8 Week Challenge Update

syn said:

Mon: 6 miles in the hills (some very steep, some with stone steps
going all the way up.. tough run)
Wednesday: 9 miles. Long slow run, about 9minutes per mile, but still
trying to beat my time for that route every week...

Forget about trying to beat your time on your slow runs. It's counterproductive.
Throw the watch away.

Do more easy miles. You can run as hard as you like during those speed sessions,
but you'll still be slow unless you put in those miles. And to get in a lot of
miles, you have to run them at an easy pace.

You're not going to get very fast on 18 miles a week no matter how hard you
push yourself. The best thing you could do for your pace right now is to gradually
add more mileage, at least until you're up to 40 or so. You're already doing
more than enough speed work.

Quoted message said:

Saturday: 3.25 miles. FAST. As fast as I can.

Now, for the past few weeks I've only had time for 3 runs a week, but
now I'm willing to add a 4th run to help me achieve this goal, and I
need a little help...

Obviously I need to add a 5 mile run to my schedule, now, and I'm
thinking of making that Saturday's run, but I can't run superfast for 5
miles, so how can I train my speed???
My only option is to add a 4th run, sometime during the week lasting no
more than 20 minutes where I do specific fartlek training? Is this the

You're already placing more than enough emphasis on speed.

A good rule of thumb is,
less than 40 miles a week: 1 speed workout a week
more than 40 miles a week: 2 speed workouts a week

Farlek counts as speed work. Hill work such as your hilly 6 mile run counts as
speed work. Tempo runs count as speed work. Intervals count as speed work. Time
trials count as speed work. You are doing two workouts on 18 miles a week. Those
workouts are largely a waste of effort because you aren't putting in the miles
to run fast times.

You need to worry less about trying to run fast in your workouts, and boost
your mileage, if you want to get fast.

Quoted message said:

best course of action for me now at this point? What's the best day to
make this, so that my body can fully recover between sessions? Any

The best way to get adequate recovery is to do some easy running, instead of
doing speed work in every or almost every session.

Quoted message said:

specifc warmups/cooldowns I should do here, or just stick to my usual
10-15 minutes of stretches before and after?

If you got rid of those stretches, you could get in another 2-3 miles instead.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Thanks for your reply, and what you were saying sounded sensible
until...

"If you got rid of those stretches, you could get in another 2-3 miles
instead. "

What??? Skip the stretches? Last time I did that I ended up having to
get an xray to find out why I couldn't walk properly.

syn said:

What??? Skip the stretches? Last time I did that I ended up having to
get an xray to find out why I couldn't walk properly.

Stretching causes more injurys than it prevents, BY FAR! Walk or slow
jog a few miles instead.

syn said:

Thanks for your reply, and what you were saying sounded sensible
until...

"If you got rid of those stretches, you could get in another 2-3 miles
instead. "

What??? Skip the stretches?

I know it sounds like heresy. But this is only because the whole stretching
thing has become such a well established dogma. The scientific evidence
however, does not support it.

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2000/08_00/shrier.htm

"New evidence suggests that stretching immediately before exercise does not
prevent overuse or acute injuries"

Quoted message said:

Last time I did that I ended up having to
get an xray to find out why I couldn't walk properly.

There are a lot of things that could have caused your injury. The most likely
one in my opinion is that you do a lot of speed work without any kind of base.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

syn said:

However, after the initial bit of success I had in Week 1&2 I'm finding
that 3.25 mile course to be tougher and tougher, and I might need a
little help to reach that 5 mile goal in 4 weeks time.

Read up on base training and its long-term benefits for increasing speed.

Quoted message said:

Here's my current training schedule:

Mon: 6 miles in the hills (some very steep, some with stone steps
going all the way up.. tough run)
Wednesday: 9 miles. Long slow run, about 9minutes per mile, but still
trying to beat my time for that route every week...
Saturday: 3.25 miles. FAST. As fast as I can.

Now, for the past few weeks I've only had time for 3 runs a week, but
now I'm willing to add a 4th run to help me achieve this goal, and I
need a little help...

Obviously I need to add a 5 mile run to my schedule, now, and I'm
thinking of making that Saturday's run, but I can't run superfast for 5
miles, so how can I train my speed???

My only option is to add a 4th run, sometime during the week lasting no
more than 20 minutes where I do specific fartlek training?

Why not make Sat run a 5-mi fartlek? Just alternate hard and easy -
*not* 3.25 mi hard followed by 1.75 mi easy. That way you're only adding
1.75 mi to your week. Keep in mind that it usually takes a couple weeks
for benefits to be seen, so by testing yourself each week, you're
wasting a workout that could be making you better.

Keep in mind that you've made some drastic changes to your running in
the last month or so - going from 2 9-mi easy runs to 1 9-mi easy run
and 2 harder runs. The idea of training is to build and adapt, not to go
full throttle into injury mode.

Is this the

Quoted message said:

best course of action for me now at this point? What's the best day to
make this, so that my body can fully recover between sessions? Any
specifc warmups/cooldowns I should do here, or just stick to my usual
10-15 minutes of stretches before and after?

Warmup/cooldown are far more important than stretches. You should be
warmed up before stretching and just do light stretching, if any, before
running. Yes, there's lots of studies that show no benefits, but there's
lots of anecdotal evidence (my own included) using different protocols
from most studies that suggest that some light stretching after warming
up but before running may be helpful. Note the emphasis on "warm up
first" and "light" stretching - enough to get the kinks out more
effectively than warmups that most runners are likely to do.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

syn said:

What??? Skip the stretches?

Not those after the session though, just the before ones.

"steve common" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

syn said:

What??? Skip the stretches?

Not those after the session though, just the before ones.

Yes and no. If you're stretching cold muscles before your run then skip
them. Ideally some walking or very slow jogging will loosen them up,
stretch the warmed up muscles and then go run and of course stretch when
done.

-DougF