30 minute test

leanman said:

on a ez club ride today, the subject of improving power came up. my buddy did a test of 5 minutes a few days ago, and was asking the best way to improve his power and endurance. he , like most of the guys, rides the trainer other than the sat or sunday ride outside. he says he just spins for an hour thirty 5 days a week in a nice gear, not too big, not too small. 100rpm's.

Most common way is some form of interval training. Break a goal ride down into bite size chunks.

If the goal is to ride 30min at 300watts and current ability is 30min at 285watts then you may do efforts like...

3 x 10min at 300watts
6 x 5min at 310 watts
15 x 2min at 320 watts

From this one would expect achieving the goal on a subsequent 30min test would be well within reach.

Quoted post said:

he then said his test was putting it in a much bigger gear( but not too big) and going as long as he could. he felt fine for a few minutes then gutted it out for the last few..5 minutes total at 100 rpm's. said the bigger gear was hard on his legs, as his breathing was ok, but knew he was working much harder.

Most people get higher power using bigger gears. Good if trying to set power targets but if the long term goal is racing then may need to keep the cadence up. But 100rpm is good. Some drop down to 35-55rpm believing this is making you stronger (training at 300-400 watts in whatever gear is not going to make you stronger).

Quoted post said:

i always heard you increase a bit each week say, 5 minutes this week then 6 then 7, and then go back down to 6 then 7 then 8 .. on the traditional 3 weeks on 1 week off program...he told me all his trainer rides he feels good , but that using the bigger gear really felt uncomfortable.

One does need to overload the body attain the positive adaptation to be able to work harder. In theory you can cause an overload in just 5min, well 1min even, just ride a Kilo. But it's very hard to stay in condition like this unless you are very strict with your diet.

Sounds like you mate has a plan. I assume this is a winter plan to stay fit. Sounds good and I wouldn't try to overthink it. If he builds to 30min of going hard time on the trainer he should have a good base of fitness to start the season when the weather picks up.

leanman said:

any ideas?

Tell them to stop wasting 1.5 hrs 5x/wk spinning a nice easy gear on the trainer followed by an ez club ride on Sunday, then suggest they read the link below, especially the white chart off to the right.

Sweet Spot Part Deux | FasCat Coaching :: Cycling Coach for all Cyclists

^ +1. Although I haven't been riding outdoors for some time now, I rescently (over a week or so) moved up my 2x20's from a high L3 ~90% to a mid L4 ~96%. I love it, but if anyone can give me a remake I would be very greatful.

My (indoor trainer) schedule is:

Monday- OFF
Tues- 2x20 @ L4
Wed- 2x20 @ L4
Thur- OFF
Fri- 2x20 @ L4
Sat- OFF
Sun- 3x20 @ L3

A 15 min warm-up, 5 min recovery, and 10 min cool down on every day.

Thanks,
-Greg

gman0482 said:

^ +1. Although I haven't been riding outdoors for some time now, I rescently (over a week or so) moved up my 2x20's from a high L3 ~90% to a mid L4 ~96%. I love it, but if anyone can give me a remake I would be very greatful.

My (indoor trainer) schedule is:

Monday- OFF
Tues- 2x20 @ L4
Wed- 2x20 @ L4
Thur- OFF
Fri- 2x20 @ L4
Sat- OFF
Sun- 3x20 @ L3

A 15 min warm-up, 5 min recovery, and 10 min cool down on every day.

Thanks,
-Greg

1. Time to retest FTP
2. Time to make your hard days harder and your easier days easier

Thank you, I was thinking about doing that, the only thing that held me back from re-testing was that I did my FTP test like 3 weeks ago, so I was going to wait another 2 weeks or so.
In the summer, I would do a recovery ride instead of taking a day off, but during the winter, I can't do slow rides on the trainer cause they always turn into L3 or higher 🙂.

Some comments:

- I never do back to back L4 days. The second day is too tough mentally if I work "hard enough" on the first. Are you sure you have your FTP measured right? Also, are you *really* doing L4 or are you doing SST (90% or L3/4)? If you are doing SST back to back days might be possible, but again then you are choosing two smaller workouts over one larger and one smaller and I think the overall program might suffer a bit from that.

- things I would recommend:
* split your L4 workouts
* change things up more. Don't always do the same thing even
when doing L4. E.g. do 2x20 L4 one day then 1x60 SST the
next, etc.
* sprinkle in some L5/MAP stuff every ten days or so and again
change it up each time

You're right, that sound good. I need to control my training a little better. Couple of weeks ago, I was doing all L3 work and an occational very long L2. Lately every time I get on, I end up doing 93-98% even if my intention is to do L3. I tested my FTP no too long ago, and I got some good advice that I shouldn't be obsessed about FTP so much which I was doing. Now I'll try to check it maybe once per month, which is coming up in about a week.

The idea of a day in 1x60 @ L3 and another with a bit of L5 sounds very very good. 🙂

Thanks,
-Greg

gman0482 said:

You're right, that sound good. I need to control my training a little better. Couple of weeks ago, I was doing all L3 work and an occational very long L2. Lately every time I get on, I end up doing 93-98% even if my intention is to do L3. I tested my FTP no too long ago, and I got some good advice that I shouldn't be obsessed about FTP so much which I was doing. Now I'll try to check it maybe once per month, which is coming up in about a week.

The idea of a day in 1x60 @ L3 and another with a bit of L5 sounds very very good. 🙂

Thanks,
-Greg

When I said, "make your easier days easier," I didn't necessarily mean recovery rides. Your long L2/low L3 is a good idea. But, when you go hard, you need to make sure you are actually doing your 2x20's at the 95-105% -- preferably at least 100% of FTP. If you can do back-to-back days of that, you need to retest your FTP.