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60% by 2010

Started by Simon Mason · · Last activity · 27 posts · 960 views

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UK and Europe
Published
1 May 2004
Last activity
8 May 2004
Original author
Simon Mason
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27
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  1. Just spotted this in The Times from last year - I didn't
    know that 60% of our city's streets were going to be 20 mph
    in 6 years - who'd want to drive a car then? I reckon the
    council are after Cambridge's number 1 slot in time for the
    2011 census ;-)

    Traffic speed limits of 20mph have cut dramatically the
    number of road casualties in Hull. The city council has
    imposed the limit on 26 per cent of its roads, and has a
    target of 60 per cent by 2010. The reason, it says, is that
    it works: since the first scheme in 1994, the number of
    road casualties has fallen by 14.3 per cent, against a 1.5
    per cent rise in the wider region. Among children, there
    has been a 64 per cent fall in road deaths or serious
    injuries. There are now 120 zones covering 500 streets, and
    they cost an average of £39,000 to implement. In most cases
    "speed cushions" are used, but one, on a busy shopping
    street, is a pedestrian crossing whose light remains red
    for cars until after it detects that one has stopped. The
    newest 20mph zone is aimed at protecting Hull's cyclists,
    whose work trips are six times the national average

    --
    Simon M.

  2. "Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Just spotted this in The Times from last year - I didn't
    know that 60% of our city's streets were going to be 20
    mph in 6 years - who'd want to


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    a car then?

    ...and ride a bike? 20mph easily exceeded so watch out -
    cyclists will/must be held accountable as well.

    DG.

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    ...and ride a bike? 20mph easily exceeded so watch out -
    cyclists will/must be held accountable as well.

    Except that as I understood it, cycles are not subject to
    the speed limits. Cycling without due care and attention not
    withstanding. In addition to which, most cyclists are highly
    aware of their surroundings and potential hazards as they
    represent a danger-to-self.

    Jon

  4. In "]news:[email hidden],
    DG <[email hidden]> typed:

    Quoted message said:

    "Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Just spotted this in The Times from last year - I didn't
    know that 60% of our city's streets were going to be 20
    mph in 6 years - who'd want to drive a car then?

    ...and ride a bike? 20mph easily exceeded so watch out -
    cyclists will/must be held accountable as well.


    Yes, except that 20mph isn't that easily exceeded on the
    flat, and there's very few people for whom it's effortless,
    and there's no speed limit for bikes. Although of course the
    cyclist is legally responsible for being in control of their
    bike at a safe speed.

    A

  5. "Jon Senior" <jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    ...and ride a bike? 20mph easily exceeded so watch out -
    cyclists


    will/must

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be held accountable as well.

    Except that as I understood it, cycles are not subject to
    the speed limits. Cycling without due care and attention
    not withstanding. In addition to which, most cyclists are
    highly aware of their surroundings and potential hazards
    as they represent a danger-to-self.

    Jon

    I know that 'speeding' is not an offence in the
    conventionally understood manner i.e. no offence is
    committed per se by exceeding the speed limit, but how do
    you think it will appear when you overtake the occasional
    car that actually adheres to the limit? Believe me, there
    are many, many cyclists who will regard such behaviour as
    their 'right'.

    Apart from the driver being [censored] at such behaviour,
    I think a police officer will regard it as careless or
    even reckless.

    DG

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    I know that 'speeding' is not an offence in the
    conventionally understood manner i.e. no offence is
    committed per se by exceeding the speed limit, but how do
    you think it will appear when you overtake the occasional
    car that actually adheres to the limit? Believe me, there
    are many, many cyclists who will regard such behaviour as
    their 'right'.

    I think that it will appear that you are on a superior form
    of transport for the road conditions. ;-)

    Quoted message said:

    Apart from the driver being [censored] at such behaviour,
    I think a police officer will regard it as careless or
    even reckless.

    I would hope not (Although experience tends toward a lot of
    plods not really understanding bikes very well)! Given that
    a cyclist may be more aware of their surroundings and that a
    bike travelling at 20mph can probably stop in a shorter
    distance than a car travelling at the same speed, I think to
    regard that behaviour as careless or reckless simply on the
    basis of speed, would show a lack of understanding.

    The [censored] driver is the greater problem, since they may
    thus develop a disrespect for either the limits, or cyclists
    (Or both!).

    Jon

  7. On Sat, 1 May 2004 12:10:23 +0100, "Ambrose Nankivell"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, except that 20mph isn't that easily exceeded on the
    flat, and there's very few people for whom it's effortless,

    Speak for yourself ;-)

    --
    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
    posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    Washington University

  8. Just zis Guy, you know? [email hidden] opined
    the following...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 1 May 2004 12:10:23 +0100, "Ambrose Nankivell"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, except that 20mph isn't that easily exceeded on the
    flat, and there's very few people for whom it's
    effortless,

    Speak for yourself ;-)

    But we all know that joining the Dark Side gives an unfair
    advantage.

    That said, I can cruise at 20mph on the fixer and exceed
    30mph on the flat on the Giant.

    Jon

  9. Ambrose Nankivell said:

    Yes, except that 20mph isn't that easily exceeded on
    the flat,

    Oh come on !

    30mph is a struggle, especially in commuting garb, but 20 is
    no big deal.

    --
    Smert' spamionam

  10. On Sat, 1 May 2004 13:37:15 +0100, Jon Senior
    <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Yes, except that 20mph isn't that easily exceeded on the
    flat, and there's very few people for whom it's
    effortless,


    Speak for yourself ;-)


    But we all know that joining the Dark Side gives an unfair
    advantage.

    My 'bent is bent and has been for some time; I was referring
    to my 20-year-old tourer wth mudguards and hub dynamo :-)

    Quoted message said:

    That said, I can cruise at 20mph on the fixer and exceed
    30mph on the flat on the Giant.

    I cruise at around 22mph on the tourer (in still air) but
    can't do 30 on the flat except in a paceline.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
    posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    Washington University

  11. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 1 May 2004 12:10:23 +0100, "Ambrose Nankivell"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, except that 20mph isn't that easily exceeded on the
    flat, and


    there's

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    very few people for whom it's effortless,

    Speak for yourself ;-)

    You took the words out of my mouth.....

    E

  12. "Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:<[email hidden]>... snipped

    Quoted message said:

    . In most cases "speed cushions" are used, but one, on a
    busy shopping street, is a pedestrian crossing whose
    light remains red for cars until after it detects that
    one has stopped.

    A novel idea having the default setting favouring
    pedestrians. I would think it would work well at slowing the
    boy racers down late at night as well having to halt at
    every pelican crossing. Iain C

  13. On Sat, 1 May 2004 21:50:15 +0100, "Doki" <[email hidden]>

    wrote in message : said:

    A car stops quicker than a motorbike. I expect a pushbike
    can't brake as fast as a motorbike 🙂.

    Mine stops pretty sharply, and will be even better with the
    Hope discs. But of course I am not at risk of going over
    the bars...

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  14. In "]news:[email hidden],
    Frobnitz <eddie_d@@@blueyonder.ocbackwards.uk> typed:

    Quoted message said:

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]>
    wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 1 May 2004 12:10:23 +0100, "Ambrose Nankivell"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, except that 20mph isn't that easily exceeded on the
    flat, and there's very few people for whom it's
    effortless,

    Speak for yourself ;-)

    You took the words out of my mouth.....


    Look, none of you lot are average.

    And anyway, I've only just fitted a computer to my bike
    again after a year without, so I can't confidently say what
    speed I average, since I haven't done any steady riding
    since. I've found that since lowering the gearing, I spin
    out at about 35km/h, which doesn't bother me, though. Thing
    is, cyclists would be less put out at being restricted to
    20mph on suburban roads than motorists would. Speaking from
    experience, when I am going over 20mph in the 20 zone I live
    in, there's almost always a car that catches up with me.
    Can't overtake easily cause of all the parked cars, though.

    A

  15. In "]news:[email hidden],
    Doki <[email hidden]> typed:

    Quoted message said:
    Jon Senior said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    I know that 'speeding' is not an offence in the
    conventionally understood manner i.e. no offence is
    committed per se by exceeding the speed limit, but how
    do you think it will appear when you overtake the
    occasional car that actually adheres to the limit?
    Believe me, there are many, many cyclists who will
    regard such behaviour as their 'right'.

    I think that it will appear that you are on a superior
    form of transport for the road conditions. ;-)

    Quoted message said:

    Apart from the driver being [censored] at such
    behaviour, I think a police officer will regard it as
    careless or even reckless.

    I would hope not (Although experience tends toward a lot
    of plods not really understanding bikes very well)! Given
    that a cyclist may be more aware of their surroundings
    and that a bike travelling at 20mph can probably stop in
    a shorter distance than a car travelling at the same
    speed, I think to regard that behaviour as careless or
    reckless simply on the basis of speed, would show a lack
    of understanding.

    A car stops quicker than a motorbike. I expect a pushbike
    can't brake as fast as a motorbike 🙂.

    Reaction time is significantly quicker on a bike, as it's
    controlled by the hands, not the feet (it takes non-
    negligible time for the nerve impulses to reach the feet),
    and it's less far to pull the brake pedal.

    I can only remember seeing a car do an emergency stop once
    or twice in my life, though, as compared to me stopping with
    the rear wheel lifted at least half the time (I know, it's a
    bad habit.) Normally the bike won't hit, and if it does it
    won't be too hard. Not a good idea to risk it, though. And
    normally the bike can swerve.

    A

  16. Just zis Guy, you know? [email hidden] opined
    the following...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 1 May 2004 21:50:15 +0100, "Doki"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    A car stops quicker than a motorbike. I expect a pushbike
    can't brake as fast as a motorbike 🙂.

    Mine stops pretty sharply, and will be even better with
    the Hope discs. But of course I am not at risk of going
    over the bars...

    Despite riding a really badly set up bike for some time,
    I've never managed to pitch over the handlebars. I'm not
    sure how fast I can stop the Giant, but I've done a two
    wheel skid on it before and with dual pivots I can easily
    lift the rear wheel.

    Even a modern motorbike is relatively heavy. I guess it just
    comes down to traction.

    Jon

  17. Jon Senior said:


    Despite riding a really badly set up bike for some time,
    I've never managed to pitch over the handlebars. I'm not
    sure how fast I can stop the Giant, but I've done a two
    wheel skid on it before and with dual pivots I can easily
    lift the rear wheel.

    Jobst Brant reckons going over the bars is more a
    consequence of failing to brace your body against the bars
    to stop it going forward than an unavoidable consequence of
    hard braking.

    Tony

  18. Tony Raven [email hidden] opined the following...

    Quoted message said:
    Jon Senior said:


    Despite riding a really badly set up bike for some time,
    I've never managed to pitch over the handlebars. I'm not
    sure how fast I can stop the Giant, but I've done a two
    wheel skid on it before and with dual pivots I can
    easily lift the rear wheel.

    Jobst Brant reckons going over the bars is more a
    consequence of failing to brace your body against the bars
    to stop it going forward than an unavoidable consequence
    of hard braking.

    And the day I learnt this, was the point at which my
    dominant brake became the front one.

    Jon

  19. "iarocu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote
    in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    snipped

    Quoted message said:

    . In most cases "speed cushions" are used, but one, on a
    busy shopping street, is a pedestrian crossing whose
    light remains red for cars until after it detects that
    one has stopped.

    A novel idea having the default setting favouring
    pedestrians. I would think it would work well at slowing
    the boy racers down late at night as well having to halt
    at every pelican crossing. Iain C

    Exactly. There used to be late night boy racers on the
    town centre inner ring road of my town. Cured by
    defaulting the lights on the main road to red instead of
    green. Nuisance on a bike though, when there's nothing in
    sight in any direction. Nobody knows if you go through a
    red light though, except the wardens? that watch the CCTV
    cameras. Paul.

  20. in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

    (') said:
    Jon Senior said:


    Despite riding a really badly set up bike for some time,
    I've never managed to pitch over the handlebars. I'm not
    sure how fast I can stop the Giant, but I've done a two
    wheel skid on it before and with dual pivots I can easily
    lift the rear wheel.

    Jobst Brant reckons going over the bars is more a
    consequence of failing to brace your body against the bars
    to stop it going forward than an unavoidable consequence
    of hard braking.

    While it would cause me physical pain to agree with the good
    Mr Brant on anything, I've never managed to go over the bars
    on any bike under and circumstances, and that includes a lot
    of idiotically steep off road downhills. Touch wood, fingers
    crossed - I don't believe I would enjoy
    it.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
    jasmine.org.uk~simon

    Do not sail on uphill water.
    - Bi
    ll
    Le
    e

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