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A half day out (TR)

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
22 January 2005
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31 January 2005
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Roger
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  1. If I had known at the start what I know know I doubt if I would ever
    have set out to do Wainwrights Outlying Fells but having started I (like
    Magnus Magnusson) just had to finish so there I was on a cold frosty day
    in the Lake District mopping up the last few.

    First on the agenda was the School Knott group which AW would have us
    approach from Windermere Station via an extensive housing estate. Not
    being over fond of tarmac roads in general and housing estates in
    particular I opted for an approach from the other side with a circular
    route mostly on PROWS. Quite a pleasant stroll and not so suburban as
    might be supposed by the proximity of Bowness.

    Going was mostly reasonable underfoot although there was in places a
    breakable crust on the semi frozen mud. At one point early on I was a
    bit puzzled. There was no sign of the path on the ground and likewise no
    sign of the gate through the fence into the next field. It took a little
    time to realise that the gate in question was slap bang in the middle of
    an obstruction caused by a very large windfall. No way could I actually
    use the gate. :-)

    The Dales Way was joined at Hag End and left again as soon as the open
    fell was reached. Walking up hill on the right hand side of a
    substantial wall it seemed for a time that the highest point around was
    on the other side of the wall but eventually all was revealed and the
    true summit of the oddly named Grandsire (and the highest point of the
    day) was reached and the position of the next summit (Nameless 818'😉
    ascertained. Getting there was easy enough and surprisingly (once the
    discrete stile was located) so was crossing the wall that separated AWs
    target from highest point.

    School Knott was the final summit of the trio, again with some help from
    the Dales Way followed by an easy return to the car via School knott
    plantation and Whasdike. An easy 90 minute stroll carrying no excess
    baggage except my anorak.

    I could have done Brant Fell easily enough as part of the first walk but
    I wanted to check out a couple of minor high points so I drove into
    Bowness and luckily found a 1 hour free parking place right at the start
    of the walk. Thinking an hour might be tight I set off in a bit of a
    rush (sans anorak) forgetting to enable the track on the GPS or
    resetting the trip. Halfway up the tarmac I remembered the track but
    unaccountably not the trip. At the top of the rise there was a notice
    saying Ilkley 81 miles, I was back on the Dales Way again.

    At the point where the track for Post Knott turned sharp right there
    were NT notices saying closed due to windfalls. (The first of several
    both on this and the final walk). Not being one to be put off by trifles
    I ignored the notices as apparently had several other people out on the
    hill. Post knott is a noted viewpoint but the distant views were
    disappointing as it was quite dull with 100% cloud cover.

    Brant Fell was not much further and then it was off in search of AWs
    other minor viewpoint, Biskey Howe which is so insignificant it is
    difficult to determine where it is on the map. It was however quite
    prominent when I reached it and had the added advantage of providing an
    off-road way-off for much of the descent back to level ground. The walk
    only took 45 minutes so I needn't have hurried.

    By this time senility seemed to be setting in as I plumped for a pay and
    display car park in Windermere forgetting completely about the layby on
    the A591 opposite the station and conveniently situated for Orrest Head.

    Wainwright mentions the possibility of being found on Orrest Head in his
    introduction so it was perhaps fitting that Orrest Head was my last
    Outlying Fell even though I was a decade or 2 too late to meet him. In
    the appropriate chapter he laments on the impossibility of ancient bones
    keeping to the guidebook time of 20 minutes for the ascent. I'm sorry to
    say that I too found it impossible to keep to that schedule arriving at
    the summit a full 9 minutes before I should but then I found out fairly
    early on that I am far too young for the Outlying Fells. :-)

    There were 3 people on the summit when I arrived one of which I almost
    mistook for Judith. Luckily I realised my mistake in time. After a short
    while and a few dull photographs I made my way back via a (closed)
    permissive path through Common Wood to my car, lunch and the trip home.

    On one of the more winding bits of the A65 I was surprised, looking
    across a field, to see an upside down car leaning against the inside of
    the hedge. Close by it was hardly visible from the road and it was by no
    means clear how on earth it managed to get into that position.
    Thankfully my car remained on the road at all times.

    And so I am temporarily at a loose end again. The Outlying Fells are all
    done (but not necessarily by AWs routes). 114 must do summits, 21
    additional minor points along the line of his walks, 11 higher summits
    overshadowing his walks and 4 a bit further afield. 150 in total. A
    curious mixture, all nominally easy but the ground underfoot varying
    between tarmac through good grass to virgin bog and heather forest.

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year 10 summits
    New - 10 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Outlying Fells 10)
    Repeats - 0 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Wainwrights 0, Outlying Fells 0)

  2. Roger <[email hidden]> wrote in news:313030303131343441F26B1D25
    @nospam.zetnet.co.uk:

    Quoted message said:

    If I had known at the start what I know know I doubt if I would ever
    have set out to do Wainwrights Outlying Fells but having started I (like
    Magnus Magnusson) just had to finish so there I was on a cold frosty day
    in the Lake District mopping up the last few.


    Congratulations, Roger. What, in particular, would be the strongest reason
    for not starting?

    Stuart

  3. On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:02:53 GMT, Roger <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    There were 3 people on the summit when I arrived one of which I almost
    mistook for Judith.

    On a summit? Me? I'm the one who walks /round/ the hills, remember!

    Judith

  4. The message <[email hidden]>
    from Stuart Mann <[email hidden]> contains these words:

    Quoted message said:

    Roger <[email hidden]> wrote in news:313030303131343441F26B1D25
    @nospam.zetnet.co.uk:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If I had known at the start what I know know I doubt if I would ever
    have set out to do Wainwrights Outlying Fells but having started I (like
    Magnus Magnusson) just had to finish so there I was on a cold frosty day
    in the Lake District mopping up the last few.


    Congratulations, Roger. What, in particular, would be the strongest reason
    for not starting?

    The strongest perhaps is that most of the walks are really short
    excursions but not far behind is the realisation that some of the actual
    routes are hard going for what they are and not the best route to be had
    on the ground.

    I think the Bannisdale Horseshoe (the hardest walk in the book) is the
    only one that occupied anything like a whole day out (and my whole days
    out necessarily included a minimum of 3 hours and a maximum of 5 hours
    driving).

    I wouldn't say I didn't get some enjoyment out of all of them but in all
    too many cases I could have got a good deal more enjoyment by repeating
    some of the bigger hills in the Lake District that would have involved
    no extra driving.

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year 10 summits
    New - 10 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Outlying Fells 10)
    Repeats - 0 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Wainwrights 0, Outlying Fells 0)

  5. The message <[email hidden]>
    from Judith <[email hidden]> contains these words:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    There were 3 people on the summit when I arrived one of which I almost
    mistook for Judith.

    Quoted message said:

    On a summit? Me? I'm the one who walks /round/ the hills, remember!

    It's only a dinky little hill. I am sure you could have managed it in 11
    minutes as well and there are plenty of seats on the summit for a good
    rest.

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year 10 summits
    New - 10 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Outlying Fells 10)
    Repeats - 0 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Wainwrights 0, Outlying Fells 0)

  6. Roger <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Congratulations, Roger. What, in particular, would be the strongest
    reason for not starting?

    The strongest perhaps is that most of the walks are really short
    excursions but not far behind is the realisation that some of the
    actual routes are hard going for what they are and not the best route
    to be had on the ground.


    I can imagine that from my experience "nipping" up Great Mell Fell from the
    SE. A horrible slog on tussock grass that seemed to go on forever because I
    started with the wrong expectations :-( Nice view, though!

    Quoted message said:


    I think the Bannisdale Horseshoe (the hardest walk in the book) is the
    only one that occupied anything like a whole day out (and my whole days
    out necessarily included a minimum of 3 hours and a maximum of 5 hours
    driving).


    On two occasions I've plugged holes in my Wainwright coverage by driving
    between isolated hills. I wish I hadn't, and I can understand that it
    reduced the satisfaction of many of your days on the outliers.

    One of the best weeks we've had in the Lakes was when the car just about got
    us to Langdale on a blown piston. Rather than worry about it, we abandoned
    the car for a week and had a marvellous time walking from the tent every day
    without even the temptation to drive anywhere.

    Quoted message said:


    I wouldn't say I didn't get some enjoyment out of all of them but in
    all too many cases I could have got a good deal more enjoyment by
    repeating some of the bigger hills in the Lake District that would have
    involved no extra driving.


    Yes - that confirms my thinking that, for me, hill days are too rare and
    precious to spend on the outlying hills of the Lakes. When my Wainwright
    round is complete (10 more hill days) my over-riding urge will be to revisit
    some old "friends" that I haven't seen up close for quite a while.

    I had thought that I might start to casually visit the tarns (as per the
    Nuttalls list) on the basis that to do so will involve planning some
    interesting routes whilst remaining generally in the heart of the district.
    The trouble is that one might start "casually", but as it goes on........

    Anyway - well done again, Roger.

    (What's a "Sweat" by the way. "Short walks ending at t'pub? )

    Stuart

  7. The message <[email hidden]>
    from Stuart Mann <[email hidden]> contains these words:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The strongest perhaps is that most of the walks are really short
    excursions but not far behind is the realisation that some of the
    actual routes are hard going for what they are and not the best route
    to be had on the ground.

    Quoted message said:

    I can imagine that from my experience "nipping" up Great Mell Fell from the
    SE. A horrible slog on tussock grass that seemed to go on forever because I
    started with the wrong expectations :-( Nice view, though!

    And a very short walk if you start from the high point on the road. The
    Mell Fells would have been more at home in the Outlying Fells and if
    Wainwright had positioned Book One in any other area of the LD they
    probably would have been relegated there.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I think the Bannisdale Horseshoe (the hardest walk in the book) is the
    only one that occupied anything like a whole day out (and my whole days
    out necessarily included a minimum of 3 hours and a maximum of 5 hours
    driving).

    Quoted message said:

    On two occasions I've plugged holes in my Wainwright coverage by driving
    between isolated hills. I wish I hadn't, and I can understand that it
    reduced the satisfaction of many of your days on the outliers.

    After I posted the above I realised that the 3 to 5 hours driving was an
    understatement as it didn't always include the sometimes quite time
    consuming drives between walks.

    Quoted message said:

    One of the best weeks we've had in the Lakes was when the car just
    about got
    us to Langdale on a blown piston. Rather than worry about it, we abandoned
    the car for a week and had a marvellous time walking from the tent
    every day
    without even the temptation to drive anywhere.

    I have a soft spot for the Lakes in general and Langdale in particular
    as it was family holiday there in the 50s that got this refugee from the
    flatlands of Essex interested in hill walking in the first place.

    However we used to get there by train (an epic in itself) and getting
    about the LD by bus when we wanted to go further afield was not
    particularly easy even then when bus travel was the rule rather than the
    exception.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I wouldn't say I didn't get some enjoyment out of all of them but in
    all too many cases I could have got a good deal more enjoyment by
    repeating some of the bigger hills in the Lake District that would have
    involved no extra driving.


    Yes - that confirms my thinking that, for me, hill days are too rare and
    precious to spend on the outlying hills of the Lakes. When my Wainwright
    round is complete (10 more hill days) my over-riding urge will be to
    revisit
    some old "friends" that I haven't seen up close for quite a while.

    I expect I will be back in the LD shortly on some of the bigger hills
    although I have reached the age where some caution might be called for
    when solo walking in Winter.

    Quoted message said:

    (What's a "Sweat" by the way. "Short walks ending at t'pub? )

    If Paul Saunders hadn't gone walkabout again he would have been on to me
    for even using the term. It stands for Summits-Wales-England-above-Two
    thousand feet and has been superceded by Hewitt
    Hills-England-Wales-Ireland-Two-Thousand feet but as I have as yet done
    nothing in Ireland and have very little prospect of even doing the 3000s
    there I stick with the Sweats. Indeed my next hill might be the one
    remaining Sweat in the LD that I haven't done - Ladyside Pike. One of
    AWs stranger omissions as a peak in its own right (likewise Iron Crag)
    as it has a distinct summit unlike several he devotes whole chapters to.

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year 10 summits
    New - 10 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Outlying Fells 10)
    Repeats - 0 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Wainwrights 0, Outlying Fells 0)

  8. The message <[email hidden]>
    from Stuart Mann <[email hidden]> contains these words:

    Quoted message said:

    I can imagine that from my experience "nipping" up Great Mell Fell from the
    SE. A horrible slog on tussock grass that seemed to go on forever because I
    started with the wrong expectations :-( Nice view, though!

    Ignore my comments about Great Mell Fell in my previous response. I got
    my Mells mixed up.

    Quoted message said:

    I had thought that I might start to casually visit the tarns (as per the
    Nuttalls list) on the basis that to do so will involve planning some
    interesting routes whilst remaining generally in the heart of the district.
    The trouble is that one might start "casually", but as it goes on.....

    I have always been happier on the ridges rather than down in the valleys
    but I might start taking more notice of the Nuttall summits now as an
    alternative route on the way to some more prominent summit.

    The problem of too many lists is keeping track of what is where which is
    why I still have Ladyside Pike to do. It would have been an easy
    diversion from my route over Whiteside and Hopegill Head or even an
    alternative descent route had I been keeping a close enough eye on the
    Marilyn and Sweat lists as I mopped up the last few Wainwrights that I
    either hadn't done or couldn't remember doing during the previous 50 odd
    years.

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year 10 summits
    New - 10 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Outlying Fells 10)
    Repeats - 0 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Wainwrights 0, Outlying Fells 0)

  9. h!

    Quoted message said:


    And a very short walk if you start from the high point on the road. The
    Mell Fells would have been more at home in the Outlying Fells and if
    Wainwright had positioned Book One in any other area of the LD they
    probably would have been relegated there.

    The Mell Fells are both biggish hills that stick out more than most
    chapters in the books.

    Mind these are Wainwrights lovely guides here not a ticklist... Mell
    Fells make ticklists no bother... (Big drops) but with Wainwright
    anything could happen.... A joy.

    Richard Webb

  10. On 23 Jan 2005 08:41:14 GMT, Stuart Mann <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Yes - that confirms my thinking that, for me, hill days are too rare and
    precious to spend on the outlying hills of the Lakes. When my Wainwright
    round is complete (10 more hill days) my over-riding urge will be to revisit
    some old "friends" that I haven't seen up close for quite a while.

    Same here - when I get motivated to finish, I intend to return to some
    of the best, and to find more interesting routes up.

    --

    R
    o
    o
    n
    e
    y

  11. On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:02:53 GMT, Roger <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    And so I am temporarily at a loose end again. The Outlying Fells are all
    done (but not necessarily by AWs routes).

    Nice work, Roger.
    You're going to have to invent yourelf some new challenges. Following
    the main rivers up to their source might be interesting, though as you
    prefer ridges, maybe not to your liking. There are a couple of books -
    Lakeland Ridges and More Lakeland Ridges, or something similar, full
    of good routes, some of which may never have occurred to you.
    I'll be looking for new (to me) routes that require a bit of
    scrambling or climbing, such as Scafell via Broad Stand. Nothing too
    technical - just enough to add interest once I've invested in some
    gear and a bit more tuition. Again, there are a couple of books of
    Lakeland Scrambles and More of Same, whose exact titles escape me.
    But as I keep returning to previously covered ground, it's going to
    take me ages to complete the 214!

    --

    R
    o
    o
    n
    e
    y

  12. The message <[email hidden]>
    from Rooney <[email hidden]> contains these words:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    And so I am temporarily at a loose end again. The Outlying Fells are all
    done (but not necessarily by AWs routes).

    Quoted message said:

    Nice work, Roger.
    You're going to have to invent yourelf some new challenges. Following
    the main rivers up to their source might be interesting, though as you
    prefer ridges, maybe not to your liking. There are a couple of books -
    Lakeland Ridges and More Lakeland Ridges, or something similar, full
    of good routes, some of which may never have occurred to you.
    I'll be looking for new (to me) routes that require a bit of
    scrambling or climbing, such as Scafell via Broad Stand. Nothing too
    technical - just enough to add interest once I've invested in some
    gear and a bit more tuition. Again, there are a couple of books of
    Lakeland Scrambles and More of Same, whose exact titles escape me.
    But as I keep returning to previously covered ground, it's going to
    take me ages to complete the 214!

    One of the reasons that I took 23 years over my Munro round and over
    twice that for my Wainwright round was a frequent return to the more
    popular hills.

    Club meets were part of the problem but I must take my share of the
    blame because in the early 70s there was no one more insistent than me
    that the Whit meet just had to be to Skye. Only when I could afford to
    travel to Scotland on my own did a Munro round become a realistic
    prospect.

    As to scrambling I am too poor a climber to risk it on my own and even
    in my prime have deemed it prudent to retreat when faced with the hard
    corner on Broad Stand.

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year 10 summits
    New - 10 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Outlying Fells 10)
    Repeats - 0 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Wainwrights 0, Outlying Fells 0)

  13. On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:30:30 GMT, Roger <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    One of the reasons that I took 23 years over my Munro round and over
    twice that for my Wainwright round was a frequent return to the more
    popular hills.

    My Wainwright round is currently over 41 years. I started when I was
    7. For a couple of decades all the repeats where around Wasdale.
    Recently they've been Eastern and Far Eastern, which I've taken a
    liking to. What happens is that I mention a walk I've done and someone
    says they would like to do that one, so off I go again, then with
    another person..... (plus a few solo repeats).

    Quoted message said:


    Club meets were part of the problem but I must take my share of the
    blame because in the early 70s there was no one more insistent than me
    that the Whit meet just had to be to Skye. Only when I could afford to
    travel to Scotland on my own did a Munro round become a realistic
    prospect.

    As to scrambling I am too poor a climber to risk it on my own and even
    in my prime have deemed it prudent to retreat when faced with the hard
    corner on Broad Stand.

    Not something I intend to do alone - only with someone experienced
    and only with the correct equipment.

    --

    R
    o
    o
    n
    e
    y

  14. Roger <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Ignore my comments about Great Mell Fell in my previous response. I got
    my Mells mixed up.


    I thought so. There is a "quick" way up the steep side of Great Mell Fell
    but when I was thinking of doing it there was a dirty great tank blocking
    the way - which plants the suspicion (possibly deliberately) that one might
    encounter things that go bang.

    Quoted message said:


    I have always been happier on the ridges rather than down in the
    valleys


    Me too - once I'm up there - but I really like approaches that get right
    into the mountains at a lower level before going high. Trouble is that often
    involves pain - as happens when moving from the grandeur of Mickleden to the
    delights (?) of Rossett Ghyll!

    Quoted message said:


    The problem of too many lists is keeping track of what is where which
    is why I still have Ladyside Pike to do.


    You're right - it's a much more worthy peak than others that made the 214 -
    but I didn't detour from the main ridge either!

    Stuart

  15. [email hidden] (RJ Webb) wrote in news:41f380fb.2171812
    @news.blueyonder.co.uk:

    Quoted message said:

    ......but with Wainwright
    anything could happen.... A joy.


    Well said!

  16. "Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    As to scrambling I am too poor a climber to risk it on my own and even
    in my prime have deemed it prudent to retreat when faced with the hard
    corner on Broad Stand.

    Quoted message said:

    Not something I intend to do alone - only with someone experienced
    and only with the correct equipment.

    If you wanted to it should be perfectly possible to climb easily down to the
    one tricky bit from above tie a short rope to it, climb down to the bottom
    and then back up using the rope if needed. I don't think the very bottom
    bit was too bad, I wouldn't have gone up it if I didn't think I could have
    gone back down and everything further up was easy after the bad corner.
    When I went to have a look at it someone had conveniently lashed a short
    aluminium ladder in place so what started out as an inquisitive look turned
    into a proper ascent (albeit cheating a bit) to the slight annoyance of the
    person I left sitting by the stretcher box.

  17. The message <[email hidden]>
    from "AndyP" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

    Quoted message said:

    "Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    As to scrambling I am too poor a climber to risk it on my own and even
    in my prime have deemed it prudent to retreat when faced with the hard
    corner on Broad Stand.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Not something I intend to do alone - only with someone experienced
    and only with the correct equipment.

    Quoted message said:

    If you wanted to it should be perfectly possible to climb easily down to the
    one tricky bit from above tie a short rope to it, climb down to the bottom
    and then back up using the rope if needed. I don't think the very bottom
    bit was too bad, I wouldn't have gone up it if I didn't think I could have
    gone back down and everything further up was easy after the bad corner.
    When I went to have a look at it someone had conveniently lashed a short
    aluminium ladder in place so what started out as an inquisitive look turned
    into a proper ascent (albeit cheating a bit) to the slight annoyance of the
    person I left sitting by the stretcher box.

    Actually I have done Broad Stand but only in a downwards direction in
    the company of real climbers who rigged a sling for aid on the vertical
    bit that is the only real difficulty if you can stand the exposure.

    IIRC (and it is a long time since I was last there) the bottom part
    consists of a squeeze followed by a step round a corner onto an exposed
    sloping shelf leading up to a corner which is the difficult bit. Even in
    1960 the holds were thin and polished and not typical of a Diff in my
    opinion. Above the corner there is nothing to worry about as I found out
    when we descended.

    My father and I had a look in about 1960 (when he was some 6 years
    younger than I am now) and I had at least one later look at it. One of
    the problems (for me at least) is that the sloping shelf is very exposed
    and coming off the hard move with no safeguards would result in a very
    long fall. I was actually under the crag (heading back from the Foxes
    Tarn path) one year when someone had an unfortunate occurrence on Broad
    Stand. Luckily for them it was only a dropped rucksack but it went a
    long way very very quickly.

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year 10 summits
    New - 10 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Outlying Fells 10)
    Repeats - 0 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 0, Wainwrights 0, Outlying Fells 0)

  18. In article <[email hidden]>, Judith
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:02:53 GMT, Roger <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    There were 3 people on the summit when I arrived one of which I almost
    mistook for Judith.

    On a summit? Me? I'm the one who walks /round/ the hills, remember!

    Judith

    yeah :-)
    --
    Bill Grey
    http://www.billboy.co.uk

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