3rd party insurance

On 23/08/2006 18:54, Duncan Gray said,

Quoted message said:

Did anyone catch the Channel 4 tv news bulletin at midday?

There was a lawyer on who apparently does work for the CTC recommending
cyclists take out 3rd party cover for their protection.

<Snip>

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have public liability insurance, or is it available through
membership of any organisation?

The answer to that is in your second paragraph. The CTC gives Third
Party Insurance to all members. Therefore all CTC members here have
insurance.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Duncan Gray said:

Did anyone catch the Channel 4 tv news bulletin at midday?

There was a lawyer on who apparently does work for the CTC
recommending cyclists take out 3rd party cover for their protection.

.........

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have public liability insurance, or is it available
through membership of any organisation? My membership of the
Mountaineering Council of Scotland gives me cover for mountain
activities.

CTC membership provides such cover as part of the membership deal, as does
membership of a few other cycling clubs.

As with mountaineering 3rd party cover, the actual insurance costs are
trivial, the cost is nearly all in the administration of setting up a
policy.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

"Duncan Gray" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Did anyone catch the Channel 4 tv news bulletin at midday?

Quoted message said:

There was a lawyer on who apparently does work for the CTC recommending
cyclists take out 3rd party cover for their protection.

Quoted message said:

The reasons were
1) that a cyclist could cause an accident causing serious injury and face a
huge claim against them. (it was pointed out that in the vast majority of
cases the cyclist in the wronged party)
and
2) not having insurance leads to cyclists not pursuing claims they should,
because of the fear of being counter-claimed.

Quoted message said:

The interviewer dutifully tossed up the suggestion that insurance for
cyclists should be compulsory, which the lady duly slapped down, pointing
out that cases where there could be a claim against a cyclist were a tiny
minority, and that such a law would be counter productive as it would
discourage cycling and its health giving benefits.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have public liability insurance, or is it available
through
membership of any organisation? My membership of the Mountaineering Council
of Scotland gives me cover for mountain activities.

I belong to the CTC and LCC (London Cycling Campaign). They both provide
3rd party insurance as part of membership.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

"Paul Boyd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 23/08/2006 18:54, Duncan Gray said,

Quoted message said:

Did anyone catch the Channel 4 tv news bulletin at midday?

There was a lawyer on who apparently does work for the CTC recommending
cyclists take out 3rd party cover for their protection.

<Snip>

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have public liability insurance, or is it available
through membership of any organisation?

The answer to that is in your second paragraph. The CTC gives Third Party
Insurance to all members. Therefore all CTC members here have insurance.

Ah, thanks. Should have followed it through further.
The news item wasn't overtly a push for new members....

In message <[email hidden]>

Paul Boyd said:

On 23/08/2006 18:54, Duncan Gray said,

Quoted message said:

Did anyone catch the Channel 4 tv news bulletin at midday?

There was a lawyer on who apparently does work for the CTC recommending
cyclists take out 3rd party cover for their protection.

<Snip>

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have public liability insurance, or is it available through
membership of any organisation?

The answer to that is in your second paragraph. The CTC gives Third
Party Insurance to all members. Therefore all CTC members here have
insurance.

Yes as well as CTC, it's worth noting that many home comprehensive
insurance policies will include 3rd party liability that may include
cycling, also many vacation and travel insurance policies will also
cover cycling. For example I have annual insurance for mountaineering
and ski-mountaineering which also covers most other leisure and sporting
activities with a few listed exceptions (e.g. flying as a pilot, cave
diving). As always read the small print to see what is and isn't
included.

Cheers,

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

"Duncan Gray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have public liability insurance, or is it available
through membership of any organisation? My membership of the
Mountaineering Council of Scotland gives me cover for mountain activities.

Yes.

If you join the CTC you get such insurance as a benefit of being a member.
Similarly if you have British Cycling membership.

Husband, son & self are CTC members.

Cheers, helen s

CTC also supported me with free legal assistance in pursuing my claim
against the driver ( blind & deaf - due to howling kids and nagging wife)
who gave me 3 broken ribs.
Totally no cost to me with cycling aware solicitors.

The result is the purchase of a new ICE Trice Q NT for delivery end of
September.

To be honest I am not sure if the end result was worth all the pain -- but
since the pain is over --- I am happy to be taking on the new trike. If I
just banked it, it would be whittled away slowly to no effect.

So I am happy with CTC provision of legal assistance, and their 3rd party
insurance -- but as CTC know, I am distinctly not a "yes man". There are, I
believe, many areas where CTC's policies are definitely anti "Touring" and I
am above all a touring cyclist.

but I reckon that a specialist insurance cover is a good idea

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Duncan Gray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have public liability insurance, or is it available
through membership of any organisation? My membership of the
Mountaineering Council of Scotland gives me cover for mountain
activities.

Yes.

If you join the CTC you get such insurance as a benefit of being a member.
Similarly if you have British Cycling membership.

Husband, son & self are CTC members.

Cheers, helen s

in message <[email hidden]>, Duncan Gray

(') said:

Did anyone catch the Channel 4 tv news bulletin at midday?

There was a lawyer on who apparently does work for the CTC recommending
cyclists take out 3rd party cover for their protection.

The reasons were
1) that a cyclist could cause an accident causing serious injury and
face a huge claim against them. (it was pointed out that in the vast
majority of cases the cyclist in the wronged party)
and
2) not having insurance leads to cyclists not pursuing claims they
should, because of the fear of being counter-claimed.

The interviewer dutifully tossed up the suggestion that insurance for
cyclists should be compulsory, which the lady duly slapped down,
pointing out that cases where there could be a claim against a cyclist
were a tiny minority, and that such a law would be counter productive
as it would discourage cycling and its health giving benefits.

Does anyone here have public liability insurance, or is it available
through membership of any organisation? My membership of the
Mountaineering Council of Scotland gives me cover for mountain
activities.

If you're a member of British Cycling, or the Scottish Cyclists' Union,
or the Cyclists Touring Club, or I /think/ any club affiliated to
British Cycling, you're covered. I'm a member of British Cycling.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If Python is executable pseudocode,
;; then Perl is executable line noise
-- seen on Slashdot.

wafflycat said:

"Duncan Gray" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have public liability insurance, or is it available
through membership of any organisation? My membership of the
Mountaineering Council of Scotland gives me cover for mountain activities.

Yes.

If you join the CTC you get such insurance as a benefit of being a member.
Similarly if you have British Cycling membership.

IIRC you only get third party cover at silver or gold BC membership,
not bronze.
I read the blurb when deciding which if any to get for Rachel (as it
was free she got silver so is fully insured for travel on the road.)

...d

Pinky said:

The result is the purchase of a new ICE Trice Q NT for delivery end of
September.

To be honest I am not sure if the end result was worth all the pain -- but
since the pain is over --- I am happy to be taking on the new trike. If I
just banked it, it would be whittled away slowly to no effect.

It wasn't really choice that you made though, was it? Given that the
pain would have been inflicted on you anyway, I'm sure the Trice looks
like great value. I wish you well to use it.

--
Dave...

Simon Brooke said:

If you're a member of British Cycling, or the Scottish Cyclists' Union,
or the Cyclists Touring Club, or I /think/ any club affiliated to
British Cycling, you're covered. I'm a member of British Cycling.

Having queried BC's strong recommendation that helmets be worn by *all*
cyclists (the word "essential" for new cyclists, and phrase "don't even
think of cycling without one" once graced their web-site, their
communications officer Phil Ingham suggested I join, with one of the
benefits being the insurance. It was, he said "just as essential as a
helmet". Well, quite... But being a CTC member I'm insured anyway so
declined his offer to part with money so they could mindlessly promote
helmets with some of it.

With the launch of their "everyday cycling" site I queried the degree to
which "everyday cycling" should be portrayed as apparently requiring
lycra and helmets all the time, and got a message back that "We have
taken the range of empirical evidence into account and made a decision"
to portray everyone pictured in a helmet as BC reccommneds helmets to
all. I asked what that evidence /was/, and got passed back to... Phil
Ingham again, who wouldn't answer but if I disagreed I should join BC
and work for change within. Again, not wishing to fund needless helmet
promotion I declined the offer, but asked again what the evidence
underpinning the decision was. No answer.
So since the "communications manager" of BC won't communicate with me a
s a non-member, perhaps those of you that are members might like to ask
Mr. Ingham the same question: what is the evidence they have considered
for their stance that *all* cyclists are strongly recommended to wear
helmets?

I'd like to know what it is, and as a corollary why it's apparently in
the interests of non-member UK cyclists and cycling in the UK in general
to keep that information secret.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Pinky said:

The result is the purchase of a new ICE Trice Q NT for delivery end of
September.

I remember you saying you were going to try one out.. Glad you have got
it.

And you should still be able to tow the BoB Yak..

...d

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pinky said:

The result is the purchase of a new ICE Trice Q NT for delivery end of
September.

I remember you saying you were going to try one out.. Glad you have got
it.

And you should still be able to tow the BoB Yak..

..d

David,
Yes I am quietly chuffed and can't wait to get my fingers on it ( feet?). I
feel a bit daunted by having to assemble it myself but it will be a steep
learning curve useful to me on my long tours. ICE don't like the stresses
put on the rear wheel by the BOB Yak when cornering -- since the trike
doesn't lean in and the effect of centrifugal forces of a heavy trailer. I
have actually just sold my Yak ( sad to see it go) and I am now looking at
two wheeled Carry freedom, Bluebird and Burley trailers as a replacement
for next years tour. I shall probably keep my VP2 as a local shopping and
run around.
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>
Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

So since the "communications manager" of BC won't communicate with me a
s a non-member, perhaps those of you that are members might like to ask
Mr. Ingham the same question: what is the evidence they have considered
for their stance that *all* cyclists are strongly recommended to wear
helmets?

I'd like to know what it is, and as a corollary why it's apparently in
the interests of non-member UK cyclists and cycling in the UK in general
to keep that information secret.

Pete.

Hi Pete,

Yes I saw your letter in the CTC magazine where you referred to having
gone to the medical library and reading the evidence for yourself.

I quite agree with the assessment. The available medical evidence does
not suggest that there is a significant increase in serious risks
associated with cycling without a cycle helmet.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark, C.U. Department of Pathology
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "a mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"<http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>

Peter Clinch said:

With the launch of their "everyday cycling" site I queried the degree to
which "everyday cycling" should be portrayed as apparently requiring
lycra and helmets all the time, and got a message back that "We have
taken the range of empirical evidence into account and made a decision" ...

Bet you a tenner they haven't. Those are simply weasel words to fob you
off. That is why they are unable to give you any specifics. But of
course you knew that already.

--
Dave...

dkahn400 said:

Bet you a tenner they haven't. Those are simply weasel words to fob you
off. That is why they are unable to give you any specifics. But of
course you knew that already.

Indeed. I did wonder why you limited yourself to a tenner... ;-/

But some more pressure might just set some Clue Bells ringing, and if
it's from existing BC members then the excuse that time shouldn't be
spent on non-members goes out the window, and the more excuses that go
out of the window the more chance of someone having to stop and *think*
for a change.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

If you're a member of British Cycling, or the Scottish Cyclists'
Union, or the Cyclists Touring Club, or I /think/ any club affiliated
to British Cycling, you're covered. I'm a member of British Cycling.

So since the "communications manager" of BC won't communicate with me a
s a non-member, perhaps those of you that are members might like to ask
Mr. Ingham the same question: what is the evidence they have considered
for their stance that *all* cyclists are strongly recommended to wear
helmets?

Mail me his email address, and I will take him up on it.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; my other religion is Emacs

Simon Brooke said:

Mail me his email address, and I will take him up on it.

You (should) have mail...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Duncan Gray said:

Did anyone catch the Channel 4 tv news bulletin at midday?

There was a lawyer on who apparently does work for the CTC recommending
cyclists take out 3rd party cover for their protection.

The reasons were
1) that a cyclist could cause an accident causing serious injury and face a
huge claim against them. (it was pointed out that in the vast majority of
cases the cyclist in the wronged party)
and
2) not having insurance leads to cyclists not pursuing claims they should,
because of the fear of being counter-claimed.

The interviewer dutifully tossed up the suggestion that insurance for
cyclists should be compulsory, which the lady duly slapped down, pointing
out that cases where there could be a claim against a cyclist were a tiny
minority, and that such a law would be counter productive as it would
discourage cycling and its health giving benefits.

Does anyone here have public liability insurance, or is it available through
membership of any organisation? My membership of the Mountaineering Council
of Scotland gives me cover for mountain activities.

I think the number of cyclist with public liability insurance is vastly
underestimated, and you certainly don't need to join the CTC to obtain it.
Most 'householders' have insurance with a 'public liability'extension
that would normally give almost unlimited sums for such things. It will
normally include family members as long as permanent address is at home
(ie children are covered when at University)
This cover is normally for things like a branch of a tree in your garden
falling on someone, but will usually cover any act as long as it doesn't
involve a motor vehicle. Mine will cover accident with motorised
equipment ON my property but not off. (so I'm covered if I chop off
someones toe on my lawn but not on the gress verge outside my house!)

A few years ago I dug at a few typical 'houshold' policies with all
risks extensions, and "The only vehicles excluded in their 'Liability'
sections were mechanically or motor propelled ones"

see:
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/44/article10.html
"Cycling as house contents"

Now my daught is in a 'shared house' in London, I'll get her to check
her new insurance policy, and if she isn't covered I'll get her to join LCC.

This isn't 'Legal' advice but don't get frightened by 'Daily Mail' type
stories and join the throng who say cyclists must have specific
insurance when most of us already have it and only have to read the
right bit of our 'household' policy.

Jim Chisholm