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A Doctors Understanding...

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
15 May 2004
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16 May 2004
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Dave Wickware
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  1. If you read this article carefully it seems that he says that we must never
    let common sense or thousands of years of history and tradition influence
    our thinking. This presents the very reason that
    more and more people regard the medical establishment as narrow minded and
    not trustworthy.

    by Steven Novella, MD

    The Connecticut Skeptic Vol.1 Issue 1 (Winter '96)

    There is a growing phenomenon in this country which is very diverse and
    yet can be grouped collectively under a single name: alternative medicine.
    What this term basically represents is any health care which is not part of
    the mainstream medical establishment, and it includes all such therapies
    from chiropractic to crystal healing. Despite the tremendous disparity in
    philosophy, organization, practice, and origins of the myriad types of
    alternative medicine , the growing acceptance and use of these therapies is
    part of a single cultural phenomenon. It is also an extremely dangerous and
    costly one.

    First let me address what the critical difference between mainstream
    medicine and alternative medicine truely is, and why the latter is cause for
    concern. In short, mainstream medicine is a scientific endeavor, and
    alternative medicine is not.

    Medical practice was not always steeped in the traditions of science.
    Two centuries ago the discipline of medicine was based on dogma and
    authority, research was sporadic and uncoordinated and was not generally
    accepted as the way to improve the practice of medicine. Slowly, however, a
    few gifted scientists began to show how research and experimentation, in the
    modern sense of the terms, can yield real knowledge which can be used to
    treat and cure patients. One by one, diseases began to fall under the
    understanding and control of physicians, and the results were undeniable.

    Today, medical research is a multi-billion dollar industry. Every
    physician is exposed to basic science and clinical research to some degree
    during their training and the links between the science of medicine and the
    practice of medicine are strong. Physicians in training learn early on that
    authority means little, if one does not have the facts to back up what one
    is saying. It is common for medical students, the lowest members of the
    academic medicine hierarchy, to politely ask their attendings for the
    article which demonstrates their assertion. I have never met an attending
    to be offended by or to refuse such a request, because such behavior would
    expose them as dogmatic and not scientific, destroying their reputation in
    academic circles.

    Physicians also learn through clinical experience to be highly skeptical
    of just such experience. That is, simply because a treatment seems to be
    effective by casual observation is not enough to conclude that it is. Time
    and time again, with stunning regularity, our own naive assumptions and
    observations are invalidated by careful scientific research. We learn to
    question everything we think we know, to base our clinical practice on solid
    research, and not to be swayed by so-called anecdotal experience. One
    cannot be a competent physician today without subscribing to an array of
    medical journals in order to keep up with the latest research.

    Why is anecdotal experience so fallible? In part it is because human
    biology is extremely complex and variable. Physicians are fond of saying
    that no two patients are exactly alike, and therefore the results of our
    interventions are never completely predictable. Also, we rely heavily on
    the patient's subjective experience of their own disease and symptoms. I
    can only know how much pain a patient is experiencing by what they tell me;
    there is no objective measure. Patient's expectations, the so-called
    placebo effect, are very powerful and greatly affects their beliefs about
    whether or not they are getting better or worse. Physician expectation is
    also a factor, for if we believe a patient should be getting better, our
    assessment of them may be biased in that direction.

    Another feature of modern medicine that is important to understanding
    the alternative medicine phenomenon is that it is greatly imperfect.
    Medical knowledge is vast, but medical ignorance is even more vast. Many
    illnesses still have no cure or only imperfect cures. Physicians are often
    reduced to managing symptoms, which is important and improves a patient's
    quality of life, but does not offer hope of altering the disease course
    itself. Many diseases are not understood or only poorly understood, and
    even proper diagnosis is often a challenge. Another reality medical
    students learn early in their training is the limitations of their own
    knowledge and power.

    Medical practice today is also highly technological. This is one of its
    strengths, but it is also a potential weakness. Patients often perceive
    their experience with mainstream medicine as being impersonal and uncaring.
    They are often put through a scary battery of tests and examinations which
    they have little chance of understanding. It is easy for patients to become
    overwhelmed by the complexity of the delivery of modern medicine and the
    technology of its practice, all at a time when they are especially
    vulnerable because they are sick.

    Enter alternative medicine.
    It is easy to understand why people would be drawn to the allure of
    alternative medicine. Those therapies that are most successful are often
    very good at the personal "warm and fuzzy" aspect of heath care. They also
    make very straightforward claims with regard to diagnosis and treatment.
    What patient does not want to hear "this is what your problem is, and here
    is the cure?" There is rarely any gray zone or uncertainty. Also, the
    interventions tend to be very hands-on and often even pleasurable, such as
    massage therapy or therapeutic touch, very different from the needles,
    probes, and x-rays of mainstream medicine.

    What is the problem, then? It sounds like mainstream medicine can learn
    a great deal from alternative medicine, rather than the other way around.
    The problem is that many, if not all, forms of alternative medicine make
    claims which are not based on firm scientific research. Some, such as
    crystal healing, healing touch, and Rei-so (spiritual diagnosis), are based
    on the concept that physical health depends upon spiritual health or having
    the proper balance and flow of life energies.

    Others, such as aromatherapy, homeopathy, and herbalism, cite
    physiologic mechanisms for their actions. Still others, such as the
    Laetrile society, claim that the treatment they have to offer is the product
    of scientific research but that a corrupt medical organization is conspiring
    to keep this genuine therapy from patients.

    Often, proponents of any particular form of alternative medicine can
    recite long and complex explanations for the basis of their therapy. They
    can often claim that the knowledge they use is thousands of years old, or is
    widely used in other cultures but neglected in western European culture.
    They all will make bold statements about the power of their therapy and even
    be able to provide stunning testimonials to support their claims. What none
    of them can produce, however, is solid, reproducible scientific research to
    back up their claims.

    It is this fact alone which distinguishes alternative from mainstream
    medicine. If any therapy, no matter how unorthodox, were grounded in
    research, and could be repeatedly shown to be safe and effective, then it
    eventually would be incorporated into mainstream medicine. Novelty will
    always meet with initial resistance, but the history of medicine, and indeed
    science in general, has repeatedly shown that the facts in the end reign
    supreme.

    Defenders and practitioners of alternative medicine claim that their
    therapies are natural and holistic, whereas mainstream medicine is
    artificial, invasive, and treats patients as diseases. They will often say
    that physicians are as dogmatic as their predecessors of previous centuries
    and that their attacks against alternative medicine are based solely on
    their desire to protect their own monopoly on health care. These verbal
    attacks by adherents of alternative medicine against their perceived enemies
    are a simple distraction from the real question - why should a skeptical
    individual believe that there is any credibility to the diagnostic and
    therapeutic claims of a particular form of alternative medicine? In short,
    medical scientists state that a particular therapy has no scientific basis,
    and the practitioners of that therapy reply, not with evidence or research,
    but with cries of dogma and protectionism.

    On closer examination, the criticisms of mainstream medicine listed
    above are largely empty. The terms "natural" and "holistic" have been so
    broadly applied as to become virtually meaningless. The trend in medical
    education towards a more complete view of the patient (the so-called
    biopsychosocial model) is largely ignored. Making comparisons between
    modern medicine and the beliefs of previous centuries serves only to reveal
    extreme ignorance about the fundamental revolution in science and medicine
    that has occurred in our society. And claiming that physicians speak out
    against alternative medicine only to protect their monopoly belies a
    complete misunderstanding of the organization of academic medicine as
    distinct from private practice. In the end the attacks of alternative
    medicine practitioners are revealed for what they truly are, preemptive
    strikes against the one segment of society that can reveal the emptiness of
    their claims - the medical community.

    This, of course, is not to suggest that mainstream medicine is beyond
    criticism; it is not. Nor am I implying that all forms of alternative
    medicine are without value, but they lack a mechanism of systematically
    testing their value.

    The FDA was established to protect the public from so-called snake oil
    salesman, slick con-artists who sold useless or even harmful concoctions
    with a long list of unsubstantiated health claims. Before a physician can
    prescribe a drug to a patient, that drug must be proven, through many years
    of stringent research, to be safe and effective for specific indications.
    The medical community, through licensure, hospital privileges, referrals,
    and peer review regulates the activities of all physicians so that a certain
    standard of care is maintained. Alternative medicine operates completely
    outside of this system. They can make claims without the burden of
    scientific proof and prescribe therapies without any precautions for their
    safety.

  2. "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If you read this article carefully it seems that he says that we must


    never

    Quoted message said:

    let common sense or thousands of years of history and tradition influence
    our thinking.

    No, it is saying that we should never base critical medical treatments on
    that alone. It is saying that the advancement of medical science demands
    more.

    Peter Moran

  3. In article
    <[email hidden]
    om.au>,

    Peter Moran said:

    "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If you read this article carefully it seems that he says that we must


    never

    Quoted message said:

    let common sense or thousands of years of history and tradition influence
    our thinking.

    No, it is saying that we should never base critical medical treatments on
    that alone. It is saying that the advancement of medical science demands
    more.

    BINGO!

    Anecdotal evidence is considered the weakest form of evidence in
    science, but it is not ignored. When enough of it exists, it is used as
    a basis for more rigorous studies.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  4. Advancement in medical science demands anti-trust/monopoly organisations in
    place.
    Any pharma company can do a trial, sodomise the statistics, stick some
    candles on it and pronounce "Happy Birthday" make a few billion off it. Then
    when people find out that they have been hoodwinked, open up a lawsuit
    resulting in pharma losing some pocket change. Pharma still wins - they make
    a profit.
    It's a great business model, it's win win win!
    Anth

    "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If you read this article carefully it seems that he says that we must


    never

    Quoted message said:

    let common sense or thousands of years of history and tradition


    influence

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    our thinking.

    No, it is saying that we should never base critical medical treatments on
    that alone. It is saying that the advancement of medical science demands
    more.

    Peter Moran

  5. Quoted message said:

    "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If you read this article carefully it seems that he says that we must


    never

    Quoted message said:

    let common sense or thousands of years of history and tradition influence
    our thinking. This presents the very reason that
    more and more people regard the medical establishment as narrow minded and
    not trustworthy.

    by Steven Novella, MD

    The Connecticut Skeptic Vol.1 Issue 1 (Winter '96)

    There is a growing phenomenon in this country which is very diverse and
    yet can be grouped collectively under a single name: alternative medicine.
    What this term basically represents is any health care which is not part


    of

    Quoted message said:

    the mainstream medical establishment, and it includes all such therapies
    from chiropractic to crystal healing. Despite the tremendous disparity in
    philosophy, organization, practice, and origins of the myriad types of
    alternative medicine , the growing acceptance and use of these therapies


    is

    Quoted message said:

    part of a single cultural phenomenon.
    It is also an extremely dangerous and costly one.
    First let me address what the critical difference between mainstream
    medicine and alternative medicine truely is, and why the latter is cause


    for

    Quoted message said:

    concern. In short, mainstream medicine is a scientific endeavor, and
    alternative medicine is not.

    Mainstream medicine is relatively new, kooks have been using anecdotes for
    hundreds of years to effect. (Chinese medicine is an example of that)

    Quoted message said:

    In short, mainstream medicine is a scientific endeavor, and alternative


    medicine is not.

    Who cares, if they work they work?
    People knew how to 'cure' scurvy hundreds of years before science jumped in
    a said "We have the cure for scurvy"
    Indians had the solution to the white man disease long before white man
    turned his microscope on it.
    It took hundreds of years and cost many thousands of lives before science
    woke up and finally gave in. Has science learned nothing from this lesson?

    Quoted message said:

    Medical practice was not always steeped in the traditions of science.
    Two centuries ago the discipline of medicine was based on dogma and
    authority, research was sporadic and uncoordinated and was not generally
    accepted as the way to improve the practice of medicine.

    Isn't this the way it is today - cholesterol lowering drugs spring to mind ?

    You need funding to do research and if no one will fund you that makes it
    harder to do research, or you take what research is offered in the direction
    they want to go.

    Quoted message said:

    The FDA was established to protect the public from so-called snake oil
    salesman, slick con-artists who sold useless or even harmful concoctions
    with a long list of unsubstantiated health claims.

    ...and today the very FDA is a tool of abuse to stifle competition.

    Quoted message said:

    Before a physician can prescribe a drug to a patient, that drug must be


    proven, through many years

    Quoted message said:

    of stringent research, to be safe and effective for specific indications.

    Rubbish!

    Quoted message said:

    The medical community, through licensure, hospital privileges, referrals,
    and peer review regulates the activities of all physicians so that a


    certain

    Quoted message said:

    standard of care is maintained. Alternative medicine operates completely
    outside of this system. They can make claims without the burden of
    scientific proof and prescribe therapies without any precautions for their
    safety.

    People as a whole don't understand science, they don't have the skills or
    the time and incentive to understand, so they 'buy' what these scientists
    and doctors are feeding them - they rely on trust.
    In essence this is just the same as what they do with alternative health
    treatments, but a more potential for unknowns with alternatives.
    The scientists also rely on trust from their peers and their studies, and
    the cycle goes on. (One scientist posts a reference to another paper and
    that paper is referenced by another paper and so on, and the [censored]
    floats) What you have is a system in science that is potentially more
    'accurate' but you certainly don't have the 'truth' which is the goal of
    science. .

    The sun shins out of this guys [censored], unfortunately the real world has little
    sunshine, I have a square spanner for a round peg if he wants it.
    Anth

  6. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: A Doctors Understanding...
    From: "Anth" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/15/04 6:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Any pharma company can do a trial, sodomise the statistics, stick some
    candles on it and pronounce "Happy Birthday" make a few billion off it. Then
    when people find out that they have been hoodwinked, open up a lawsuit
    resulting in pharma losing some pocket change. Pharma still wins - they make
    a profit.
    It's a great business model, it's win win win!
    Anth

    "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]


    s.com.au...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If you read this article carefully it seems that he says that we must


    never

    Quoted message said:

    let common sense or thousands of years of history and tradition


    influence

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    our thinking.

    No, it is saying that we should never base critical medical treatments on
    that alone. It is saying that the advancement of medical science demands
    more.

    Peter Moran

    Sad but true.

    But then who pays the shills in this group who continue to bow and pray to the
    pharma group while using every dispicable trick in the propaganda book to
    destroy any constructive discussion of alternative medicine?

    DrC PhD

  7. I don't think anyone pays them, they are just on the 'other side of the
    fence.'
    Anth

    "DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: A Doctors Understanding...
    From: "Anth" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/15/04 6:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Any pharma company can do a trial, sodomise the statistics, stick some
    candles on it and pronounce "Happy Birthday" make a few billion off it.


    Then

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    when people find out that they have been hoodwinked, open up a lawsuit
    resulting in pharma losing some pocket change. Pharma still wins - they


    make

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a profit.
    It's a great business model, it's win win win!
    Anth

    "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]


    s.com.au...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > If you read this article carefully it seems that he says that we must
    never
    > let common sense or thousands of years of history and tradition


    influence

    Quoted message said:

    > our thinking.

    No, it is saying that we should never base critical medical treatments


    on

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that alone. It is saying that the advancement of medical science


    demands

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    more.

    Peter Moran

    Sad but true.

    But then who pays the shills in this group who continue to bow and pray to


    the

    Quoted message said:

    pharma group while using every dispicable trick in the propaganda book to
    destroy any constructive discussion of alternative medicine?

    DrC PhD

  8. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: A Doctors Understanding...
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/15/2004 1:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If you read this article carefully it seems that he says that we must


    never

    Quoted message said:

    let common sense or thousands of years of history and tradition influence
    our thinking.

    No, it is saying that we should never base critical medical treatments on
    that alone. It is saying that the advancement of medical science demands
    more.

    Peter Moran

    No, it is saying doctors like you, lie.

    Jan

  9. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: A Doctors Understanding...
    From: [email hidden] (DRCEEPHD)
    Date: 5/15/2004 4:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    But then who pays the shills in this group who continue to bow and pray to
    the
    pharma group while using every dispicable trick in the propaganda book to
    destroy any constructive discussion of alternative medicine?

    gosh darn...wish I knew...as my check never comes!!!
    hawki.....

  10. Jan the Accuser said:

    No, it is saying doctors like you, lie.

    Jan

    Prove it. You accuse people all the time of lying
    just because they disagree with you, but you NEVER
    back up your accusations with proof.

    Do you need help seeing what PROOF looks like, Jan?

    Here is an example:

    To see Jan's ORIGINAL POSTING, go here:
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20040310000815.25804.00001173%40mb-m01.aol.com

    Jan said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: Mark Thorson [email hidden]

    Instead of responding to what you say, Jan is trying to discredit
    you by making insinuations about who you are or what your
    motives may be.

    Soon, she may accuse you of being on the payroll of the
    pharmaceutical companies, etc. That's the way Jan works.

    That would be ANOTHER LIE from Mark Thorson. I have NEVER accused


    anyone of

    Quoted message said:

    any such thing.

    So do prove your claim Mark!!!!!

    You can't YOU JUST LIED AGAIN!!!!!!!

    ----- example quotes of Jan accusing people of being paid shills -----

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030415173745.18794.00000646%40mb-fn.aol.com

    Any time alt. health is mentioned the personal trashing starts. Mostly
    comes from paid shill Mark Probert.

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030412210802.08778.00000680%40mb-fw.aol.com

    Internet bully Mark Probert who is a paid shill and lives off his wife.

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030410170838.14245.00000347%40mb-ct.aol.com

    As for Mark, he is a paid shill and lives off his wife.

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:
    http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030325123827.25124.00000246%40mb-mn.aol.com

    As long as Mark is here, the paid shill will call names when in fact
    he is the one who is a bigot. Speaking of his own people.

  11. "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: A Doctors Understanding...
    From: [email hidden] (DRCEEPHD)
    Date: 5/15/2004 4:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    But then who pays the shills in this group who continue to bow and pray


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the
    pharma group while using every dispicable trick in the propaganda book to
    destroy any constructive discussion of alternative medicine?

    gosh darn...wish I knew...as my check never comes!!!
    hawki.....

    I haven't been getting my checks, either. Maybe we should switch to MLM and
    get rich!

    ;o) Rich

  12. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: A Doctors Understanding...
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/15/2004 1:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:
    <[email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If you read this article carefully it seems that he says that we must


    never

    Quoted message said:

    let common sense or thousands of years of history and tradition influence
    our thinking.

    No, it is saying that we should never base critical medical treatments on
    that alone. It is saying that the advancement of medical science demands
    more.

    Peter Moran

    No, it is saying doctors like you, lie.

    Really? Please tell us exactly which lies Peter or I have told and prove
    they were lies.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

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