2x20 ITT simulation?

RapDaddyo said:

And, what did you find when you tried your first 1x60? Actually, what did you find when you tried your first 1x40?

Well, I don't have an exact correlation for what the poster was asking. At the time, I was estimating my FT based on 3x20 power rather than 2x20 (since I didn't have complete faith that my 2x20 power was the same as my 1x60 power), and I did find that I could do 3x30 or 1x40 at .95FT on the trainer if I wanted. To this day, I never have done a 1x60 TT effort in a race or on the trainer. I have done 60min NP values at or above my highest 3x20 AP values, but that was after my training had shifted from indoors to outdoors, with months in between.

frenchyge said:

Well, I don't have an exact correlation for what the poster was asking. At the time, I was estimating my FT based on 3x20 power rather than 2x20 (since I didn't have complete faith that my 2x20 power was the same as my 1x60 power), and I did find that I could do 3x30 or 1x40 at .95FT on the trainer if I wanted. To this day, I never have done a 1x60 TT effort in a race or on the trainer. I have done 60min NP values at or above my highest 3x20 AP values, but that was after my training had shifted from indoors to outdoors, with months in between.

Interesting. I found that my 1x40 power was ~.95x my 2x20 power. Unfortunately, I also found that my 1x60 power was ~.95x my 1x40 power. So, my (initial) 1x60 power was ~.95x.95x my 2x20 power. I'm hoping to close the gap to 1x60W=.95(2x20W), by riding 1x60s regularly. It's maddening, because I can sit there in my desk chair and convince myself that if I can sustain a constant power on my trainer for 20 minutes that I should be able to hold it for 40 or 60 minutes, but it is a little different when I'm actually trying to extend the effort on the trainer. Of course, what I really need to do is to increase my 100-120min power, so maybe I need to be attempting 120min trainer efforts from time to time. Cool. Just the right length to watch a movie (if only the sweat would stay out of my eyes so I could actually watch the movie).😄

The OP has made considerable improvements in these intervals. In the first 20mins he has dropped 5 beats a minute and gained 31 watts! in the second he has lost 13 bpm and gained 13 watts! While you are seeing improvements in the bigger gears it might be a good idea to try another effort at 105 cadence and push for 280 watts? If you cant do it then it would seem you are better in bigger gears but if you can manage it I would recommend the 105 cadence permanently because it should reduce muscle fatigue for the same HR.Also try an effort outdoors 😉 you may be surprised how well you go...I find I am a better rider outdoors.

What course is the 40kmTT by the way? is it flat, rolling terrain or are there big hills? this is important as you will be changing your position all the time unlike indoors.

RapDaddyo said:

I have a higher than normal VO2MAX and AWC relative to my FTP

I have a lower than normal VO2Max (the normal being the avg VO2Max of my friends cyclists). I even consider using a training schema that would be relative to my pVO2Max (that's Ric Stern approach if I am not mistaken) instead of relative to FTP next winter. That way I may get more motivation to test if more often, and track its improvement on a regular basis.

RapDaddyo said:

I am weak mentally and can't tough it out to 60 mins.

( 🙄 hmm not too sure about that..)

That's one thing with the 40k TT. It rarely feels like you gave everything you could have possible given.

How many 40k one has to do before being sure he rode his best.

RapDaddyo said:

Interesting. I found that my 1x40 power was ~.95x my 2x20 power. Unfortunately, I also found that my 1x60 power was ~.95x my 1x40 power.

When I'm doing long efforts (ie, 60 min or longer) on the trainer, I like to vary the intensity on some schedule just to help keep myself focused. I'll tend to do some kind of 1:2 or 1:3 over/under routine for those longer efforts. Looking back, I did 45 min with AP at FT on one occasion, and 75-90 mins at .95-.97 FT on several occasions using that routine (1:2 @ 106:95% FT as a target, which I would typically beat by a 1-2% margin).

Bear in mind that I was estimating my FT as 3x20 power rather than 2x20, so maybe my FT was slightly understated.

dm69 said:

What course is the 40kmTT by the way? is it flat, rolling terrain or are there big hills? this is important as you will be changing your position all the time unlike indoors.

Both course's are rolling terrain. This is why i'm thinking about throwing in some 2min over ftp, 2 mins under ftp no recovery for 40-60 mins. It will probably better approximate the effort i'll be doing during the actual TT. I just wanted to hone my steady intervals to try and get a good max target power i can sustain.

Well i figured watching the Tour De France TT would be good motivation to try a 2x25 and i was right. HR was a little higher (mostly cause i'm not a morning person) but i could breath fine, again, it was all muscle pain. In fact my hamstrings are killing me, i was barely able to stay on the bike and cool down spinning as my hamstrings just under my glute's were so tender. But i'm quite happy i was able to up the time by 10 more total minutes of work, and 7 watts higher (that's 279w for both)

2x25min
[img]members.accesswave.ca2x25min 279wsteady.jpgOpen ↗[/img]

Funny thing, i finished with a little bit of a pick up just to see how hard the workout was, and as much as my legs were hurting i proved to myself that i still had a little gas left. Oh, and i finished my second interval within seconds of Pereiro crossing the line... just thought that was kinda weird timing.

Like i said, i'm probably going to try some up/down (over/under) FTP workouts to closer approximate the rolling terrain, and keep pushing the time up to 60 mins or even 70 mins.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, keep'em coming.