8 to 9 gear cluster upgrade

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by gescom
If I bought a bike with an 8 gear cluster would I have any problems changing to a 9 gear?

For example the base model Specialized Sequioa has an eight gear cluster while the higher spec bikes get 9. This seems a standard practice for alot of bike companies.

Would there be any difference in the width of the frames rear dropouts?

Dropouts are the same.On shimano stuff,8 and 9 speed cassettes interchange on the same freehub.You would need rear shifter,cassette and chain. You want 9 speeds, buy it that way.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by gescom
If I bought a bike with an 8 gear cluster would I have any problems changing to a 9 gear?

For example the base model Specialized Sequioa has an eight gear cluster while the higher spec bikes get 9. This seems a standard practice for alot of bike companies.

Would there be any difference in the width of the frames rear dropouts?

No difference in the width of the frame.
The shifter and cassette determine the 8 or 9 speed.
You would need to change the shifter, cassette, and chain.
The spacing and thickness of some chainwheels may also be optimized for 8 or 9 speed.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by daveornee
No difference in the width of the frame.
The shifter and cassette determine the 8 or 9 speed.
You would need to change the shifter, cassette, and chain.
The spacing and thickness of some chainwheels may also be optimized for 8 or 9 speed.

There is no functional difference between 8 and 9 speed chairnings/chainwheels. Even 10 speed works on 8 speed cranksets. Manufacturers BS to the contrary.

Some 8-speed chainrings are specific for 8-speed chains, and should not be used with 9-speed chains. I agree that if you want nine-speed, then that is what you should get. Tiagra isn't too much more expensive than Sora, and I hear that it is a little more reliable too.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by scituatejohn
Some 8-speed chainrings are specific for 8-speed chains, and should not be used with 9-speed chains.

That is just total hooey.

How about 9sp rear cassette and chain with a 10sp crank & rings? Too much chain width for the 10, or will it work reliably?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
That is just total hooey.

"The 9-speed chain is ~0.5 mm narrower and so is the front derailleur cage.
Using a 9-speed chain with 8-speed front derailleur and crankset will result in sluggish shifting and the adjustment is more critical. You may have to continue to hold the shift lever in an "overshift" until the shift is complete. In the worst case, some 8-speed chain rings have shown a tendency for "chain jamming" during downshifts with a 9 speed chain.
The 8-speed chain is too wide for 9 speed front derailleur; the chain will rub during cross shifting (large/mid ring/large cog).
9-speed chain should be no problem for an 8-speed rear drivetrain.

The 9-speed chainring release teeth and pick-up teeth are reprofiled for narrower chains, therefore you can not use an 8-speed chain, and the pick-up teeth will make noise against the chain during minor cross chaining.

Furthermore, success with one bike may not guarantee the same result with another bike due to the different dimensions between frames and production tolerances of components. It might be OK, but Shimano® can't guarantee it. Finally, although you may be partially upgrading to 9-speed you may downgrade the shifting performance. "

From Shimano's website at URL:
http://bike.shimano.com/services/faq.asp
If you choose to mix 8 and 9 speed you can believe whoever you wish.
I have found that Shimano's answers are not "just total hooey".
It may work OK, but shifting performance will be sub-optimal and adjustments critical.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by DesertRider
How about 9sp rear cassette and chain with a 10sp crank & rings? Too much chain width for the 10, or will it work reliably?

It will work OK, but it won't shift as crisp as the full 10 speed group.

8 speed chainrings will run with 9 speed chains and cassettes. I've seen several people doing it succesfully. You can get it to shift acceptably well BUT shifting will never be anything considered truly smooth or completely reliable. It will usually make some ugly noises and the narrower chain seems to wear down the rings really fast. Its better to save yourself the trouble and go 9 speed all way.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by daveornee

From Shimano's website at URL:
http://bike.shimano.com/services/faq.asp
If you choose to mix 8 and 9 speed you can believe whoever you wish.
I have found that Shimano's answers are not "just total hooey".
It may work OK, but shifting performance will be sub-optimal and adjustments critical.

Having tried it alot,rather than just quoting 'what Shimano says', I stand with alot of hooey. I quit quoting Shimano some time ago, and Campy is just a bad. Both would like everyone to buy all new stuff every time they make a change,no matter how minor. You will note that the 'upgrade' kit shimano sells from 8 to 9 speed includes only shifters,chain cassette and RD.You don't even need the RD unless your old 8 speed stuff was DA. Peter called it right on the other forum.

Right now I've got all Campy 9sp Racing Triple and want to upgrade to a new Record Triple crank, which is 10sp, should it work; (good, (fair, (crappy?

Saw a Shimano 600 rear mech being used with 9 speed shifters ( ultegra ) and cassette and it worked fine .
Also a 600 on a mountain bike ( again 9 speed ) , both cycle dealers with lots of other options available so it can´t have worked that badly.
Tried to change an mtb setup ( LX ) from 11-28 to 11-21 ( 8 speed ) and we just can´t get it to shift right , go figure .

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by el Inglés

Tried to change an mtb setup ( LX ) from 11-28 to 11-21 ( 8 speed ) and we just can´t get it to shift right , go figure .

an LX derailer travels a different arc relative to the cogs, in order to clear the larger MTB cogs. Trying to use it with a 21 results in the upper pulley being too far from the 21 when it has reach that point in it's travel. Use a shimano index capable road derailer other that a pre 9 speed DA.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
You will note that the 'upgrade' kit shimano sells from 8 to 9 speed includes only shifters,chain cassette and RD.You don't even need the RD unless your old 8 speed stuff was DA. Peter called it right on the other forum.

Please send the URL where Shimano "sells upgrade kit from 8 to 9 speed inludes only the shifters, chain, cassette and RD."

Please tell me where I can find "Peter called it right on the other forum." A thread name, date, and forum title would be useful.

Yes, I quoted what Shimano says. However, I also expressed my opinion based on my experience.

Didn't answer my question.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by DesertRider
How about 9sp rear cassette and chain with a 10sp crank & rings? Too much chain width for the 10, or will it work reliably?

Campy says:
"Is the 10s crankset compatible with the 9s drivetrain?

No, because the chainrings are too close to each other, and have a different machining."

at URL:
http://www.campagnolo.com/qea_search.php?gid=1&cid=7&key=comp

I tried it but the 9 speed chain didn't shift well under load.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by daveornee
Campy says:
"Is the 10s crankset compatible with the 9s drivetrain?

No, because the chainrings are too close to each other, and have a different machining."

at URL:
http://www.campagnolo.com/qea_search.php?gid=1&cid=7&key=comp

I tried it but the 9 speed chain didn't shift well under load.

I could bolt replacement 9sp rings to the crankarms right? Same pattern? Mostly after the near flawless finish on the arms and a little weight savings.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by DesertRider
I could bolt replacement 9sp rings to the crankarms right? Same pattern? Mostly after the near flawless finish on the arms and a little weight savings.

Yes, the bolt circle is the same.
You will need to check that the ring spacing stays the same as it was on the origninal 9 speed.
If you need different spacers I suggest you look at the Wheels Manufacturing ones at URL:
http://wheelsmfg.com/p_chainringspacers.html

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by daveornee
Campy says:
"Is the 10s crankset compatible with the 9s drivetrain?

No, because the chainrings are too close to each other, and have a different machining."

at URL:
http://www.campagnolo.com/qea_search.php?gid=1&cid=7&key=comp

I tried it but the 9 speed chain didn't shift well under load.

The difference in ring spacing between 9 and 10 is like a whole .4mm.