9/11...5th Anniversary

JimmyMac said:

OK, granted this is off topic, but this is not just any ordinary day.

Yup, it rained in much of the Upper Midwest, not a great day for
cycling.

Quoted message said:

Besides much of what is posted here is off topic, right Mr. Dolan???

Today is the 5th anniversay of a date that few will ever forget.

Today is the 36th anniversary of the introduction of the Ford Pinto,
for which the day will live in infamy (as for the Pinto based Mustang
II, let's not go there).

Quoted message said:

Most
will recall exactly where they were and what they were doing when their
daily routine was shattered by the news of horrific proportions.

If I recall correctly, I was eating a generic granola bar.

Quoted message said:

Today, I have been virtually glued to the History Channel.

Take your P-38 out on the North Branch Trail, man! The fresh air will
do you good.

Quoted message said:

Days following the
events surrounding 9/11, I was moved to write how I fealt at the time...

And...

Quoted message said:

No longer will we have the luxury to go about our daily lives, shrouded
in a false sense of security.

Yes, the Ford Pinto was a wake up call that the US automobile industry
needed to change its ways.

Quoted message said:

Our national psyche has been dealt a severe blow.
The morning of September 11th 2001 ushered in the dawn of
a frightening new world, one fraught with peril and uncertainty.
September 11th was one of the darkest days in our country's history; a
date that will be permanently etched on our communal consciousness and
collective memory as the day that freedom came under attack.

Imagine being forced to use Schrader valves on your bicycle!

Quoted message said:

The horrifying events that shattered the serenity of the early morning
hours, rocked our nation and left its residents traumatized in a grief
stricken aftermath. I sat transfixed in front of the television,
disheartened and numbed by the brutal, devastating scenes of carnage,
scenes that confronted us all with a grim, incomprehensible reality.
Broadcast around the globe were what appeared to be cataclysmic images
from a disaster movie, born of a Hollywood special effects team, only
this wasn't a movie.

I had chocolate. See <http://www.lindt.com/2865/2866.asp>. Mmmm...,
chocolate.

Quoted message said:

These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free world
nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.

You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?

Quoted message said:

It left our nation's residents
anguished and stunned into a state of shock and disbelief. These
senseless acts of barbarism have a reach and consequence that extends
far beyond our national borders. A seething current of outrage and
anger is emergent, galvanizing the free world.

The free world, covered in a layer of zinc! What a moment!

Quoted message said:

A clamor for retribution
is being echoed by a cacophony of voices, both here and abroad. The
unanimity of the message is unambiguous. For far too long, the
collective free world has been held hostage by the evil menace of
terrorism. Freedom is a value that is cherished, and freedom will be
defended. The unconscionable, heinous atrocities of 9/11 will not go
unpunished.

Yes, those at Ford Motor Company responsible for the Pinto must be made
to answer for their actions. This vehicle
<http://208.143.210.196/image6159%5C00000006.jpg> shares its heart with
the Ford Pinto, giving new meaning to the term "Go Postal".

Quoted message said:

If there is any measure of solace to be derived from this disaster, it
is that this heart wrenching reality will serve to galvanize nations
into a geopolitical/military coalition, one with a concerted resolve to
extinguish the scourge and tyranny of global terrorism. When the
responsible parties are identified, I anticipate that swift and
formidable reprisal will follow. This is the only response that a
terrorist understands. With eager anticipation, I anxiously await the
day when the terrorist becomes the victim ... when terror comes home to
the terrorist.

After the disaster of the Pinto, Ford Motor Company bases all its
successors on vehicles designed by its European operations.

--
Tom Sherman - I Feel Flippant!
I am supporting cannibalism by eating more nuts.

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JimmyMac wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free world
nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.

You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?

[...]

Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a territory
of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an attack
on the civilian population of New York City.

I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and not
behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one word),
as he is want to do from time to time.

Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the topics
of others.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JimmyMac wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free world
nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.

You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?

[...]

Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a territory
of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an attack
on the civilian population of New York City.

I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and not
behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one word),
as he is want to do from time to time.

Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the topics
of others.

I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I am for the most part in
agreement with you. WIth wounds still fresh for many, Tom Sherman's
response was one with inappropriate levity, however, he never indicated
that he was merely being flippant so there is not need to take him at
his word. Regardless, Tom's flippant response was unfitting and
imprudent. In addition, one might add that the death toll at the World
Trade Center exceeded that of Pearl Harbor. Our response, lest we
forget, (read two atom bombs) exceeded these death tolls by nearly a
hundred fold.

Jim McNamara

Quoted message said:

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"JimmyMac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JimmyMac wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
> world
> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.

You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?

[...]

Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
territory
of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
attack
on the civilian population of New York City.

I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
not
behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
word),
as he is want to do from time to time.

Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the
topics
of others.

I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I am for the most part in
agreement with you. WIth wounds still fresh for many, Tom Sherman's
response was one with inappropriate levity, however, he never indicated
that he was merely being flippant so there is not need to take him at
his word.

Here was his signature to his message that we both object to:

Tom Sherman - I Feel Flippant!

Regardless, Tom's flippant response was unfitting and

Quoted message said:

imprudent. In addition, one might add that the death toll at the World
Trade Center exceeded that of Pearl Harbor. Our response, lest we
forget, (read two atom bombs) exceeded these death tolls by nearly a
hundred fold.

Jim, I like you more and more when you post your own original messages.
There is no point in trolling me since I am the ultimate troll, but overall
a good troll.

I will say that the only true scoundrel I have ever encountered on these
newsgroups was one by the name of Ed Gin. Let's face it, most on these
cycling groups are pretty good guys and can take a bit of ribbing from me
without going berserk.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JimmyMac wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free world
nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.

You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?

[...]

Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a territory
of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an attack
on the civilian population of New York City.

The level of skill and precision exhibited by the thousands of Japanese
naval personnel involved in the Pearl Harbor attack certainly exceeds
that required to mug a few pilots and crash into a building. [1]

Speaking of deliberately crashing airplanes into things, the Japanese
resorted to "kamikaze" attacks due to the attrition of trained pilots.
It takes much less skill to fly an airplane into a ship than to hit it
with a bomb or torpedo launched from an airplane.

Quoted message said:

I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and not
behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one word),
as he is want to do from time to time.

When a car is successful, the name is reused on several generations of
redesign, e.g. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord. Notice that Ford Motor
Company has NOT reused the "Pinto" (or "badge engineered" Mercury
Bobcat) names.

Quoted message said:

Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the topics
of others.

Now this is clever - Mr. Ed Dolan playing the aggrieved with a straight
face, when he has turned many on-topic threads into off-topic flame
wars.

[1] Of course, there is rather strong circumstantial evidence that more
than airplanes were required to bring down WTC Buildings 1, 2 & 7 [2],
but the evidence has disappeared in Chinese steel (recycling) mills.
[2] WTC 7 collapsing from the attacks makes no sense at all, not to
mention many other circumstances that cast doubt on the veracity of the
official version of September 11, 2001.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

JimmyMac aka James McNamara said:

Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JimmyMac aka James McNamara wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free world
> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.

You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?

[...]

Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a territory
of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an attack
on the civilian population of New York City.

I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and not
behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one word),
as he is want to do from time to time.

Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the topics
of others.

I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I am for the most part in
agreement with you. WIth wounds still fresh for many, Tom Sherman's
response was one with inappropriate levity, however, he never indicated
that he was merely being flippant so there is not need to take him at
his word. Regardless, Tom's flippant response was unfitting and
imprudent.

Millions of US "blue collar middle class" jobs, such as assembly work
at Ford Motor Company, have been lost due to the incompetent management
that brought us vehicles like the Ford Pinto, while a Japanese company
with less than 1/10th the resources at the time was producing world
class vehicles, i.e. Honda Civic and Accord.

Quoted message said:

In addition, one might add that the death toll at the World
Trade Center exceeded that of Pearl Harbor. Our response, lest we
forget, (read two atom bombs) exceeded these death tolls by nearly a
hundred fold.

Hey, I wasn't the one showing off my "want to be columnist writing" by
starting an off-topic thread.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate said:

...
Jim [McNamara], I like you more and more when you post your own original messages.
There is no point in trolling me since I am the ultimate troll, but overall
a good troll.

I will say that the only true scoundrel I have ever encountered on these
newsgroups was one by the name of Ed Gin....

Eddie,

You make Jimmy sad by mentioning his ex-friend Ed Gin.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JimmyMac wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
> world
> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.

You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?

[...]

Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
territory
of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
attack
on the civilian population of New York City.

The level of skill and precision exhibited by the thousands of Japanese
naval personnel involved in the Pearl Harbor attack certainly exceeds
that required to mug a few pilots and crash into a building. [1]

Yes, but intent is everything. The fact is that the Japanese could not have
struck the U.S. homeland even if they had wanted to. Moreover, they attacked
military bases, not innocent civilians like the scum bag Islamists. I think
the Japanese also invaded the Aleutian Islands later on, another distant
territory of the U.S. I mean, just how pathetic can you get!

Quoted message said:

Speaking of deliberately crashing airplanes into things, the Japanese
resorted to "kamikaze" attacks due to the attrition of trained pilots.
It takes much less skill to fly an airplane into a ship than to hit it
with a bomb or torpedo launched from an airplane.

Yes, but the Japanese only became desperate in last stages of the war when
they knew all had been lost. But the murderous kamikaze nature of our two
enemies were and are the same. It is always best not to be a fanatic about
anything unless you wish to die.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
not
behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
word),
as he is want to do from time to time.

When a car is successful, the name is reused on several generations of
redesign, e.g. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord. Notice that Ford Motor
Company has NOT reused the "Pinto" (or "badge engineered" Mercury
Bobcat) names.

Your tirade about the Pinto belonged on its own thread, not on Jim's heart
felt remembrance to the 9/11 episode. However, it would have been OK for you
to post it there anyway provided you had not changed the subject heading.
NEVER do that with a fresh topic! Once a thread has gone on and one and has
gotten off the original topic, only then is it OK to change the subject
heading.

Frankly, I rather like those like Jim McNamara who post on various occasions
and holidays reminding us of how we can be better than we normally are. Life
goes by quickly and we are soon dead and in our graves.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the
topics
of others.

Now this is clever - Mr. Ed Dolan playing the aggrieved with a straight
face, when he has turned many on-topic threads into off-topic flame
wars.

I only do that after a topic has gone on and on to no purpose. I will also
only do that when whatever is posted is just too stupid for words. It is
very strange to me that you cannot tell a stupid post from an intelligent
one.

Every post is sui generis with me. I do not let old grievances ever color
what I post to any given message. Everyone is always free to start over with
me with every post. Just don't say say anything too stupid for words.

Quoted message said:

[1] Of course, there is rather strong circumstantial evidence that more
than airplanes were required to bring down WTC Buildings 1, 2 & 7 [2],
but the evidence has disappeared in Chinese steel (recycling) mills.
[2] WTC 7 collapsing from the attacks makes no sense at all, not to
mention many other circumstances that cast doubt on the veracity of the
official version of September 11, 2001.

Mr. Sherman, like all nincompoop liberals, has fallen prey to various
conspiracy theories regarding 9/11. He needs to get off those liberal blog
sites. They are rotting his brains.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Hey, everyone has to be somewhere, even you! So how do you like Chicagoland?

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate said:

...
Jim [McNamara], I like you more and more when you post your own original
messages.
There is no point in trolling me since I am the ultimate troll, but
overall
a good troll.

I will say that the only true scoundrel I have ever encountered on these
newsgroups was one by the name of Ed Gin....

Eddie,

You make Jimmy sad by mentioning his ex-friend Ed Gin.

I suspect Ed Gin was only a casual cycling acquaintance of Jim. However, I
will let him speak for himself on that score.

Have you not ever made the acquaintance of someone only to discover later
that he was a scoundrel?

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Of course you are here and not there, you blooming idiot! When the hell are
you ever going to get a signature that is worthy of you?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

"JimmyMac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> JimmyMac wrote:
[...]
>> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
>> world
>> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
>> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
>> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
>> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.
>
> You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
> that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?
[...]

Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
territory
of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
attack
on the civilian population of New York City.

I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
not
behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
word),
as he is want to do from time to time.

Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the
topics
of others.

I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I am for the most part in
agreement with you. WIth wounds still fresh for many, Tom Sherman's
response was one with inappropriate levity, however, he never indicated
that he was merely being flippant so there is not need to take him at
his word.

Here was his signature to his message that we both object to:

Tom Sherman - I Feel Flippant!

I somehow overlooked the signature, but placing the "disclaimer" at the
very bottom is akin to inserting an escape clause for the
unjustifiable. Tempted though I was, I didn't dignify Tom's nonsense
with a responce. Had I responded, I would likey have said that not
mentioning Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto and/or the attack on Pearl Harbor
should not be misconstured. An ommission does not equate to an
oversight or connote any intention on the part of the author (me). The
focal point of the subject matter was 9/11 an it was the 5 year
anniversary. It was not the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Tom's curious, light-hearted response appears to reveal an
inappropriate lack of sensitivity not toward me the author but toward
the victims.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Regardless, Tom's flippant response was unfitting and
imprudent. In addition, one might add that the death toll at the World
Trade Center exceeded that of Pearl Harbor. Our response, lest we
forget, (read two atom bombs) exceeded these death tolls by nearly a
hundred fold.

Jim, I like you more and more when you post your own original messages.
There is no point in trolling me since I am the ultimate troll, but overall
a good troll.

I though you claimed time and time again that I NEVER post ANY original
messages and I thought that you denied being a troll. Like me? Forget
it. You and I will never be buds. I just think that you enjoy the
respite from me getting in your face an giving you [censored] like you do to
others.

Quoted message said:

I will say that the only true scoundrel I have ever encountered on these
newsgroups was one by the name of Ed Gin. Let's face it, most on these
cycling groups are pretty good guys and can take a bit of ribbing from me
without going berserk.

Perhaps so, but I have not forgotten that on several occassions you
linked me with Ed Gin, indicated that you understood why he would have
issues with me and said he played me for the fool. You even went so
far as to say that we deserved one another. As strongly as I feel
about the mann, I consider those remarks as ones which exceed a just
bit of ribbing.

Jim McNamara

Quoted message said:

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> JimmyMac wrote:
[...]
>> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
>> world
>> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
>> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
>> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
>> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.
>
> You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
> that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?
[...]

Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
territory
of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
attack
on the civilian population of New York City.

The level of skill and precision exhibited by the thousands of Japanese
naval personnel involved in the Pearl Harbor attack certainly exceeds
that required to mug a few pilots and crash into a building. [1]

Yes, but intent is everything. The fact is that the Japanese could not have
struck the U.S. homeland even if they had wanted to. Moreover, they attacked
military bases, not innocent civilians like the scum bag Islamists. I think
the Japanese also invaded the Aleutian Islands later on, another distant
territory of the U.S. I mean, just how pathetic can you get!

Quoted message said:

Speaking of deliberately crashing airplanes into things, the Japanese
resorted to "kamikaze" attacks due to the attrition of trained pilots.
It takes much less skill to fly an airplane into a ship than to hit it
with a bomb or torpedo launched from an airplane.

Yes, but the Japanese only became desperate in last stages of the war when
they knew all had been lost. But the murderous kamikaze nature of our two
enemies were and are the same. It is always best not to be a fanatic about
anything unless you wish to die.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
not
behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
word),
as he is want to do from time to time.

When a car is successful, the name is reused on several generations of
redesign, e.g. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord. Notice that Ford Motor
Company has NOT reused the "Pinto" (or "badge engineered" Mercury
Bobcat) names.

Your tirade about the Pinto belonged on its own thread, not on Jim's heart
felt remembrance to the 9/11 episode. However, it would have been OK for you
to post it there anyway provided you had not changed the subject heading.
NEVER do that with a fresh topic! Once a thread has gone on and one and has
gotten off the original topic, only then is it OK to change the subject
heading.

Frankly, I rather like those like Jim McNamara who post on various occasions
and holidays reminding us of how we can be better than we normally are. Life
goes by quickly and we are soon dead and in our graves.

Thanks for you support I guess. You know there There is much that I
could contribute to this the course that this thread has taken, but
simply don't have the time or the incloination at the momentand I don't
feel that the direction it is going has anything to do with my original
post. On another note, Tom has been trying to draw me in for some
reason. I guess he has recovered from our last skirmish and is itchin'
for a fight. On still another note, although Ed Gin was more than
just a casual cycling acquaintance at one time, I am certainly not
saddened by the mentioning of hm being an ex-friend as Tom asserted. I
would have it no other way. EX works for me. I'll also take Tom's
comment regarding my "want to be columnist writing" as recognition
that I write will and leave it at that since I could care less what he
thinks. I don't need his opinion or his confirmation. - Jim McNamara.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the
topics
of others.

Now this is clever - Mr. Ed Dolan playing the aggrieved with a straight
face, when he has turned many on-topic threads into off-topic flame
wars.

I only do that after a topic has gone on and on to no purpose. I will also
only do that when whatever is posted is just too stupid for words. It is
very strange to me that you cannot tell a stupid post from an intelligent
one.

Every post is sui generis with me. I do not let old grievances ever color
what I post to any given message. Everyone is always free to start over with
me with every post. Just don't say say anything too stupid for words.

Quoted message said:

[1] Of course, there is rather strong circumstantial evidence that more
than airplanes were required to bring down WTC Buildings 1, 2 & 7 [2],
but the evidence has disappeared in Chinese steel (recycling) mills.
[2] WTC 7 collapsing from the attacks makes no sense at all, not to
mention many other circumstances that cast doubt on the veracity of the
official version of September 11, 2001.

Mr. Sherman, like all nincompoop liberals, has fallen prey to various
conspiracy theories regarding 9/11. He needs to get off those liberal blog
sites. They are rotting his brains.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Hey, everyone has to be somewhere, even you! So how do you like Chicagoland?

JimmyMac said:

Edward Dolan said:

"JimmyMac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> >
> > JimmyMac wrote:
> [...]
> >> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
> >> world
> >> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
> >> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
> >> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
> >> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.
> >
> > You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
> > that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?
> [...]
>
> Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
> Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
> territory
> of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
> attack
> on the civilian population of New York City.
>
> I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
> not
> behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
> word),
> as he is want to do from time to time.
>
> Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
> Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
> this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
> then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the
> topics
> of others.

I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I am for the most part in
agreement with you. WIth wounds still fresh for many, Tom Sherman's
response was one with inappropriate levity, however, he never indicated
that he was merely being flippant so there is not need to take him at
his word.

Here was his signature to his message that we both object to:

Tom Sherman - I Feel Flippant!

I somehow overlooked the signature, but placing the "disclaimer" at the
very bottom is akin to inserting an escape clause for the
unjustifiable. Tempted though I was, I didn't dignify Tom's nonsense
with a responce. Had I responded, I would likey have said that not
mentioning Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto and/or the attack on Pearl Harbor
should not be misconstured. An ommission does not equate to an
oversight or connote any intention on the part of the author (me). The
focal point of the subject matter was 9/11 an it was the 5 year
anniversary. It was not the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Tom's curious, light-hearted response appears to reveal an
inappropriate lack of sensitivity not toward me the author but toward
the victims....

Well, sometimes people show off their overwrought, hyperbolic, want to
be a columnist but didn't make it writing - do you expect me to respond
seriously? How much precision does it take to knife a pilot with a box
cutter anyhow? More than launching hundreds of aircrafts after
traveling thousands of miles in radio silence?

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

JimmyMac said:

Edward Dolan said:

"JimmyMac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>> news:[email hidden]...
>> >
>> > JimmyMac wrote:
>> [...]
>> >> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
>> >> world
>> >> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
>> >> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
>> >> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
>> >> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.
>> >
>> > You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
>> > that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?
>> [...]
>>
>> Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
>> Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
>> territory
>> of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
>> attack
>> on the civilian population of New York City.
>>
>> I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
>> not
>> behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
>> word),
>> as he is want to do from time to time.
>>
>> Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
>> Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
>> this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
>> then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the
>> topics
>> of others.
>
> I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I am for the most part in
> agreement with you. WIth wounds still fresh for many, Tom Sherman's
> response was one with inappropriate levity, however, he never indicated
> that he was merely being flippant so there is not need to take him at
> his word.

Here was his signature to his message that we both object to:

Tom Sherman - I Feel Flippant!

I somehow overlooked the signature, but placing the "disclaimer" at the
very bottom is akin to inserting an escape clause for the
unjustifiable. Tempted though I was, I didn't dignify Tom's nonsense
with a responce. Had I responded, I would likey have said that not
mentioning Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto and/or the attack on Pearl Harbor
should not be misconstured. An ommission does not equate to an
oversight or connote any intention on the part of the author (me). The
focal point of the subject matter was 9/11 an it was the 5 year
anniversary. It was not the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Tom's curious, light-hearted response appears to reveal an
inappropriate lack of sensitivity not toward me the author but toward
the victims....

Well, sometimes people show off their overwrought, hyperbolic, want to
be a columnist but didn't make it writing - do you expect me to respond
seriously? How much precision does it take to knife a pilot with a box
cutter anyhow? More than launching hundreds of aircrafts after
traveling thousands of miles in radio silence?

Tom,

I really didn't even expect you to reply, let alone in such a flippant
and telling fashion. Jealousy doesn't become you, Tom. Actually, I
wasn't showing off and I'll certainly not apologize for being
articulate, but I will accept your "want to be columnist" comment as a
compliment. I never tried to be a writer although I have had several
articles published in magazines and newspapers, so you could say I made
the grade. Hyperbole? What I wrote was sincere and heart felt ...
yes, but exaggerated ... no. Words can't possibly begin to express the
emotion of that day. What you don't understand is that what I wrote
was about the event itself, the aftermath that ensued and the effects
it had on people. I fail to comprehend why you insist on distorting
and demeaning my original message and/or my intentions. Why must you
reduce and bastardize my message into a compare and contrast scenario
in order to assess which event took more skill, cunning and precision
to implement? What I wrote had nothing remotely to do with the Ford
Pinto. What I wrote had nothing remotely to do with Pearl Harbor.
What you wrote in response had everything to do with a lack of
sensitivity and compassion and now you are attempting to rationalize
the unjustifiable. Too late, Tom ... What's done is done. For some
reason known only to you, you were apparently unable to take what I
wrote at face value. You couldn't help yourself. I suppose you are
a victim of your engineer mentality and I can't help you there.

Jim McNamara

--

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

JimmyMac said:

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

JimmyMac said:

Edward Dolan wrote:
> "JimmyMac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> >
> > Edward Dolan wrote:
> >> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email hidden]...
> >> >
> >> > JimmyMac wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> >> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
> >> >> world
> >> >> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
> >> >> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
> >> >> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
> >> >> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.
> >> >
> >> > You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
> >> > that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
> >> Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
> >> territory
> >> of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
> >> attack
> >> on the civilian population of New York City.
> >>
> >> I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
> >> not
> >> behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
> >> word),
> >> as he is want to do from time to time.
> >>
> >> Also, I do not think it was proper of you to change the topic heading of
> >> Jim's post. After all, he is entitled to say whatever he wants to say on
> >> this forum as are you and I. If you want to blather on about Ford Pintos,
> >> then post your own original message on the subject. Do not hijack the
> >> topics
> >> of others.
> >
> > I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I am for the most part in
> > agreement with you. WIth wounds still fresh for many, Tom Sherman's
> > response was one with inappropriate levity, however, he never indicated
> > that he was merely being flippant so there is not need to take him at
> > his word.
>
> Here was his signature to his message that we both object to:
>
> Tom Sherman - I Feel Flippant!

I somehow overlooked the signature, but placing the "disclaimer" at the
very bottom is akin to inserting an escape clause for the
unjustifiable. Tempted though I was, I didn't dignify Tom's nonsense
with a responce. Had I responded, I would likey have said that not
mentioning Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto and/or the attack on Pearl Harbor
should not be misconstured. An ommission does not equate to an
oversight or connote any intention on the part of the author (me). The
focal point of the subject matter was 9/11 an it was the 5 year
anniversary. It was not the anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Tom's curious, light-hearted response appears to reveal an
inappropriate lack of sensitivity not toward me the author but toward
the victims....

Well, sometimes people show off their overwrought, hyperbolic, want to
be a columnist but didn't make it writing - do you expect me to respond
seriously? How much precision does it take to knife a pilot with a box
cutter anyhow? More than launching hundreds of aircrafts after
traveling thousands of miles in radio silence?

Tom,

I really didn't even expect you to reply, let alone in such a flippant
and telling fashion. Jealousy doesn't become you, Tom.

Jealous of the original post? ROTFL.

Quoted message said:

Actually, I
wasn't showing off and I'll certainly not apologize for being
articulate, but I will accept your "want to be columnist" comment as a
compliment. I never tried to be a writer although I have had several
articles published in magazines and newspapers, so you could say I made
the grade. Hyperbole? What I wrote was sincere and heart felt ...
yes, but exaggerated ... no. Words can't possibly begin to express the
emotion of that day. What you don't understand is that what I wrote
was about the event itself, the aftermath that ensued and the effects
it had on people. I fail to comprehend why you insist on distorting
and demeaning my original message and/or my intentions.

A hell of a lot more people have died due to greed driven violence and
billions more (if not the entire human species) will likely die
unpleasant deaths due to collective inability of societies to live in a
sustainable manner. Compared to this, what are a few thousand people, a
few high-rise buildings, and a few aeroplanes? Most people on the
planet now living are doomed to a "short, nasty and brutish existence
(as Hobbes might put it), so get over September 11, 2001 already. If
you found the events of that day shocking, it is because you were
living the deluded "American" existence of being above the miseries of
other societies.

Human civilization has passed its peak, and the downhill ride is going
to be ugly. Enjoy!

Quoted message said:

Why must you
reduce and bastardize my message into a compare and contrast scenario
in order to assess which event took more skill, cunning and precision
to implement? What I wrote had nothing remotely to do with the Ford
Pinto. What I wrote had nothing remotely to do with Pearl Harbor.

I changed the subject line to reflect the change in subject. This is
proper Usenet etiquette.

A complaint about comparing and contrasting is funny coming from
someone who wrote "The level of precision and the enormity of scale of
this methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented", as this
statement is a comparison.

Quoted message said:

What you wrote in response had everything to do with a lack of
sensitivity and compassion and now you are attempting to rationalize
the unjustifiable. Too late, Tom ... What's done is done. For some
reason known only to you, you were apparently unable to take what I
wrote at face value. You couldn't help yourself. I suppose you are
a victim of your engineer mentality and I can't help you there.

Oh please! Don't start off-topic trolls and expect not to be called out
on it.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

JimmyMac said:

Edward Dolan said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate wrote:
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> >
> > JimmyMac wrote:
> [...]
> >> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
> >> world
> >> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
> >> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
> >> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
> >> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.
> >
> > You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
> > that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?
> [...]
>
> Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
> Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
> territory
> of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
> attack
> on the civilian population of New York City.

The level of skill and precision exhibited by the thousands of Japanese
naval personnel involved in the Pearl Harbor attack certainly exceeds
that required to mug a few pilots and crash into a building. [1]

Yes, but intent is everything. The fact is that the Japanese could not have
struck the U.S. homeland even if they had wanted to. Moreover, they attacked
military bases, not innocent civilians like the scum bag Islamists. I think
the Japanese also invaded the Aleutian Islands later on, another distant
territory of the U.S. I mean, just how pathetic can you get!

Quoted message said:

Speaking of deliberately crashing airplanes into things, the Japanese
resorted to "kamikaze" attacks due to the attrition of trained pilots.
It takes much less skill to fly an airplane into a ship than to hit it
with a bomb or torpedo launched from an airplane.

Yes, but the Japanese only became desperate in last stages of the war when
they knew all had been lost. But the murderous kamikaze nature of our two
enemies were and are the same. It is always best not to be a fanatic about
anything unless you wish to die.

Quoted message said:

> I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
> not
> behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
> word),
> as he is want to do from time to time.

When a car is successful, the name is reused on several generations of
redesign, e.g. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord. Notice that Ford Motor
Company has NOT reused the "Pinto" (or "badge engineered" Mercury
Bobcat) names.

Your tirade about the Pinto belonged on its own thread, not on Jim's heart
felt remembrance to the 9/11 episode. However, it would have been OK for you
to post it there anyway provided you had not changed the subject heading.
NEVER do that with a fresh topic! Once a thread has gone on and one and has
gotten off the original topic, only then is it OK to change the subject
heading.

Frankly, I rather like those like Jim McNamara who post on various occasions
and holidays reminding us of how we can be better than we normally are. Life
goes by quickly and we are soon dead and in our graves.

Thanks for you support I guess. You know there There is much that I
could contribute to this the course that this thread has taken, but
simply don't have the time or the incloination at the momentand I don't
feel that the direction it is going has anything to do with my original
post. On another note, Tom has been trying to draw me in for some
reason. I guess he has recovered from our last skirmish and is itchin'
for a fight.

Don't troll the newsgroups with self-promotion disguised as the
patriotic line" and expect not to have it pointed out.

Quoted message said:

On still another note, although Ed Gin was more than
just a casual cycling acquaintance at one time, I am certainly not
saddened by the mentioning of hm being an ex-friend as Tom asserted. I
would have it no other way. EX works for me....

Why do so many people report evidence that indicates the contrary? Is
there a Chicagoland vendetta against Jimmy Mac?

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

JimmyMac said:

Edward Dolan said:

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate wrote:
>> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>> news:[email hidden]...
>> >
>> > JimmyMac wrote:
>> [...]
>> >> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
>> >> world
>> >> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
>> >> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
>> >> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
>> >> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.
>> >
>> > You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
>> > that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?
>> [...]
>>
>> Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
>> Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
>> territory
>> of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
>> attack
>> on the civilian population of New York City.
>
> The level of skill and precision exhibited by the thousands of Japanese
> naval personnel involved in the Pearl Harbor attack certainly exceeds
> that required to mug a few pilots and crash into a building. [1]

Yes, but intent is everything. The fact is that the Japanese could not have
struck the U.S. homeland even if they had wanted to. Moreover, they attacked
military bases, not innocent civilians like the scum bag Islamists. I think
the Japanese also invaded the Aleutian Islands later on, another distant
territory of the U.S. I mean, just how pathetic can you get!

> Speaking of deliberately crashing airplanes into things, the Japanese
> resorted to "kamikaze" attacks due to the attrition of trained pilots.
> It takes much less skill to fly an airplane into a ship than to hit it
> with a bomb or torpedo launched from an airplane.

Yes, but the Japanese only became desperate in last stages of the war when
they knew all had been lost. But the murderous kamikaze nature of our two
enemies were and are the same. It is always best not to be a fanatic about
anything unless you wish to die.

>> I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
>> not
>> behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
>> word),
>> as he is want to do from time to time.
>
> When a car is successful, the name is reused on several generations of
> redesign, e.g. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord. Notice that Ford Motor
> Company has NOT reused the "Pinto" (or "badge engineered" Mercury
> Bobcat) names.

Your tirade about the Pinto belonged on its own thread, not on Jim's heart
felt remembrance to the 9/11 episode. However, it would have been OK for you
to post it there anyway provided you had not changed the subject heading.
NEVER do that with a fresh topic! Once a thread has gone on and one and has
gotten off the original topic, only then is it OK to change the subject
heading.

Frankly, I rather like those like Jim McNamara who post on various occasions
and holidays reminding us of how we can be better than we normally are. Life
goes by quickly and we are soon dead and in our graves.

Thanks for you support I guess. You know there There is much that I
could contribute to this the course that this thread has taken, but
simply don't have the time or the incloination at the momentand I don't
feel that the direction it is going has anything to do with my original
post. On another note, Tom has been trying to draw me in for some
reason. I guess he has recovered from our last skirmish and is itchin'
for a fight.

Don't troll the newsgroups with self-promotion disguised as the
patriotic line" and expect not to have it pointed out.

Opinion state as fact and yours is an opinion that is as of yet
unsupported by any like commentary from the readership. Your response
was unfitting and you have since attempted to divert the focus of
intent from you to me ... clever, but you failed. You misconstrued my
intent, but that matters not because you matter not.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On still another note, although Ed Gin was more than
just a casual cycling acquaintance at one time, I am certainly not
saddened by the mentioning of hm being an ex-friend as Tom asserted. I
would have it no other way. EX works for me....

Why do so many people report evidence that indicates the contrary? Is
there a Chicagoland vendetta against Jimmy Mac?

More opinion stated as fact. This is getting to be a bad habit. And
just who are these nebulous "so many" and where is your "evidence" ...
proof I belive you prefer to call it. The burden of proof rest with
the accuser and unsubstantiated assertion does not a fact make. I am
unaware of any vendetta and frankly I couldn't care less and I am
reasonably certain that Ed's other ex-friends feel likewise. The
original thread had nothing to do with Ed Gin and it should have
remained as such.

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

JimmyMac said:

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

JimmyMac said:

Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> >
> > Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate wrote:
> >> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email hidden]...
> >> >
> >> > JimmyMac wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> >> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
> >> >> world
> >> >> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
> >> >> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
> >> >> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
> >> >> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.
> >> >
> >> > You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
> >> > that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
> >> Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
> >> territory
> >> of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
> >> attack
> >> on the civilian population of New York City.
> >
> > The level of skill and precision exhibited by the thousands of Japanese
> > naval personnel involved in the Pearl Harbor attack certainly exceeds
> > that required to mug a few pilots and crash into a building. [1]
>
> Yes, but intent is everything. The fact is that the Japanese could not have
> struck the U.S. homeland even if they had wanted to. Moreover, they attacked
> military bases, not innocent civilians like the scum bag Islamists. I think
> the Japanese also invaded the Aleutian Islands later on, another distant
> territory of the U.S. I mean, just how pathetic can you get!
>
> > Speaking of deliberately crashing airplanes into things, the Japanese
> > resorted to "kamikaze" attacks due to the attrition of trained pilots.
> > It takes much less skill to fly an airplane into a ship than to hit it
> > with a bomb or torpedo launched from an airplane.
>
> Yes, but the Japanese only became desperate in last stages of the war when
> they knew all had been lost. But the murderous kamikaze nature of our two
> enemies were and are the same. It is always best not to be a fanatic about
> anything unless you wish to die.
>
> >> I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
> >> not
> >> behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
> >> word),
> >> as he is want to do from time to time.
> >
> > When a car is successful, the name is reused on several generations of
> > redesign, e.g. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord. Notice that Ford Motor
> > Company has NOT reused the "Pinto" (or "badge engineered" Mercury
> > Bobcat) names.
>
> Your tirade about the Pinto belonged on its own thread, not on Jim's heart
> felt remembrance to the 9/11 episode. However, it would have been OK for you
> to post it there anyway provided you had not changed the subject heading.
> NEVER do that with a fresh topic! Once a thread has gone on and one and has
> gotten off the original topic, only then is it OK to change the subject
> heading.
>
> Frankly, I rather like those like Jim McNamara who post on various occasions
> and holidays reminding us of how we can be better than we normally are. Life
> goes by quickly and we are soon dead and in our graves.

Thanks for you support I guess. You know there There is much that I
could contribute to this the course that this thread has taken, but
simply don't have the time or the incloination at the momentand I don't
feel that the direction it is going has anything to do with my original
post. On another note, Tom has been trying to draw me in for some
reason. I guess he has recovered from our last skirmish and is itchin'
for a fight.

Don't troll the newsgroups with self-promotion disguised as the
patriotic line" and expect not to have it pointed out.

Opinion state as fact and yours is an opinion that is as of yet
unsupported by any like commentary from the readership. Your response
was unfitting and you have since attempted to divert the focus of
intent from you to me ... clever, but you failed. You misconstrued my
intent, but that matters not because you matter not.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

For some reason when people mention September 11, 2001, there is a
ridiculous unwritten rule in the US that it gives validity to whatever
else they say, and put it beyond criticism. JimmyMac exploited this to
self-promote his writing. Enough said.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On still another note, although Ed Gin was more than
just a casual cycling acquaintance at one time, I am certainly not
saddened by the mentioning of hm being an ex-friend as Tom asserted. I
would have it no other way. EX works for me....

Why do so many people report evidence that indicates the contrary? Is
there a Chicagoland vendetta against Jimmy Mac?

More opinion stated as fact. This is getting to be a bad habit. And
just who are these nebulous "so many" and where is your "evidence" ...
proof I belive you prefer to call it. The burden of proof rest with
the accuser and unsubstantiated assertion does not a fact make. I am
unaware of any vendetta and frankly I couldn't care less and I am
reasonably certain that Ed's other ex-friends feel likewise. The
original thread had nothing to do with Ed Gin and it should have
remained as such.

Oh, why do so many people lie to me? 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.
I am supporting cannibalism by eating more nuts.

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

JimmyMac said:

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

JimmyMac wrote:
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > news:[email hidden]...
> > >
> > > Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate wrote:
> > >> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > >> news:[email hidden]...
> > >> >
> > >> > JimmyMac wrote:
> > >> [...]
> > >> >> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
> > >> >> world
> > >> >> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
> > >> >> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
> > >> >> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
> > >> >> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.
> > >> >
> > >> > You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
> > >> > that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?
> > >> [...]
> > >>
> > >> Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
> > >> Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
> > >> territory
> > >> of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
> > >> attack
> > >> on the civilian population of New York City.
> > >
> > > The level of skill and precision exhibited by the thousands of Japanese
> > > naval personnel involved in the Pearl Harbor attack certainly exceeds
> > > that required to mug a few pilots and crash into a building. [1]
> >
> > Yes, but intent is everything. The fact is that the Japanese could not have
> > struck the U.S. homeland even if they had wanted to. Moreover, they attacked
> > military bases, not innocent civilians like the scum bag Islamists. I think
> > the Japanese also invaded the Aleutian Islands later on, another distant
> > territory of the U.S. I mean, just how pathetic can you get!
> >
> > > Speaking of deliberately crashing airplanes into things, the Japanese
> > > resorted to "kamikaze" attacks due to the attrition of trained pilots.
> > > It takes much less skill to fly an airplane into a ship than to hit it
> > > with a bomb or torpedo launched from an airplane.
> >
> > Yes, but the Japanese only became desperate in last stages of the war when
> > they knew all had been lost. But the murderous kamikaze nature of our two
> > enemies were and are the same. It is always best not to be a fanatic about
> > anything unless you wish to die.
> >
> > >> I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
> > >> not
> > >> behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
> > >> word),
> > >> as he is want to do from time to time.
> > >
> > > When a car is successful, the name is reused on several generations of
> > > redesign, e.g. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord. Notice that Ford Motor
> > > Company has NOT reused the "Pinto" (or "badge engineered" Mercury
> > > Bobcat) names.
> >
> > Your tirade about the Pinto belonged on its own thread, not on Jim's heart
> > felt remembrance to the 9/11 episode. However, it would have been OK for you
> > to post it there anyway provided you had not changed the subject heading.
> > NEVER do that with a fresh topic! Once a thread has gone on and one and has
> > gotten off the original topic, only then is it OK to change the subject
> > heading.
> >
> > Frankly, I rather like those like Jim McNamara who post on various occasions
> > and holidays reminding us of how we can be better than we normally are. Life
> > goes by quickly and we are soon dead and in our graves.
>
> Thanks for you support I guess. You know there There is much that I
> could contribute to this the course that this thread has taken, but
> simply don't have the time or the incloination at the momentand I don't
> feel that the direction it is going has anything to do with my original
> post. On another note, Tom has been trying to draw me in for some
> reason. I guess he has recovered from our last skirmish and is itchin'
> for a fight.

Don't troll the newsgroups with self-promotion disguised as the
patriotic line" and expect not to have it pointed out.

Opinion state as fact and yours is an opinion that is as of yet
unsupported by any like commentary from the readership. Your response
was unfitting and you have since attempted to divert the focus of
intent from you to me ... clever, but you failed. You misconstrued my
intent, but that matters not because you matter not.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Thank you for providing us with your self-portrait.

Quoted message said:

For some reason when people mention September 11, 2001, there is a
ridiculous unwritten rule in the US that it gives validity to whatever
else they say, and put it beyond criticism. JimmyMac exploited this to
self-promote his writing. Enough said.

Opinion stated as fact, again??? What you have presented is a
declaration that is made emphatically as if no supporting evidence were
necessary. Perhaps you should have qualified your OPINION with
something like ... "It is my own personal opinion", because that is
all that it is. No matter how many times you repeat your opinion, it
will not become any more or less true than it was in initially. It
should be obvious that repitition alone is not a substitute for a valid
argument. An unsubstantiated assertion does not a fact make. Now,
enough has been said!!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On still another note, although Ed Gin was more than
> just a casual cycling acquaintance at one time, I am certainly not
> saddened by the mentioning of hm being an ex-friend as Tom asserted. I
> would have it no other way. EX works for me....

Why do so many people report evidence that indicates the contrary? Is
there a Chicagoland vendetta against Jimmy Mac?

More opinion stated as fact. This is getting to be a bad habit. And
just who are these nebulous "so many" and where is your "evidence" ...
proof I belive you prefer to call it. The burden of proof rests with
the accuser and unsubstantiated assertion does not a fact make. I am
unaware of any vendetta and frankly I couldn't care less and I am
reasonably certain that Ed's other ex-friends feel likewise. The
original thread had nothing to do with Ed Gin and it should have
remained as such.

Oh, why do so many people lie to me? 😉

Perhpas because you are blinded by your affinity with your associates
that you are receptive to whatever is said of me, or perhaps becuase
you are not open-minded and objective, unwilling to hear but only one
side of a story, but what does this have do do with your
unsubstantiated assertion??? Since no names or evidence have been
provided, why should I not assume that you are lying? Regardless, like
I said before, I couldn't care less. In the greater scheme of things
this matters no ... Ed Gin matters not and Ed Gin's mout piece (you)
matter not.

Jim McNamara

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman - Here, not there.
I am supporting cannibalism by eating more nuts.

JimmyMac said:

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

JimmyMac said:

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> JimmyMac wrote:
> > Edward Dolan wrote:
> > > "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email hidden]...
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate wrote:
> > > >> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > >> news:[email hidden]...
> > > >> >
> > > >> > JimmyMac wrote:
> > > >> [...]
> > > >> >> These tragic events exploited the naive vulnerabilities of a free
> > > >> >> world
> > > >> >> nation and exposed an egregious failure within its intelligence
> > > >> >> community. The level of precision and the enormity of scale of this
> > > >> >> methodical, systematic attack were unprecedented. This was a
> > > >> >> catastrophe of unparalleled proportion.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > You have just hurt the feelings of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Remember
> > > >> > that little incident on Oahu on December 7, 1941?
> > > >> [...]
> > > >>
> > > >> Pearl Harbor was not on the same scale as the World Trade Center. Why?
> > > >> Because it was an attack on a military base which was located in a
> > > >> territory
> > > >> of the U.S. halfway around the world - not quite the same thing as an
> > > >> attack
> > > >> on the civilian population of New York City.
> > > >
> > > > The level of skill and precision exhibited by the thousands of Japanese
> > > > naval personnel involved in the Pearl Harbor attack certainly exceeds
> > > > that required to mug a few pilots and crash into a building. [1]
> > >
> > > Yes, but intent is everything. The fact is that the Japanese could not have
> > > struck the U.S. homeland even if they had wanted to. Moreover, they attacked
> > > military bases, not innocent civilians like the scum bag Islamists. I think
> > > the Japanese also invaded the Aleutian Islands later on, another distant
> > > territory of the U.S. I mean, just how pathetic can you get!
> > >
> > > > Speaking of deliberately crashing airplanes into things, the Japanese
> > > > resorted to "kamikaze" attacks due to the attrition of trained pilots.
> > > > It takes much less skill to fly an airplane into a ship than to hit it
> > > > with a bomb or torpedo launched from an airplane.
> > >
> > > Yes, but the Japanese only became desperate in last stages of the war when
> > > they knew all had been lost. But the murderous kamikaze nature of our two
> > > enemies were and are the same. It is always best not to be a fanatic about
> > > anything unless you wish to die.
> > >
> > > >> I will take Mr. Sherman at his word that he is merely being flippant and
> > > >> not
> > > >> behaving like some far left wing liberal nut and screwball (all one
> > > >> word),
> > > >> as he is want to do from time to time.
> > > >
> > > > When a car is successful, the name is reused on several generations of
> > > > redesign, e.g. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord. Notice that Ford Motor
> > > > Company has NOT reused the "Pinto" (or "badge engineered" Mercury
> > > > Bobcat) names.
> > >
> > > Your tirade about the Pinto belonged on its own thread, not on Jim's heart
> > > felt remembrance to the 9/11 episode. However, it would have been OK for you
> > > to post it there anyway provided you had not changed the subject heading.
> > > NEVER do that with a fresh topic! Once a thread has gone on and one and has
> > > gotten off the original topic, only then is it OK to change the subject
> > > heading.
> > >
> > > Frankly, I rather like those like Jim McNamara who post on various occasions
> > > and holidays reminding us of how we can be better than we normally are. Life
> > > goes by quickly and we are soon dead and in our graves.
> >
> > Thanks for you support I guess. You know there There is much that I
> > could contribute to this the course that this thread has taken, but
> > simply don't have the time or the incloination at the momentand I don't
> > feel that the direction it is going has anything to do with my original
> > post. On another note, Tom has been trying to draw me in for some
> > reason. I guess he has recovered from our last skirmish and is itchin'
> > for a fight.
>
> Don't troll the newsgroups with self-promotion disguised as the
> patriotic line" and expect not to have it pointed out.

Opinion state as fact and yours is an opinion that is as of yet
unsupported by any like commentary from the readership. Your response
was unfitting and you have since attempted to divert the focus of
intent from you to me ... clever, but you failed. You misconstrued my
intent, but that matters not because you matter not.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Thank you for providing us with your self-portrait.

Quoted message said:

For some reason when people mention September 11, 2001, there is a
ridiculous unwritten rule in the US that it gives validity to whatever
else they say, and put it beyond criticism. JimmyMac exploited this to
self-promote his writing. Enough said.

Opinion stated as fact, again??? What you have presented is a
declaration that is made emphatically as if no supporting evidence were
necessary. Perhaps you should have qualified your OPINION with
something like ... "It is my own personal opinion", because that is
all that it is. No matter how many times you repeat your opinion, it
will not become any more or less true than it was in initially. It
should be obvious that repitition alone is not a substitute for a valid
argument. An unsubstantiated assertion does not a fact make. Now,
enough has been said!!!

Written, not said. However, it is enough, since reading this is making
me sleepy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > On still another note, although Ed Gin was more than
> > just a casual cycling acquaintance at one time, I am certainly not
> > saddened by the mentioning of hm being an ex-friend as Tom asserted. I
> > would have it no other way. EX works for me....
>
> Why do so many people report evidence that indicates the contrary? Is
> there a Chicagoland vendetta against Jimmy Mac?

More opinion stated as fact. This is getting to be a bad habit. And
just who are these nebulous "so many" and where is your "evidence" ...
proof I belive you prefer to call it. The burden of proof rests with
the accuser and unsubstantiated assertion does not a fact make. I am
unaware of any vendetta and frankly I couldn't care less and I am
reasonably certain that Ed's other ex-friends feel likewise. The
original thread had nothing to do with Ed Gin and it should have
remained as such.

Oh, why do so many people lie to me? 😉

Perhpas because you are blinded by your affinity with your associates
that you are receptive to whatever is said of me, or perhaps becuase
you are not open-minded and objective, unwilling to hear but only one
side of a story, but what does this have do do with your
unsubstantiated assertion??? Since no names or evidence have been
provided, why should I not assume that you are lying?

Yo JimmyMac - you may repeat things told in confidence on a public
forum, but I do try not to be that much of an anti-social jerk.

Quoted message said:

Regardless, like
I said before, I couldn't care less. In the greater scheme of things
this matters no ... Ed Gin matters not and Ed Gin's mout piece (you)
matter not.

What is a "mout"?

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.