36’’ Schlumpf

mark williamson said:

Although apparently Florian Schlumpf has expressed worries regarding
the risk of injury when going at 36" Schlumpf speeds I do rather agree
with what somebody said in that thread: the main advantage of it
wouldn't be the ability to go ridiculously fast. Rather it'd just be
good for folks (like me) who don't like riding with really short cranks
but would still like to maintain a decent cruising speed (and, as
always, to have a low gear for muni stuff).

Presumably the KH Schlumpf hub will be wider than the original hub?
And therefore more suitable for 36ers? That'd be cool; and could be
combined with the dual length KH cranks to give a ridiculous range of
configurations!

Exactly. I do think that my average speed would increase a little bit
on flat ground with a geared 36 though. The main goal wouldn't be to
go ridiculously fast, it would be to slightly increase my average speed
and lower my cadence at the same time. A coker with 150 cranks in low
gear would be able to climb most mountain roads, I usually stick with
125s, but 150s seem like they get the job done a lot easier for longer
steeper sections.

Also, as you pointed out...the dual length cranks would allow for even
more options. If the ride is going to be rolling hills everywhere you
can just screw the pedals into the 125mm spot and keep it in low gear.

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osmundo said:

I've read that at higher speeds the 36 is more stable than the 29er.
Makes sense to me. Anyone out there with personal experience on this?
Does anyone know how a 36er guni would compare in weight to my 17 lb
coker?

Depending on build, the main difference in a 36" guni over a Coker would
be the hub change. You would also have to make some modifications to
the frame as well which would probably net at least a little more
additional weight. Otherwise, the answer to that question depends
entirely on the components used; aluminum vs. steel for example.

Yes, a 36" wheel is going to be more stable than a 29". There is
probably a physics word for this, but I don't know what it would be.
Inertia? Even assuming a rim and tire of the exact same type (only
bigger) the size and weight would still make the larger wheel roll more
smoothly. I've always found it much easier to ride long distances
without dismounts on bigger wheels.

This is theoretically true at any speed, though at very slow speeds the
extra weight and size of the bigger wheel makes it harder to control.
So I'd say not for very slow speeds, but for anything from
"comfortable" speeds on up.

Speaking as a guy with a broken collar bone, I can fully understand
Florian Schlumpf's reason for avoiding high speeds on his unicycles.
Anything over your ability to run carries the possibility of danger in
even a basic dismount, and the potential for much worse to happen if
you wrap up a shoelace or similar (according to my speedo I was going
about 15 mph when this happened to me).

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FWIW, I was on a ride yesterday with tholub and mscalisi. Tom was on a
29" Schlumpf, and Mike and I were on (non-geared) 36ers. Tom looked
quite comfortable on the fast downhills where Mike and I were spinning
like crazy to keep up. Based on that, I'm still planning to stick with
the 29" wheel for my first geared unicycle once the KH-Schlumpf comes
out.

As Mike put it, courage is the limiting factor when it comes to speed
on a geared 36. I believe a geared 36 has too much speed on the high
end and not enough climb-ability on the low end. Whereas a geared 29er
should be a better balance, and it's more suited for rougher offroad.

Something else I learned yesterday is that the hill climbs around my
house are abnormally steep, so perhaps my assessment of "climb-ability"
is a bit skewed.

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phlegm said:

As Mike put it, courage is the limiting factor when it comes to speed
on a geared 36. I believe a geared 36 has too much speed on the high
end and not enough climb-ability on the low end. Whereas a geared 29er
should be a better balance, and it's more suited for rougher offroad.

Something else I learned yesterday is that the hill climbs around my
house are abnormally steep, so perhaps my assessment of "climb-ability"
is a bit skewed.

I think that the low gear on a 29er is way too low. the low gear on a
geared 36 is perfect. Now when you are talking about high gears...the
high gear on a geared 36 is probably too high, and the high gear on a
29 is a little better. My perfect geared 36 would be 1:1 on low gear
and 1:1.35-1.4 or something on high gear, so it has a little bigger
virtual wheel than the virtual wheel of a schlumpf 29er, but with the
stability of a bigger wheel.

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siafirede said:

I think that the low gear on a 29er is way too low.

That's because either:
1. You're a much stronger rider than me, or
2. You aren't surrounded by mountain roads with lots of 10%+ grades.

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phlegm said:

That's because either:
1. You're a much stronger rider than me, or
2. You aren't surrounded by mountain roads with lots of 10%+ grades.

A coker with 150s is pretty good at climbing most mountain roads I have
been on. A 29er with 125s is definitely great at climbing too though
and will be easier to climb steeper sections of road(>10%) since it is
so light. It will definitely depend on your riding technique and the
frequency of steep sections of road near you, as you stated. It is all
preference of the rider. I used to hate climbing with my coker, but
now I love it. I usually keep 125s on my coker and I can climb most
things with them, including a ride I did with Aspen Mike at the
Colorado National Monument.

Ken Looi was using 114mm cranks on his Coker to climb 12% grades (I
think some sections were at least that for Arthurs Pass), but he is
also insane and a really strong rider.

It all comes down to preference, and for me when I tried out the 29er
on low gear I just felt so limited and wanted a higher gear even when
climbing (but I couldn't climb on high gear and feel stable). The low
gear really comes into play when you want to do some light off road
trails or single track, but I just feel like on the road I would feel
limited. A schlumpf 29er definitely outshines a schlumpf 36 for light
muni though.

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siafirede said:

Ken Looi was using 114mm cranks on his Coker to climb 12% grades (I
think some sections were at least that for Arthurs Pass), but he is
also insane and a really strong rider.

I think one of the sections has a 16% *average* grade. I got up it all
on 150s on the 29er, but I know everyone except Ken and maybe Roger
walked up much of it even on 150mm. I've at least once ridden up a 10%
grade with 110mm cranks on a coker, but I think I might well have been
faster up it on a 29er.

I'm on 125s on the Schlumpf 29er at the moment, which is kind of nice,
on the flat it's comfortable to go 10-12mph in low gear, 15-17 in high
gear.

Joe

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Tom was kind enough to swap cycles with me for an extended downhill
section. I was amazed how easy it was to go faster than a coker with
much less effort.

Anyways, my thoughts are that a 29er has a more usable top gear while a
36er has a more usable low gear. The 29er geared up is fast enough, but
an easier gear to push.My travels have proven to me that 99.9% of the
roads you're likely to encounter while touring are climbable on a 36er
with 150s or shorter.

I'll attest that Phlegm is an efficient rider that can certainly climb.
(He was ahead of me on most of yesterdays hills). The hills near where
he lives are the .1 percent I mentioned above.

Combine steep with gravel or dirt, and a 29er certainly starts to make
sense.

I think still think that the 36er is more stable, although the 29er
also seemed stable. I personally like that the 36er is higher up. That
means if you UPD, you have a tiny smidgen more time to prepare for your
fall.

...although a 29er is more useful in that its more transportable, and
you can ride more aggressive MUni with it.

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siafirede said:

Ken Looi was using 114mm cranks on his Coker to climb 12% grades (I
think some sections were at least that for Arthurs Pass), but he is
also insane and a really strong rider.

I don't think I'm a strong rider, I just climb well cos I'm light. I
recall you leaving us all in the dust when you were ploughing into that
headwind on the Otago Rail Trail. A Coker with 125mm or 140mm cranks
would have climbed Arthurs Pass a lot more efficiently, but been quite
slow on the ride getting there. I couldn't be bothered changing cranks
at the bottom. 114's are my general road riding cranks.

siafirede said:

I think that the low gear on a 29er is way too low. the low gear on a
geared 36 is perfect. Now when you are talking about high gears...the
high gear on a geared 36 is probably too high, and the high gear on a
29 is a little better.

I couldn't agree more.

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johnfoss said:

Yes, a 36" wheel is going to be more stable than a 29". There is
probably a physics word for this, but I don't know what it would be.
Inertia? Even assuming a rim and tire of the exact same type (only
bigger) the size and weight would still make the larger wheel roll more
smoothly. I've always found it much easier to ride long distances
without dismounts on bigger wheels.

Warning: unreliable amateur physics coming up

A larger wheel has a higher inertia - it's a heavier thing to
accelerate in a straight line, without rotating it. Same effect as it
being hard to push a car along due to its large inertia. Inertia is
just to do with mass - how much stuff is there is the only important
factor.

But it also has higher /moment of intertia/. Moment of inertia is
different because it has to do with where the mass is distributed as
well as how much mass there is. Moment of inertia determines how
difficult it is to change the rotation of an object; this is rather
similar to the way plain old mass determines how difficult it is to
change the motion of an object.

Moment of inertia is higher if the mass is greater. It's also higher
if the mass is distributed further away from the centre of rotation.
In a 36er, there's both more mass outright due to the larger rim and
heavy tyre - plus it's further away from the centre. Given there are
two factors at play here, the increased moment of inertia should be
quite significantly bigger (as opposed to just "stretching" the mass of
a 29er out to a larger diameter, or putting a really heavy tyre on a
29er).

Since we can say "moment of inertia" = "resistance to changes in
rotation" it's clear we should expect a 36er should be quite a bit
harder to get rolling, harder to stop rolling, and more comfortable to
keep rolling. Which in fact it is 🙂

Yet again physics has told us the stuff we already knew. Of course,
the important point is the physics help understand whats actually going
on and gives a way of measuring and predicting what results design
variations might produce.

Sorry for rambling 🙂 I think the physics of unicycling is quite
interesting and have spent a lot of time considering it. The main
problem is that there are a squillion different factors at play and
it's hard to estimate how significant each is relative to the others.

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pedals!
Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
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siafirede said:

Exactly. I do think that my average speed would increase a little bit
on flat ground with a geared 36 though. The main goal wouldn't be to
go ridiculously fast, it would be to slightly increase my average speed
and lower my cadence at the same time. A coker with 150 cranks in low
gear would be able to climb most mountain roads, I usually stick with
125s, but 150s seem like they get the job done a lot easier for longer
steeper sections.

Yep. I like the feel of long cranks, but I found they limited my
speed. I like to spin on long cranks, but there's a limit to how fast
I can do that within my limited aerobic fitness 🙂 On a bicycle I tend
towards pushing really hard in a high gear - I guess I'd like the
ability to cruise at a not-ridiculous speed without having to maintain
a wobble-inducing out-of-breath making cadence.

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Post deleted....misunderstanding

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