in the USA
can race in Pro,1, races and finish(maybe do ok). It is a waste of time for them to do junior
races because they are to easy. Now usacycling has the world qualification races for juniors
which is a good start in the right direction. After being a junior it is a straight jump into the
NRC races.

there are also local races.

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At all big NRC races not only do you have guys like Chris Horner, O'neal,Hank
Vogel,Vaughters,Pate,and etc... but you also have really crappy racers that are put in as fillers.

the rest aren't 'really crappy riders', they're the next tier down in ability. the one of the best
riders is almost always going to beat the 'best of the rest' riders.

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All the NRC races are dominated by the best racers and Teams and unless you are on one good luck
for a win.

which is the way it should be

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NRC races are impossible for any first year to win,and unless they are super talented it is hard
for any u23 to win.

which is the way it should be.

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When people say there are politics in USACycling they are so wrong. How are they going to get
noticed as a U23 is doing a race they can not win? The national team coaches don't looks at how
well you did at Tour of Ohio, or if you won your local stage race. They and big teams only look at
how well you did at Fitchburg,Solano,Redlands, or look big NRC races a U23 cant win(unless they
are super talented or on a big team).

if the top u-23s are getting results in the top races why should coaches look at how the second tier
of u-23s are doing in smaller races ?

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Actually they do look at races like Tour of Ohio, but there is no notification for a "Best Young
Rider" so how do they know who is who? But tour of Ohio is not a hard race, only has a bunch of
old heads. Also the U23 national championships were a joke. This year they were in Texas, flat,
hot and they only averaged like 25mph. A break lasted from the start to to the finish. If that
race was in holland it would have been
28.5mph and only 25guys would have finished. The only real hard US races are like
Lancaster,SanFran,Georgia, and USPRO.

but you were just complaining that NRC races were too hard for u-23s to show their stuff, your
point is ?

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You sure as hell are not going to get noticed by a Euro team placing top10 in a NRC.

and why should you get noticed ? only the top two or three espoirs can expect to be a euro-pro.

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So how is a U23 going to get on the USA Natioanl Team to get a chance? Maybe the cyclingcenter.com
or placing high in big NRC events. So unless they win the national championships, put in a good
perfomance in front of the right people, good luck.

that's right, if there are u-23 riders getting results in top races they are the ones who are going
to be noticed.

Quoted message said:

Lets just face it. We need a U23 racing series in the USA,We need "Best rider jerseys", and we
need more sponsors to fund these things.

you don't make a good case for it.

-Amit

you kind of rant a bit, but i understand your point... i first have to say that you are a bit wrong
by saying that any good european u23 can win an NRC... those UCI U23 races are good races, but they
dont have the level of a big NRC at the top end... they are more competitive, but they dont have
guys like horner in them or o'neal or vogels... i think that you should slow down a bit and have a
little more respect for the ability of a US based pro... the best guys are here by choice, not
because they couldn't cut it across the ocean... Horner, O'neal, Vogels, Sweet, Davedenko, Fraser,
Grishkine, et al. were not mere "mid pack" pros... they are and were VERY good pros, better than
most.. you should become more of a student of the sport and learn to understand the game...

back to the subject... you are right that there needs to be organization to the calendar, so that
the young riders can develop... you have a great point in that its tough to learn to race in races
that are way above your head... the tactic for a young guy in an NRC race is just to hang on...

there are a growng number of people that see that there is a problem and are begining to call for
some clarity to the calendar... i think that USA cyling should establish different levels of
competition, in the same way that the french do... there needs to be national races with pro teams
and the best amateur teams, regional events, and local events... currently, with every race trying
to be an NRC, a lot of races get lost in the shuffle and actually lose importance by becoming a
mediocre pro-am event, where they would be able to thrive and gain prestige if USA cycling gave the
option for events to be a part of a second tier regional series... there should also be rules to
govern who can do what races... the local cat 2 shouldnt be able to show up at every big race and
line up next to the best teams, while conversely saturn shouldnt be able to go to the local event
and kick the living [censored] out of all the 9 to 5ers and the college students...

organizing the racing into destinct levels of competion and restricting participation at those
different levels makes identifying up and coming talent much easier for the federation and for the
teams... a tier system also makes each event in that system more marketable to potential sponsors...
the riders and teams could be ranked within those tiers (earning the right to win their way into the
next tier), making themselves also more marketable... if, for example there were 3 divisions, A, B,
and C with div B being the regional level, those teams would have a predetermined schedule of races
catering to their division, ensuring a competitive event where racers could actually race amongst
those who are similar in ability... these events would constitute a regional series, and ranking...
races and teams would then have a package that they could sell to sponsors... teams could present
themselves to sponsors being able to promise participation in a certain number of events with a
regional exposure...

now, of course, all of this depends on motivated, and marketing savy race promoters, bike clubs, and
the help of USA cycling... but i think that the kernel of this idea is a good one and has proven
very successful in europe, not just in cycling, but in just about every other sport... it's a single
solution that has shown itself to be an effective way to bring in sponsorship dollars and to foster
development...