86 yrs old with intermittent claudication

Quoted message said:

Subject: 86 yrs old with intermittent claudication
From: Robin [email hidden]
Date: 10/12/2003 9:44 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

This is in regard to my mother who is not a good candidate for surgery.
Has high blood pressure, atheriosclerosis, CAD. She's in a wheel chair
most of the time, can't walk because of Parkinson like symptoms,
probably some sciatica and arthritis. What would you recommend in the
way of natural treatments, herbs, supplements for the safest yet
quickest relief?

Do a search of Medline with the terms
'intermittent claudication and tocopherol' and you will come up with enough
articles to make a decision.

Here is a site for a protocol.
Type in tocopherol and Dr. Shute.

http://doctoryourself.com

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

In article <[email hidden]>,

(doe) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: 86 yrs old with intermittent claudication
From: Robin [email hidden]
Date: 10/12/2003 9:44 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

This is in regard to my mother who is not a good candidate for surgery.
Has high blood pressure, atheriosclerosis, CAD. She's in a wheel chair
most of the time, can't walk because of Parkinson like symptoms,
probably some sciatica and arthritis. What would you recommend in the
way of natural treatments, herbs, supplements for the safest yet
quickest relief?

Do a search of Medline with the terms
'intermittent claudication and tocopherol' and you will come up with enough
articles to make a decision.

Here is a site for a protocol.
Type in tocopherol and Dr. Shute.

http://doctoryourself.com

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Hi Tom,
Actually, I did find encouraging articles about tocopherol, however,
from what I read, it takes between 4-6 mos to realize full results. At
her age, I'm concerned that she could throw a clot or have a stroke
before that time. Perhaps I should re-phrase my question and ask the
same question but specific to dialating the vessels - that's my real
concern. I see there are medications, as mentioned by hawki, but my mom
is already taking about 12 meds (some of them multiples and several
times a day) and often has adverse reactions so I know its there as an
option, was hoping for something more natural or therapeutic (chelation
therapy?).

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle." Philo of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X WITH 4

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: 86 yrs old with intermittent claudication
From: Robin [email hidden]
Date: 10/12/2003 6:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

(chelation
therapy?).

with the intent of doing what??

I agree she is on enuff meds

actually claudication doesn't usually cause clots or strokes....the pain is the
worst...
hawki

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Hawki63) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: 86 yrs old with intermittent claudication
From: Robin [email hidden]
Date: 10/12/2003 8:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What would you recommend in the
way of natural treatments, herbs, supplements for the safest yet
quickest relief?

Robin...

sorry...but for your 86 year old mom...theree just is NO way to give her
quick
relief....certainly not with herbs or supplements

claudication,,as you may know..results from the vessels in the legs being
incompetent to fully assist the circulation to and from the lower leg....this
is usually the result of long standing atherscelerosis..maybe smoking..

there are some meds that supposedly will help the platelets to become moree
sticky to allow them to pass more easily thru the narrowed vessels...off the
top of my head I can recall Trental is one of them...but not sure how
effective
they would be

Yes, know about the meds. She's already taking many, many meds per day
and easily experiences adverse reactions. I'm looking (dreaming) for
ways to get her OFF some of those meds, and hoping not to add any more
than absolutely necessary.

Quoted message said:

if she is in pain...why not some VERY low dose pain meds..perhaps even
Tylenol
will help,,,without the dangers of falling etc...

Yes, I can do that. she doesn't walk anyway except to transfer from her
wheelchair. I'm more concerned about the atheriosclerosis which is
causing it, and that she may throw a clot or have a stroke.

Quoted message said:

sorry your mom is in need of intervention,,,and you are a good daughter to be
looking after her

Thanks, hawki, but I'm being selfish. I adore her and don't want to
lose her.

Quoted message said:

have you spoken with her doctor??

Oh yes. He's an ok doctor, and I appreciate his open-ness to all my
"helpfulness" when I frequently come to him with results of internet
searches for all the health related problems my mother has had.

Quoted message said:

good luck

Thanks, hawki. I'm touched by your sensitivity.
Robin

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle." Philo of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X WITH 4

see below

Robin said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Hawki63) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: 86 yrs old with intermittent claudication
From: Robin [email hidden]
Date: 10/12/2003 8:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What would you recommend in the
way of natural treatments, herbs, supplements for the safest yet
quickest relief?

Robin...

sorry...but for your 86 year old mom...theree just is NO way to give her
quick
relief....certainly not with herbs or supplements

claudication,,as you may know..results from the vessels in the legs being
incompetent to fully assist the circulation to and from the lower leg....this
is usually the result of long standing atherscelerosis..maybe smoking..

there are some meds that supposedly will help the platelets to become moree
sticky to allow them to pass more easily thru the narrowed vessels...off the
top of my head I can recall Trental is one of them...but not sure how
effective
they would be

Yes, know about the meds. She's already taking many, many meds per day
and easily experiences adverse reactions. I'm looking (dreaming) for
ways to get her OFF some of those meds, and hoping not to add any more
than absolutely necessary.

Quoted message said:

if she is in pain...why not some VERY low dose pain meds..perhaps even
Tylenol
will help,,,without the dangers of falling etc...

Yes, I can do that. she doesn't walk anyway except to transfer from her
wheelchair. I'm more concerned about the atheriosclerosis which is
causing it, and that she may throw a clot or have a stroke.

Quoted message said:

sorry your mom is in need of intervention,,,and you are a good daughter to be
looking after her

Thanks, hawki, but I'm being selfish. I adore her and don't want to
lose her.

Quoted message said:

have you spoken with her doctor??

Oh yes. He's an ok doctor, and I appreciate his open-ness to all my
"helpfulness" when I frequently come to him with results of internet
searches for all the health related problems my mother has had.

Quoted message said:

good luck

Thanks, hawki. I'm touched by your sensitivity.
Robin

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle." Philo of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X WITH 4

Robin...have you ever given her SASSAFRASS tea..it is helpful in her case. Blessings..B-0b1

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: 86 yrs old with intermittent claudication
From: Robin [email hidden]
Date: 10/12/2003 6:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there are some meds that supposedly will help the platelets to become moree
sticky to allow them to pass more

oops...meant to say "more slippery" so thee red cells can pass more easily into
the narrowed vessels.....

Quoted message said:

I'm more concerned about the atheriosclerosis which is
causing it, and that she may throw a clot or have a stroke.

is she on low dose aspirin??

Quoted message said:

I adore her and don't want to
lose her.

that is obvious...good luck Robin
hawki

Make your own decision about blood pressure/atherosclerosis/CVD I've read
there's rapid improvement - can take days to months if it works at all. (Not
sure if it's cheaper buying the vitamins on separate basis - I don't want to
be seen as a henchman for Dr Rath's vitamins)
My blood pressure normalised when I changed my diet and took vitamins.
www.vitamincfoundation.com
http://www.towerlaboratories.com/
www.dr-rath-research.org/
Anth

"Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is in regard to my mother who is not a good candidate for surgery.
Has high blood pressure, atheriosclerosis, CAD. She's in a wheel chair
most of the time, can't walk because of Parkinson like symptoms,
probably some sciatica and arthritis. What would you recommend in the
way of natural treatments, herbs, supplements for the safest yet
quickest relief?

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle." Philo

of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X WITH
4

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/
(See her doctor first)
Anth

Hi Robin
I've read that high dose Vitamin C/Lysine is good for CVD - if it works, she
should feel improvement within days)
If you look on Dr Rath's site or the Vitamin C Foundation you can get the
information.
Anth

"Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(doe) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: 86 yrs old with intermittent claudication
From: Robin [email hidden]
Date: 10/12/2003 9:44 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

This is in regard to my mother who is not a good candidate for surgery.
Has high blood pressure, atheriosclerosis, CAD. She's in a wheel chair
most of the time, can't walk because of Parkinson like symptoms,
probably some sciatica and arthritis. What would you recommend in the
way of natural treatments, herbs, supplements for the safest yet
quickest relief?

Do a search of Medline with the terms
'intermittent claudication and tocopherol' and you will come up with

enough

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

articles to make a decision.

Here is a site for a protocol.
Type in tocopherol and Dr. Shute.

http://doctoryourself.com

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!

http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING

http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi Tom,
Actually, I did find encouraging articles about tocopherol, however,
from what I read, it takes between 4-6 mos to realize full results. At
her age, I'm concerned that she could throw a clot or have a stroke
before that time. Perhaps I should re-phrase my question and ask the
same question but specific to dialating the vessels - that's my real
concern. I see there are medications, as mentioned by hawki, but my mom
is already taking about 12 meds (some of them multiples and several
times a day) and often has adverse reactions so I know its there as an
option, was hoping for something more natural or therapeutic (chelation
therapy?).

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle." Philo

of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X WITH
4

I take 2g in the morning 2g at night to prevent atherosclerosis..
Vitamin C saturates in the blood and peaks at around 3 hours then gradually
falls off.
So for nutrition :-
2g vitamin c 2g L lysine (morning)
2g vitamin c 2g L lysine (tea time)
2g vitamin c 2g L lysine (bedtime)
Anth

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Make your own decision about blood pressure/atherosclerosis/CVD I've read
there's rapid improvement - can take days to months if it works at all.

(Not

Quoted message said:

sure if it's cheaper buying the vitamins on separate basis - I don't want

to

Quoted message said:

be seen as a henchman for Dr Rath's vitamins)
My blood pressure normalised when I changed my diet and took vitamins.
www.vitamincfoundation.com
http://www.towerlaboratories.com/
www.dr-rath-research.org/
Anth

"Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is in regard to my mother who is not a good candidate for surgery.
Has high blood pressure, atheriosclerosis, CAD. She's in a wheel chair
most of the time, can't walk because of Parkinson like symptoms,
probably some sciatica and arthritis. What would you recommend in the
way of natural treatments, herbs, supplements for the safest yet
quickest relief?

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle."

Philo

Quoted message said:

of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X

WITH

Quoted message said:

4

Why would you want the platelets to become more sticky?
That could cause a clot?
Anth

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: 86 yrs old with intermittent claudication
From: Robin [email hidden]
Date: 10/12/2003 8:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What would you recommend in the
way of natural treatments, herbs, supplements for the safest yet
quickest relief?

Robin...

sorry...but for your 86 year old mom...theree just is NO way to give her

quick

Quoted message said:

relief....certainly not with herbs or supplements

claudication,,as you may know..results from the vessels in the legs being
incompetent to fully assist the circulation to and from the lower

leg....this

Quoted message said:

is usually the result of long standing atherscelerosis..maybe smoking..

there are some meds that supposedly will help the platelets to become

moree

Quoted message said:

sticky to allow them to pass more easily thru the narrowed vessels...off

the

Quoted message said:

top of my head I can recall Trental is one of them...but not sure how

effective

Quoted message said:

they would be

if she is in pain...why not some VERY low dose pain meds..perhaps even

Tylenol

Quoted message said:

will help,,,without the dangers of falling etc...

sorry your mom is in need of intervention,,,and you are a good daughter to

be

Quoted message said:

looking after her

have you spoken with her doctor??

good luck

hawki

Here's some interesting tidbits
vitamin c against arthritus http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3041485.stm
vitamin c against stroke
http://www.ivanhoe.com/channels/p_channelstory.cfm?channelid=CHAN-100010&storyid=3720
vitamin c heart disease
http://www.springerlink.com/app/home/contribution.asp?wasp=43wrc22txj4vpnb2qrrq&referrer=parent&backto=issue,4,7;journal,11,34;linkingpublicationresults,id:103683,1
(from vitamin c foundation)
I wouldn't bother with chelation, they probably recovered due to the high
dose vitamin c they give with the chelate.
Anth

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: 86 yrs old with intermittent claudication
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/13/2003 9:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Why would you want the platelets to become more sticky?
That could cause a clot?
Anth

sorry Anth...of course you are correct...and I emailed Robin with the
correction..

of course you want the red cells to be more slippery....to help them squeeze
thru the narrowed vessels..

good pickup...glad you read my posts!!
hawki

In article <[email hidden]>,

Anth said:

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/
(See her doctor first)
Anth

Well thank you so much for the info in your posts. I will look at all
sites and make decisions (and report back if improvement).
Robin

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle." Philo of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X WITH 4

Quoted message said:

My blood pressure normalised when I changed my diet and took vitamins.

Quoted message said:

Anth

What changes did you make in your diet? What was your BP before and
after diet/vitamin changes?
Robin

Quoted message said:

"Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is in regard to my mother who is not a good candidate for surgery.
Has high blood pressure, atheriosclerosis, CAD. She's in a wheel chair
most of the time, can't walk because of Parkinson like symptoms,
probably some sciatica and arthritis. What would you recommend in the
way of natural treatments, herbs, supplements for the safest yet
quickest relief?

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle." Philo

of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X WITH
4

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle." Philo of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X WITH 4

Hi
As I recall :-

(After)
Max systolic 108 mmHg Min diastolic 71 mmHg

Which is a huge difference from the borderline :-

Max systolic 156 mmHg Min diastolic 99 mmHg

All I did was switch my diet to mostly raw vegetable and fruit juices, added
some supplements etc.
My sister who had borderline blood pressure also, changed to drinking 1-2
juices a day also and her blood pressure normalised also.
I drink on average 3-4 fresh raw juices a day

(The doctors mentioned taking her off her blood pressure meds as, she was
doing so well)
Funny, she's been on them for 2 years and her blood pressure has been
borderline all the time - maybe they just started working? 😉
Mind you I'm not loosing weight, infact I would say I'm putting weight on -
probably due to inactivity.

Good luck with your mother.
Anth

"Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My blood pressure normalised when I changed my diet and took vitamins.

Quoted message said:

Anth

What changes did you make in your diet? What was your BP before and
after diet/vitamin changes?
Robin

Quoted message said:

"Robin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is in regard to my mother who is not a good candidate for

surgery.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Has high blood pressure, atheriosclerosis, CAD. She's in a wheel

chair

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

most of the time, can't walk because of Parkinson like symptoms,
probably some sciatica and arthritis. What would you recommend in the
way of natural treatments, herbs, supplements for the safest yet
quickest relief?

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle."

Philo

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X

WITH

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

4

--
"Be kind, because everyone you meet is fighting a desperate battle." Philo

of Alexandria. Do not email if posting a response. TO EMAIL, REPLACE X WITH
4