9spd trigger shifters with 8 speed cassette

toros said:

Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
shift the 8spd cassette? Or do I have to get a new 9spd cassette? Also
I know that my rear derailer is compatible with both 8 and 9 gears.

Thanks,

Toros

You'll need a new cassette and a new chain, or an 8-speed shifter.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

toros said:

Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
shift the 8spd cassette? Or do I have to get a new 9spd cassette? Also
I know that my rear derailer is compatible with both 8 and 9 gears.

Thanks,

Toros

Whoops. You'll need an 9-speed cassette and 9-speed chain, or an 8-speed
shifter.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Are you ever going to become "Phil, Squid" or are you always going to be
"Phil, Squid in Training?"

JF

Jim Flom said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>
wrote ...

Quoted message said:

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Are you ever going to become "Phil, Squid" or are you always going to
be "Phil, Squid in Training?"

JF

Depends on whether or not I get a motorcycle. Look it up on wikipedia.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:SJY1f.8195$sE3.6341@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

toros said:

Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
shift the 8spd cassette? Or do I have to get a new 9spd cassette? Also
I know that my rear derailer is compatible with both 8 and 9 gears.

Thanks,

Toros

Whoops. You'll need an 9-speed cassette and 9-speed chain, or an 8-speed
shifter.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Can't he just use the first 8 speeds? The high gear rd stop will prevent the
extra shift.

JJ said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:SJY1f.8195$sE3.6341@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

toros said:

Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
shift the 8spd cassette? Or do I have to get a new 9spd cassette? Also
I know that my rear derailer is compatible with both 8 and 9 gears.

Thanks,

Toros

Whoops. You'll need an 9-speed cassette and 9-speed chain, or an 8-speed
shifter.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Can't he just use the first 8 speeds? The high gear rd stop will prevent the
extra shift.

No, the cog spacing will be off.

"toros" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
shift the 8spd cassette? Or do I have to get a new 9spd cassette? Also
I know that my rear derailer is compatible with both 8 and 9 gears.

Thanks,

Toros

Toros, JTEK make a device called a ShiftMate that converts the lever pull to
allow shifters to be used with different derailleur. I looked at the
shiftmate website: http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm but did not see
anything for this combination.

I have had pretty good luck with rigging derailleur cable fixing bolts to
different places on the plate to get them to shift most anyghing but have
never tried this perticular combination. Since you have very little to loose
you might try some of the methods described at:
http://www.hubbub.com/ergoleverswshim9.htm

You might have to move the attachment point closer to the pivots to get more
travel per click.

Good luck!

Dave Reckoning
Noblesville, Indiana

toros said:

Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
shift the 8spd cassette?

Yes. Use the "alternate cable routing" shown at:

http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate

Quoted message said:

Or do I have to get a new 9spd cassette?

You don't have to, but next time you need to replace your cassette, that
would be a good upgrade.

Quoted message said:

I know that my rear derailer is compatible with both 8 and 9 gears.

They all are.

Sheldon "Where There's A Will..." Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| "Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, |
| it might be, and if it were so, it would be; |
| but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" |
| --Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

toros said:

Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
shift the 8spd cassette?

Yes. Use the "alternate cable routing" shown at:

http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate

Quoted message said:

Or do I have to get a new 9spd cassette?

You don't have to, but next time you need to replace your cassette, that
would be a good upgrade.

Quoted message said:

I know that my rear derailer is compatible with both 8 and 9 gears.

They all are.

Sheldon "Where There's A Will..." Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| "Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, |
| it might be, and if it were so, it would be; |
| but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" |
| --Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon, I saw the diagram on the alternate cable routing, but I'm not sure
how it makes the difference in shifting? Can you explain?
http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate
-tom

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

toros said:

Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
shift the 8spd cassette?

Yes. Use the "alternate cable routing" shown at:

http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate

Sheldon, please explain as I'm a bit confused....

The OP asked about using 9 speed shifters with an 8 speed cassette. The "alt
cable route" you showed above seems to indicate how to use a 6/7/8 speed
shifter with a newer (9 sp?) derailer. Aren't these two entirely different
scenarios?

How would the alt routing change the amount of cable pull needed to overcome
the different spacing on 8 and 9 speed cassettes?

Just wonderin'....

Tom

tcmedara said:

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

toros said:

Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter
can shift the 8spd cassette?

Yes. Use the "alternate cable routing" shown at:

http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate

Sheldon, please explain as I'm a bit confused....

The OP asked about using 9 speed shifters with an 8 speed cassette.
The "alt cable route" you showed above seems to indicate how to use a
6/7/8 speed shifter with a newer (9 sp?) derailer. Aren't these two
entirely different scenarios?

Look at the white-and-yellow table just above where the link takes you...

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

tcmedara said:

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

toros said:

Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
shift the 8spd cassette?

Yes. Use the "alternate cable routing" shown at:

http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate

Sheldon, please explain as I'm a bit confused....

The OP asked about using 9 speed shifters with an 8 speed cassette. The "alt
cable route" you showed above seems to indicate how to use a 6/7/8 speed
shifter with a newer (9 sp?) derailer. Aren't these two entirely different
scenarios?

Yeah, but they both work. Scroll up a tiny bit at sheldon's page for the
compatibility table.

Also see http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946 for a more
complete table, they've got Shimano derailers in 3 cable clamp variants
plus the two campys plus sram set out against all the standard shifters
and which, if any, cassettes or parts of cassettes can be shifted with
them. I notice they forgot to include old DA shifters though.

Quoted message said:

How would the alt routing change the amount of cable pull needed to overcome
the different spacing on 8 and 9 speed cassettes?

The alt routing basically alters the radius between the point the cable
pulls at and the pivot, therefore altering the derailers mechanical
advantage, or the ratio between cable pull and movement from sprocket to
sprocket.

Jasper

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

tcmedara said:

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

toros wrote:

> Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
> pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
> previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
> shift the 8spd cassette?

Yes. Use the "alternate cable routing" shown at:

http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate

Sheldon, please explain as I'm a bit confused....

The OP asked about using 9 speed shifters with an 8 speed cassette. The
"alt
cable route" you showed above seems to indicate how to use a 6/7/8 speed
shifter with a newer (9 sp?) derailer. Aren't these two entirely
different
scenarios?

Yeah, but they both work. Scroll up a tiny bit at sheldon's page for the
compatibility table.

Also see http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946 for a more
complete table, they've got Shimano derailers in 3 cable clamp variants
plus the two campys plus sram set out against all the standard shifters
and which, if any, cassettes or parts of cassettes can be shifted with
them. I notice they forgot to include old DA shifters though.

Quoted message said:

How would the alt routing change the amount of cable pull needed to
overcome
the different spacing on 8 and 9 speed cassettes?

The alt routing basically alters the radius between the point the cable
pulls at and the pivot, therefore altering the derailers mechanical
advantage, or the ratio between cable pull and movement from sprocket to
sprocket.

Jasper

So as stated in the two views, "Alternate Cable Routing (B)" provides a
convenient upgrade path, and as you're assuming alters the radius between
the point the cable pulls. Looking at the two diagrams, there is no radius
in the first place, looks like a direct pull (no radius) in the "Standard
Cable Routing (A)", while in the "Alternate Cable Routing (B)" you're
creating a radius to assist in shifting. I'm just not convinced how the
radius makes all that much of a difference. Can you explain how the radius
(bend) in the shifting cable makes a difference in the shifting?
If you can provide me a good explanation, I'll accept it and perhaps reroute
my cable, and if not, I'll look at it as another pointless post.
http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate
-tom

Toros said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
>>pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
>>previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
>>shift the 8spd cassette?

I replied:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Yes. Use the "alternate cable routing" shown at:
>http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate

Toros came back with:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sheldon, please explain as I'm a bit confused....

An anonymous "Tom" was also confused:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The OP asked about using 9 speed shifters with an 8 speed cassette. The
"alt
cable route" you showed above seems to indicate how to use a 6/7/8 speed
shifter with a newer (9 sp?) derailer. Aren't these two entirely
different
scenarios?

Jasper Janssen explained:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but they both work. Scroll up a tiny bit at sheldon's page for the
compatibility table.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The alt routing basically alters the radius between the point the cable
pulls at and the pivot, therefore altering the derailers mechanical
advantage, or the ratio between cable pull and movement from sprocket to
sprocket.

Tom Nakashima said:

So as stated in the two views, "Alternate Cable Routing (B)" provides a
convenient upgrade path, and as you're assuming alters the radius between
the point the cable pulls. Looking at the two diagrams, there is no radius
in the first place, looks like a direct pull (no radius) in the "Standard
Cable Routing (A)", while in the "Alternate Cable Routing (B)" you're
creating a radius to assist in shifting. I'm just not convinced how the
radius makes all that much of a difference. Can you explain how the radius
(bend) in the shifting cable makes a difference in the shifting?
If you can provide me a good explanation, I'll accept it and perhaps reroute
my cable, and if not, I'll look at it as another pointless post.
http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#alternate

Take it easy, Tom, and remember that English is not Jasper's first language.

The "radius" he refers to is not about the fact that the cable is
curved. A better choice of term, at least for those of us who studied
physics in the U.S., would have been "moment arm." However, the term
"radius" is also technically correct, though not conventional.

The derailer's cable anchor is mounted on an arm that protrudes outside
of the derailer's parallelogram. The mechanical advantage of the system
is proportional to the normal distance from the cable's travel line to
the pivot point at the nearest corner of the parallelogram.

The fact that the cable has a slight bend in it is beside the point.

Moving the cable attachment point closer to the pivot causes the
derailer to move farther per click, and conversely.

Sheldon "Is It Physics Or Geometry? Brown
+--------------------------------------------+
| Never worry about theory as long as the |
| machinery does what it's supposed to do. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JJ said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:SJY1f.8195$sE3.6341@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

toros wrote:
> Hi, I just broke one of my shifters and ordered a new pair. The new
> pair that came is apparently a 9 speed trigger shifter while my
> previous one was an 8 speed. Can I make it so that my 9spd shifter can
> shift the 8spd cassette? Or do I have to get a new 9spd cassette? Also
> I know that my rear derailer is compatible with both 8 and 9 gears.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Toros

Whoops. You'll need an 9-speed cassette and 9-speed chain, or an
8-speed
shifter.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Can't he just use the first 8 speeds? The high gear rd stop will prevent
the
extra shift.

No, the cog spacing will be off.

Easy fix, if it's a Shimano non-carrier casssette. Just replace the 8 speed
spacers with 9 speed ones.

Sheldon Brown said:

Take it easy, Tom, and remember that English is not Jasper's first language.

The "radius" he refers to is not about the fact that the cable is
curved. A better choice of term, at least for those of us who studied
physics in the U.S., would have been "moment arm." However, the term
"radius" is also technically correct, though not conventional.

Yeah, it was a bad choice of words. The distance in time between me and my
physics classes, my still-not-quite-perfect command of english
(particularly in specialist areas like that), and the glass of whisky I'd
had earlier that evening conspired against me.

Quoted message said:

Moving the cable attachment point closer to the pivot causes the
derailer to move farther per click, and conversely.

Incidentally, you *could* technically make a derailer where the cable
attachment point is mounted on a slide[1]. Put in some detents for the
most common indexing systems, and you'd have a true universal derailer. If
someone can figure out a way to modify decent-quality Campy or Shimano
derailers (or even better, a range of different qualities) in that way, it
might put the ShiftMate people out of business -- or at least provide them
with solid competition.

Jasper

[1] Preferably a slide that can be adjusted separately from the cable
anchor bolt, but using one bolt for both would be a relatively trivial
mod, and as long as the adjuster has decent travel, exact positioning of
the cable itself isn't really necessary, so you could just tighten it
while mainly looking at the ratio adjustment.

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sheldon Brown said:

Take it easy, Tom, and remember that English is not Jasper's first
language.

The "radius" he refers to is not about the fact that the cable is
curved. A better choice of term, at least for those of us who studied
physics in the U.S., would have been "moment arm." However, the term
"radius" is also technically correct, though not conventional.

Yeah, it was a bad choice of words. The distance in time between me and my
physics classes, my still-not-quite-perfect command of english
(particularly in specialist areas like that), and the glass of whisky I'd
had earlier that evening conspired against me.

I think you'll make a good physicist!
-tom

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yeah, it was a bad choice of words. The distance in time between me and my
physics classes, my still-not-quite-perfect command of english
(particularly in specialist areas like that), and the glass of whisky I'd
had earlier that evening conspired against me.

Physics classes???
Well I'll have to say, you're the 1st physics student (but not the 1st
drinking student) I've heard of who spends more time posting in newsgroups
than studying physics. So between your physics, math and english classes,
and spending most of your time posting in the newsgroups, when do you have
"distance in time" to ride?
-tom

Tom Nakashima said:

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yeah, it was a bad choice of words. The distance in time between me and my
physics classes, my still-not-quite-perfect command of english
(particularly in specialist areas like that), and the glass of whisky I'd
had earlier that evening conspired against me.

Quoted message said:

Physics classes???
Well I'll have to say, you're the 1st physics student (but not the 1st
drinking student) I've heard of who spends more time posting in newsgroups
than studying physics.

That would be because I'm not a physics student.

Quoted message said:

So between your physics, math and english classes,
and spending most of your time posting in the newsgroups, when do you have
"distance in time" to ride?

Please tell me what exactly I did to you to get you angry at me, besides
actually bothering to try to help you and getting called an untrustworthy
idiot in return.

Jasper