3-speed shifting woes

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
(snip!!)

Quoted message said:

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Mark

MArk,

I had similar case some time ago, replaced clutch and couple of other bits
and pieces, to no avail until I replaced the spring, which because of wear
becomes slightly shorter in time. Get yourself a new spring and try again.

Cheers,

Tomek Li

[email hidden] wrote:
....

Quoted message said:

Last winter I built an AW into a 559 rim for my winter bike, and after
a while it started to slip in 3rd.

....

Quoted message said:

After a bit of research I was told that the cruciform clutch was
probably worn. ...It still slipped. So, in went a third
clutch, and I was getting mighty peeved when after this effort the
problem persisted.

....

Quoted message said:

So, what else should I do? It's got to be really bad luck that I had
four worn clutches in a row, but perhaps I should install a brand new
clutch to eliminate that possibility? Should I change the indicator
spindle (it seems there are a few different lengths)? ...
Mark

Mark,

Check to be sure that all internal parts are in good condition-clutch,
pinion pins, clutch spring, pawls, pawl springs and so on. Check the
axle to make sure it is straight. Note that some replacement parts,
even genuine Sturmey-Archer replacement parts, are not well made and it
is important to look at the wear surfaces. If a hub has been used
without adequate lubrication or shifted roughly into third it is common
for the clutch and pinion pins to be worn. Shifting from 2nd to 3rd
should be done with light (emphasis on light) pressure on the pedals.

It is unlikely that the indicator rod is causing the problem, as you
said you tried disconnecting the shift cable and riding in 3rd with no
shift cable attached. Just check to make sure that the chain portion
of the indicator bears up against the outer radiused purtion of the
axle nut. Than adjust the indicator so that the cable is taught but
not binding when 1st gear is selected-I tighten the adjuster barrel
until a light pull on the cable produces no additional movement of the
indicator rod. Shift cable should move freely and have no kinks.

Make sure that all parts are very clean, and lubricate with a
lightweight oil (previous threads have discussed that grease in the hub
or 3 in 1 oil are not suitable). Grease can be used with the 1/4" ball
bearings on either end. Adjust the hub per instructions which can be
found on line at:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/samaintind.htm

It is important that the right hand cone especially is adjusted per
instructions. Another common mistake is to put too many 3/16" balls
into the right hand ball ring- there should be 24, though there is
physically space for 25.

Good luck,

Bill Putnam

Mark Yahoo said:

I consider myself reasonably well versed with the Sturmey AW hub. I
have both a Raleigh Superbe and a Twenty whose hubs behave just fine
and work well, and have worked on quite a few others.

Quoted message said:

Last winter I built an AW into a 559 rim for my winter bike, and
after a while it started to slip in 3rd. This was not the usual
case of freewheeling between 3rd and 2nd due to mis-adjustment, but
of the hub breaking loose for a moment until it caught again. And it
only did this in 3rd gear, with both 2nd and 1st remaining
firm. This was rather annoying, and perhaps dangerous when trying to
accelerate.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/sturmey-archer.html

Quoted message said:

After a bit of research I was told that the cruciform clutch was
probably worn. I took the hub apart under guidance from an old hand at
such things, and when he saw the clutch he showed me where it was worn.
Simple enough, install another used but not worn-looking clutch. But
it too started to slip in short order, so I ran the hub with the cable
disconnected (which leaves it stuck in 3rd) to make sure cable tension
was not affecting it in anyway. It still slipped. So, in went a third
clutch, and I was getting mighty peeved when after this effort the
problem persisted.

This design flaw cannot be corrected by new components. You would
need to make a sloped (slightly conical end) engagement on the four
pins and the driver cross.

Quoted message said:

Instead of delving into more of the internal bits of the hub, I
decided to replace it all entirely by emptying it down to the bare
shell and screwing in the guts from another hub. You guessed it -
same problem! So this time I replaced the shifter, thinking it was
worn and messing with cable tension, but to no avail.

You are wasting your time!

Quoted message said:

So, what else should I do? It's got to be really bad luck that I had
four worn clutches in a row, but perhaps I should install a brand new
clutch to eliminate that possibility? Should I change the indicator
spindle (it seems there are a few different lengths)? Switch to a
Shimano 3-speed instead? (kidding) This problem has me confounded...

Quoted message said:

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

You cannot use an AW hub in top gear reliably. I discovered that from
going over the bars in a sprint on two occasions. That was the end
of SA - AW for me.

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

You cannot use an AW hub in top gear reliably. I discovered that from
going over the bars in a sprint on two occasions. That was the end
of SA - AW for me.

[email hidden]

Jobst- or anyone...

Do you know if this design flaw has been corrected in the S-RF3 hub
(the Taiwan-made version of the AW hub:
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey.html )? It'd be perfect for a
project I have in mind- but I'd like to avoid going over the bars if I
can.

Jeff

On 25 May 2005 08:11:07 -0700, "dynohubbill" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Check to be sure that all internal parts are in good condition-clutch,
pinion pins, clutch spring, pawls, pawl springs and so on. Check the
axle to make sure it is straight. Note that some replacement parts,
even genuine Sturmey-Archer replacement parts, are not well made and it
is important to look at the wear surfaces. If a hub has been used
without adequate lubrication or shifted roughly into third it is common
for the clutch and pinion pins to be worn. Shifting from 2nd to 3rd
should be done with light (emphasis on light) pressure on the pedals.

Why should there be pressure on the pedals? My impression, and this is
borne out by Sturmey literature from way back, is that shifting Sturmeys
works much better if you hold the pedals still or backpedal a little.
Sturmeys are *not* derailers which only shift when going forward, and in
particular, they're not designed to shift under load at all. If I keep up
the load on my Sturmey in 2 and throw the trigger to three, it won't shift
until I let up the pressure. Incidentally, they're also pretty damn hard
to damage seriously.

Quoted message said:

It is unlikely that the indicator rod is causing the problem, as you
said you tried disconnecting the shift cable and riding in 3rd with no
shift cable attached. Just check to make sure that the chain portion
of the indicator bears up against the outer radiused purtion of the
axle nut. Than adjust the indicator so that the cable is taught but
not binding when 1st gear is selected-I tighten the adjuster barrel
until a light pull on the cable produces no additional movement of the
indicator rod. Shift cable should move freely and have no kinks.

The official party line from Sturmey for adjustment is that the indicator
rod's end (the part where it goes from a cylindrical rod to a small flat
piece with a hole in it that the rest of the chain connects to) should be
level with the axle end while in 2. This is why the nut on the right hand
side has the view windows. If you have a thirdparty or the wrong Sturmey
indicator chain (there are at least three different lengths), this fails a
bit, though. My regime involves doing the above, then following up by
moving the shifter slowly from 2 to 3 and back a few times while
simultaneously bouncing the pedals forward. You should feel the 'gap' in
the hub between 2 and 3, and you can adjust the indicator chain so that
the gap on the hub is right in the middle of the space between 2 and 3 on
the shifter. The transition between 2 and 1 will automatically follow, as
it doesn't have a no-drive gap.

Quoted message said:

Make sure that all parts are very clean, and lubricate with a
lightweight oil (previous threads have discussed that grease in the hub
or 3 in 1 oil are not suitable). Grease can be used with the 1/4" ball
bearings on either end. Adjust the hub per instructions which can be
found on line at:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/samaintind.htm

It is important that the right hand cone especially is adjusted per
instructions. Another common mistake is to put too many 3/16" balls
into the right hand ball ring- there should be 24, though there is
physically space for 25.

I would be particularly careful with the pawl springs, if those don't
drive the pawls outward properly it's possible for the hub to freewheel.

It's really weird that the OP has inserted a whole new inner works and
still has the same problem, though.

Jasper