3 questions?

Your 20 minutes effort should be 105% of your FT. Your 1 hour average power (FT) is 95% of your 20 minutes power. Is hard doing them on the trainer for various reason. 35 is not old. Yes, it takes couple of years racing and training seriously to get faster and ride longer on the bike. With the right training (would need a coach), you may progress faster. Crashes??? Crashes can happen in a bike race. Does it happen a lot??? Depends on the course profile, the weather condition, and the pace of the pack. If less than 1 km to go and the pace wasn't going ballistic, you know there would be 30 guys contesting for the field sprint. Crash can happen like that. Crash can happen even when the field trying to recover from a chase effort by riding too slowly. One rider loses his or her focus. Touch wheels. Off they went down and most likely will take down couple of riders with them.

ecandl said:

I would appreciate your help on any or all of these questions:

1. When doing 2x20s do you try to be completely worn out by the end of the second or do you go at 95% of your best effort. I find these very difficult when on a trainer.

2. I have been riding most of my life here and there. I am 35 yrs. old and after a few years of triathlons want to focus on getting fast on my bike. I've read that blood supply increases slowly over years. Does it really take several years to maximize your potential on a bike? And can you continue to improve for years - even at my age?

3. How often do people crash and how bad are crashes in racing? I've only crashed a couple of times on the road with little to no injuries.

Thanks for your help. I realize these questions are all over the place but I was hoping for some answers.

ecandl said:

1. When doing 2x20s do you try to be completely worn out by the end of the second or do you go at 95% of your best effort.

It depends on the day and what I'm targeting with the workout. If it's early in a weekly block and I've scheduled a high end L4 workout I'll tend to either do 2x20 at the highest power I can sustain or shoot for 3x20 but either way those days take effort to finish my final set. If it's later in my training block or within a couple of days of a hard ride I tend to go a bit easier and target lower end L4 work. On those days I'll feel much better in the final minutes of the final set. You shouldn't kill yourself everyday either mentally or physically so it pays to schedule both time and intensity in a way that works for you.

Quoted post said:

2....I am 35 yrs. old and after a few years of triathlons want to focus on getting fast on my bike. ... Does it really take several years to maximize your potential on a bike? And can you continue to improve for years - even at my age?

Yes, and yes unless you've already reached your best potential but for most of us there's still room to improve well past the age of 35.

Quoted post said:

3. How often do people crash and how bad are crashes in racing?

Let's see, most folks get no more than road rash, some break bones and once in a while someone gets seriously injured. You could ask the same question about skiing, highschool football or any other sport. The potential to get seriously injured or even killed is definitely there but more often than not injuries aren't that serious. I've nursed my share of road rash, broken bones in two crashes over the years but nothing worse. But heck you go over the gaurd rail on a twisty mountain descent and it could be a lot worse. I'm not gonna say it's exactly safe but the risk is fairly reasonable, especially once you get out of the lowest categories. As far as how often it varies. I didn't crash in my first six or seven seasons of serious racing although I saw a lot of carnage. Then I had a really bad season with three crashes and two broken bones and I then I managed to keep the rubber side down for another five years before retiring. Now I'm back at it and we'll see how it goes.

Quoted post said:

I realize these questions are all over the place ...

No kidding! That was a random assortment 🙂

Good luck,
Dave

I didn't crash in my first six or seven seasons of serious racing although I saw a lot of carnage. Then I had a really bad season with three crashes and two broken bones and I then I managed to keep the rubber side down for another five years before retiring.

Thanks for the replies. Which bones?

ecandl said:

... Which bones?

My right wrist during an early summer criterium. A couple of guys went down in front of me and I went over the bars when I hit them. I rehabbed pretty well including a lot of fixed gear road riding with a cast on. I went that route since I could use just the left brake and still have some control. It worked wonders in terms of keeping me fit but led to a big mistake. I started riding track training sessions again in late August and was pretty darn fit. So I did some track racing in September and was doing all right. Then a lap or so into a points race somebody crashed and nine riders went down in the pile. I was wearing a brace on my previously broken right wrist and riding high on the bank in turn one. Without thinking I tucked the bad wrist up into my chest to protect it. Bottom line I fell the long way down the banking to the left and broke my left elbow. That took pins and wires to hold it together long enough for it to mend. I learned a big lesson, never race injured, it's too easy to overcompensate to protect a previous injury and get hurt much worse as a result. I probably would have just landed on some other guy if I'd fallen to the high side but falling down the banking is an awfully long fall onto a hard surface at speed.

Anyway in terms of friends and team mates, wrists and collar bones are probably the most common broken bones. It sure helps if you can learn to instinctively tuck and roll but there's no time to think about it you just have to roll instinctively. I managed to roll in my other crashes and then I just got some road rash. Riding cyclocross helped me to learn to go down gracefully and more importantly helped me to avoid going down at all in wet slippery conditions.

-Dave

daveryanwyoming said:

It sure helps if you can learn to instinctively tuck and roll but there's no time to think about it you just have to roll instinctively.

I've had my fair share of crashes and am convinced that many years as a football (soccer) goalkeeper taught me instinctive diving/falling techniques that have served me well on a bike (well, off a bike!) and helped prevent anything more serious than road rash. Others that have a martial arts background or other sports involving controlled falling to the ground probably learn similar things.

Or I could just be lucky:p

It's rare that anyone is hurt badly in a race. Even the most horrific looking crashes usually cause only road rash and bruises. I'm not sure why this is, but in my experience the worst crashes occur during training. I have one friend who was in a coma for a week (no helmet!), another that broke his back (strong gust of wind) and I, myself, am currently recovering from a bad concussion caused by a loose dog -- by far my worst injury ever. I also broke an elbow during a training ride many years ago. Maybe it's that we have our guard down while we train?

I try and do my 2x 20 and 3x 20 at 95-100% but I personally always find my first effort best. As a 38 yo working father cat 4/5 - I find it hard to do more than 2 days in a row of these- the power isn't there for me on a third day.

Yes, I've improved and continue to improve from 36y+. I hope this continues.

I just started road racing (from mountain bike racing). I feel safer from crashes racing with 35+ cat 4's than the young 4/5's who I think generally take more risks. As a newbie racer, I consider criterium races/finishes to be the most sketchy. I personally feel safer in road races. There are always time trials and hill climbs which are safe.

3. A recent crash, pics from the same race.

ecandl said:

I would appreciate your help on any or all of these questions:

1. When doing 2x20s do you try to be completely worn out by the end of the second or do you go at 95% of your best effort. I find these very difficult when on a trainer.

2. I have been riding most of my life here and there. I am 35 yrs. old and after a few years of triathlons want to focus on getting fast on my bike. I've read that blood supply increases slowly over years. Does it really take several years to maximize your potential on a bike? And can you continue to improve for years - even at my age?

3. How often do people crash and how bad are crashes in racing? Road rash is one thing, broken bones is another. I realize everything in life involves risk but have not been around racing much to know. I've only crashed a couple of times on the road with little to no injuries.

Thanks for your help. I realize these questions are all over the place but I was hoping for some answers.

1. If you're doing it right, the last half of the last 20 should not be easy.

2. There's no instant gratification when it comes to real improvement on the bike. Intense, short duration training strategies can yield good results temporarily, but the for lasting, long term improvement, you have to put in a few years and a lot of intelligent miles.

3. If you're going to race, you're going to crash. Don't race unless you can accept that fact and afford the consequences.

Well I can anwser for the third one. I have been riding for about 4 years. I ride a little freeride,but mostly cross country. But if you are racing or just going out jumping. Ethier way you can fall but it just matters if you are reading to push your limits a little more. I have raced a little and the only time I have fallen is when i was cut off or I came unclipped down a hill.

ecandl said:

I would appreciate your help on any or all of these questions:

1. When doing 2x20s do you try to be completely worn out by the end of the second or do you go at 95% of your best effort. I find these very difficult when on a trainer.

2. I have been riding most of my life here and there. I am 35 yrs. old and after a few years of triathlons want to focus on getting fast on my bike. I've read that blood supply increases slowly over years. Does it really take several years to maximize your potential on a bike? And can you continue to improve for years - even at my age?

3. How often do people crash and how bad are crashes in racing? Road rash is one thing, broken bones is another. I realize everything in life involves risk but have not been around racing much to know. I've only crashed a couple of times on the road with little to no injuries.

Thanks for your help. I realize these questions are all over the place but I was hoping for some answers.

Ergoman said:

1. If you're doing it right, the last half of the last 20 should not be easy.

2. There's no instant gratification when it comes to real improvement on the bike. Intense, short duration training strategies can yield good results temporarily, but the for lasting, long term improvement, you have to put in a few years and a lot of intelligent miles.

3. If you're going to race, you're going to crash. Don't race unless you can accept that fact and afford the consequences.

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3. It's not a given that racing = crashing. I've done lots of club racing in my 20s and now I've been racing again for about 4 years - "fun" rides and 1 1/2 seasons with a club.
I've only crashed once(last year) - going slowly up a hill. Guy came off in front of me. I had nowhere to go. Came down. Not hurt(just scraped h/bar tape and STI). Got up, asked him if he was ok(+ said I wasn't impressed with his riding!) and mananged to chase and catch the bunch over the brow of the hill.
So - years of racing = only 1 crash. I've had people come off around me though.

Bigbananabike said:

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3. It's not a given that racing = crashing. I've done lots of club racing in my 20s and now I've been racing again for about 4 years - "fun" rides and 1 1/2 seasons with a club.
I've only crashed once(last year) - going slowly up a hill. Guy came off in front of me. I had nowhere to go. Came down. Not hurt(just scraped h/bar tape and STI). Got up, asked him if he was ok(+ said I wasn't impressed with his riding!) and mananged to chase and catch the bunch over the brow of the hill.
So - years of racing = only 1 crash. I've had people come off around me though.

As I said. If you're going to race, you're going to crash. You raced. You crashed. I think you made the point. BTW, club racing barely counts.

Ergoman said:

As I said. If you're going to race, you're going to crash. You raced. You crashed. I think you made the point. BTW, club racing barely counts.

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I crashed ONCE. Club racing barely counts...you're either trying(emphasis on trying) to be funny or you're a 1/2 wit:o Your choice.

Bigbananabike said:

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I crashed ONCE. Club racing barely counts...you're either trying(emphasis on trying) to be funny or you're a 1/2 wit:o Your choice.

If the facts don't support your argument, why do you think an insult will? Did you hit your head when you crashed?