2PD and vegetables...

You've just pointed out the huge flaw with the "2PD"
approach. My dinner weighes 2.5 lbs yet has only 500
calories. Eating tons of veggies is healthy by all accounts,
the "2PD" quack diet would prevent that. It's simple,
calories count, not weight of food. The "2PD" approach
doesn't pass the sniff test.

"Mirek Fidler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]-
berlin.de>...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I was just thinking a little about famous "2PD approach"
and I have one simple question:

I currently tend to eat about 2PD of green vegetables (low-
carb, low-calorie) each day.

Does 2pd mean that I should cut consumption of veggies?

Also, my favorite breakfast is ground flaxseed with hot
water. Should I weight it before adding a water or after?
Same question applies to pasta...

Mirek

hsph.harvard.edupyramids.htmlOpen ↗

the Harvard Food Pyramid...... supporting Brad's
comments here

"Brad Sheppard" <.com> wrote in message .com...

Quoted message said:

You've just pointed out the huge flaw with the "2PD"
approach. My dinner weighes 2.5 lbs yet has only 500
calories. Eating tons of veggies is healthy by all
accounts, the "2PD" quack diet would prevent that. It's
simple, calories count, not weight of food. The "2PD"
approach doesn't pass the sniff test.

"Mirek Fidler" <.cz> wrote in message .de>...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I was just thinking a little about famous "2PD approach"
and I have one simple question:

I currently tend to eat about 2PD of green vegetables
(low-carb, low-calorie) each day.

Does 2pd mean that I should cut consumption of veggies?

Also, my favorite breakfast is ground flaxseed with hot
water. Should I weight it before adding a water or
after? Same question applies to pasta...

Mirek

Mirek Fidler said:

Hi,

I was just thinking a little about famous "2PD approach"
and I have one simple question:

I currently tend to eat about 2PD of green vegetables (low-
carb, low-calorie) each day.

Does 2pd mean that I should cut consumption of veggies?

Also, my favorite breakfast is ground flaxseed with hot
water. Should I weight it before adding a water or after?
Same question applies to pasta...

Mirek

If you are overweight (i.e. your doctor is advising you to
lose weight), you should be make an "across the board"
reduction in the *amount* of what you are eating. The 2PD
approach works to guide you in making this reduction.
Think of the 2PD approach as less fat, less protein, *and*
less carbs (i.e. less food). What you should be weighing
is what is going into your mouth (hydrated flaxseed and
hydrated pasta).

Hope this helps you.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was just thinking a little about famous "2PD approach"
and I have

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

simple question:

I currently tend to eat about 2PD of green vegetables
(low-carb, low-calorie) each day.

Does 2pd mean that I should cut consumption of veggies?

Also, my favorite breakfast is ground flaxseed with hot
water.

Should I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

weight it before adding a water or after? Same question
applies to pasta...

Mirek

If you are overweight (i.e. your doctor is advising
you to lose

weight),

Quoted message said:

you should be make an "across the board" reduction in the
*amount* of

what

Quoted message said:

you are eating. The 2PD approach works to guide you in
making this reduction. Think of the 2PD approach as less
fat, less protein, *and*

less

Quoted message said:

carbs (i.e. less food). What you should be weighing is
what is going

into

So it would mean less vegetables for me?

Mirek

Mirek..... you are eating virtually carb free vegetables, so
reducing them isn't going to have much of a reduction in
your carbohydrate OR calorie intake

not all foods are created equally and that is what is
missing from the 2PD approach

an incomplete list of the "carb free veggies" is as
follows...... hope this helps......

cabbage, lettuce, tomato (only 1), cucumber, zucchini,
marrow, cauliflower, celery, rhubarb, yellow or green beans,
bean sprouts, spinach, greens (beet greens, swiss chard),
radishes, red or green peppers, broccoli, brussel sprouts,
asparagus, mushrooms, parsley, onions (1/2 cup)

"Mirek Fidler" <.cz> wrote in message .news.uni-berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was just thinking a little about famous "2PD
approach" and I have

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

simple question:

I currently tend to eat about 2PD of green vegetables
(low-carb, low-calorie) each day.

Does 2pd mean that I should cut consumption of
veggies?

Also, my favorite breakfast is ground flaxseed with
hot water.

Should I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

weight it before adding a water or after? Same
question applies to pasta...

Mirek

If you are overweight (i.e. your doctor is advising you
to lose

weight),

Quoted message said:

you should be make an "across the board" reduction in
the *amount* of

what

Quoted message said:

you are eating. The 2PD approach works to guide you in
making this reduction. Think of the 2PD approach as less
fat, less protein, *and*

less

Quoted message said:

carbs (i.e. less food). What you should be weighing is
what is going

into

So it would mean less vegetables for me?

Mirek

Brad Sheppard said:

You've just pointed out the huge flaw with the "2PD"
approach. My dinner weighes 2.5 lbs

That's a huge dinner.

Quoted message said:

yet has only 500 calories.

You would only know this if you had a bomb calorimeter,
which I doubt.

Quoted message said:

Eating tons of veggies is healthy by all accounts,

Eating tons of anything is unhealthy.

Quoted message said:

the "2PD" quack diet would prevent that.

Sounds like you are angry about something. What angers you?

Quoted message said:

It's simple, calories count, not weight of food.

Until people have a practical way of accurately ascertaining
the calories of the food they eat, calories are useful only
in research.

Quoted message said:

The "2PD" approach doesn't pass the sniff test.

The 2PD approach works.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
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What is all this about?
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Tiger Lily said:

hsph.harvard.edupyramids.htmlOpen ↗

the Harvard Food Pyramid...... supporting Brad's
comments here

The Food Pyramid has nothing to do with losing weight for
those who are overweight.

Truth is simple.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

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What is all this about?
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Mirek Fidler said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was just thinking a little about famous "2PD
approach" and I have

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

simple question:

I currently tend to eat about 2PD of green vegetables
(low-carb, low-calorie) each day.

Does 2pd mean that I should cut consumption of
veggies?

Also, my favorite breakfast is ground flaxseed with
hot water.

Should I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

weight it before adding a water or after? Same
question applies to pasta...

Mirek

If you are overweight (i.e. your doctor is advising you
to lose

weight),

Quoted message said:

you should be make an "across the board" reduction in
the *amount* of

what

Quoted message said:

you are eating. The 2PD approach works to guide you in
making this reduction. Think of the 2PD approach as less
fat, less protein, *and*

less

Quoted message said:

carbs (i.e. less food). What you should be weighing is
what is going

into

So it would mean less vegetables for me?

Less of *everything*.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

the food pyramid has EVERYTHING to do with a healthy diet

are you saying that isn't important??

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tiger Lily said:

hsph.harvard.edupyramidOpen ↗
s.html

the Harvard Food Pyramid...... supporting Brad's
comments here

The Food Pyramid has nothing to do with losing weight for
those who are overweight.

Truth is simple.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

** Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam? makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Mirek..... you are eating virtually carb free vegetables,
so reducing

them

Quoted message said:

isn't going to have much of a reduction in your
carbohydrate OR

calorie

Quoted message said:

intake

Calm down, I am far from taking 2PD approach 🙂

Actually, I think I was quite succesful replacing all
high-carb foods by veggies, decreasing my BMI from 29 to
24 in 5 months.

I just was thinking about 2PD.... And in fact, I think it
is not complete quackery. In fact, for some people, it
might work quite well. They could be getting somewhat
less micronutriens than I do, but weightloss itself is a
good thing...

Mirek

"Brad Sheppard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You've just pointed out the huge flaw with the "2PD"
approach. My dinner weighes 2.5 lbs yet has only 500
calories. Eating tons of veggies is healthy by all
accounts, the "2PD" quack diet would prevent that. It's
simple, calories count, not weight of food. The "2PD"
approach doesn't pass the sniff test.

I'm not sure I fully agree with you. I think there are 3
questions one must ask about a diet for the purpose of
losing weight.

1. Would one lose weight on it? If one sticks to a diet that
has some semblance to what a normal person would eat than
I think yes, but I'm not 100% sure. 2lbs of butter would
probably not work, but that is not what a normal person
would eat. So in order to lose weight, one does need some
sort of balance but nothing as elaborate as strict
following of the food pyramid.

2. Would you stay healthy on it. I think yes so long
as you stay balanced in your approach, but I would
take vitamins.

3. Would people stick with it. I don't have a clue. Maybe
you would get wrapped up in finding little tricks like
freeze dried ice cream.

I don't think Dr. Chung has made the case that this will
work better than other diets - particularly on point 3 - but
I don't think you can dismiss it out of hand either.

I will now duck behind a wall. 🙂

Bill

"Mirek Fidler" <.cz> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mirek..... you are eating virtually carb free
vegetables, so reducing

them

Quoted message said:

isn't going to have much of a reduction in your
carbohydrate OR

calorie

Quoted message said:

intake

Calm down, I am far from taking 2PD approach 🙂

lol...... i didn't think you were :-)

the beauty of the "virtually carb free veggies" is that they
are coincidentally the ones full of anti-oxidants and are
very healthy for us

imagine that..... no calories AND healthy! :-)

Quoted message said:

Actually, I think I was quite succesful replacing all high-
carb foods by veggies, decreasing my BMI from 29 to 24 in
5 months.

most people who use the "carb free veggies" to bulk out
their diet find this to be the case ........

Quoted message said:

I just was thinking about 2PD.... And in fact, I think it
is not complete quackery. In fact, for some people, it
might work quite well. They could be getting somewhat less
micronutriens than I do, but weightloss itself is a good
thing...

oh....... first rule of dieting... less food....... makes
sense for everyone as long as you can live with your diet,
and it's one that is healthy for you

kate

"Tiger Lily" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hsph.harvard.edupyramids.htmlOpen ↗

the Harvard Food Pyramid...... supporting Brad's
comments here

"Vegetables (in abundance) and Fruits (2 to 3 times)."

That's an amazingly non-quantitative recommendation.

I had a friend who was obese, even though she worked really
hard. Once, she told me that she had been a vegetarian for
years, but that lifestyle hadn't helped her lose weight. "I
ate a lot of French Fries, because potatoes are vegetables."
(She was serious.)

If you are going to give guidelines to hoi polloi, you need
to give them something simple yet quantitative, which they
can measure. A "serving" is not a quantitative amount, nor
is "1-2 times/day" quantitative; people find ways to warp
such restrictions to allow huge servings, and find ways to
hop across boundaries (a quart of ice cream counts as 1
serving of dairy...).

"H.W. Stockman" <_THIS-link.net> wrote in message
earthlink.net...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the Harvard Food Pyramid...... supporting Brad's
comments here

"Vegetables (in abundance) and Fruits (2 to 3 times)."

That's an amazingly non-quantitative recommendation.

I had a friend who was obese, even though she worked
really hard. Once,

she

Quoted message said:

told me that she had been a vegetarian for years, but that
lifestyle

hadn't

Quoted message said:

helped her lose weight. "I ate a lot of French Fries,
because potatoes are vegetables." (She was serious.)

lol...... natural selection at work?? what do you say

Quoted message said:

If you are going to give guidelines to hoi polloi, you
need to give them something simple yet quantitative, which
they can measure. A "serving" is not a quantitative
amount, nor is "1-2 times/day" quantitative; people

find

Quoted message said:

ways to warp such restrictions to allow huge servings, and
find ways to

hop

Quoted message said:

across boundaries (a quart of ice cream counts as 1
serving of dairy...).

the definition of "a serving" is further in the details of
the pyramid information.... i believe that is why they give
reference to the book as well

Weight watchers, the diabetic association all have defined
"serving sizes" for each fruit/vegetable

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:

Quoted message said:

Brad Sheppard said:

You've just pointed out the huge flaw with the "2PD"
approach. My dinner weighes 2.5 lbs

That's a huge dinner.

If you eat a soup, you can easily eat 2.5 lbs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yet has only 500 calories.

You would only know this if you had a bomb calorimeter,
which I doubt.

It doesn't really matter whether Brad ate 450 or 550
calories.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Eating tons of veggies is healthy by all accounts,

Eating tons of anything is unhealthy.

Quoted message said:

the "2PD" quack diet would prevent that.

Sounds like you are angry about something. What
angers you?

Quoted message said:

It's simple, calories count, not weight of food.

Until people have a practical way of accurately
ascertaining the calories of the food they eat, calories
are useful only in research.

To gain a general idea about the calories in your food isn't
that difficult.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The "2PD" approach doesn't pass the sniff test.

The 2PD approach works.

Of course there will be quite some people for whom 2 lbs of
whatever they fancy to eat is an adequate amount of food.
But that would be purely coincidentally.

Thorsten

--
"Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of
evolution"

(Theodosius Dobzhansky)

"H.W. Stockman" schrieb:

Quoted message said:

"Tiger Lily" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

hsph.harvard.edupyramidOpen ↗
s.html

the Harvard Food Pyramid...... supporting Brad's
comments here

"Vegetables (in abundance) and Fruits (2 to 3 times)."

That's an amazingly non-quantitative recommendation.

I had a friend who was obese, even though she worked
really hard. Once, she told me that she had been a
vegetarian for years, but that lifestyle hadn't helped her
lose weight. "I ate a lot of French Fries, because
potatoes are vegetables." (She was serious.)

It seems that the problem of your friend was not that she
didn't know how to eat of vegetables, but that she
erroneously thought that French Fries count as vegetables.
The same quantity of green beans probably wouldn't have been
a problem.

Thorsten

--
"Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of
evolution"

(Theodosius Dobzhansky)

"Tiger Lily" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de... [...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

helped her lose weight. "I ate a lot of French Fries,
because potatoes

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

vegetables." (She was serious.)

lol...... natural selection at work?? what do you say

She's a very nice person, and normally has good common
sense. Few people understand the terms used in dietic
pronouncements; many are too busy just working to stay
alive.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you are going to give guidelines to hoi polloi, you
need to give them something simple yet quantitative,
which they can measure. A "serving"

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not a quantitative amount, nor is "1-2 times/day"
quantitative; people

find

Quoted message said:

ways to warp such restrictions to allow huge servings,
and find ways to

hop

Quoted message said:

across boundaries (a quart of ice cream counts as 1
serving of

dairy...).

Quoted message said:

the definition of "a serving" is further in the details of
the pyramid information.... i believe that is why they
give reference to the book as well

I don't see specific definitions in that URL. I doubt the
average Joe or Josephine will do a lot of hunting in
footnotes to find out the details.

"Thorsten Schier" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It seems that the problem of your friend was not that she
didn't know how to eat of vegetables, but that she
erroneously thought that French Fries count as vegetables.
The same quantity of green beans probably wouldn't have
been a problem.

That was the point. Diets are often described in terms that
are not familiar to the average person, or the quantities in
the diet are so ambiguous that cheating is too easy.

H.W. Stockman said:

"Tiger Lily" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

hsph.harvard.edupyramidOpen ↗
s.html

the Harvard Food Pyramid...... supporting Brad's
comments here

"Vegetables (in abundance) and Fruits (2 to 3 times)."

That's an amazingly non-quantitative recommendation.

I had a friend who was obese, even though she worked
really hard. Once, she told me that she had been a
vegetarian for years, but that lifestyle hadn't helped her
lose weight. "I ate a lot of French Fries, because
potatoes are vegetables." (She was serious.)

If you are going to give guidelines to hoi polloi, you
need to give them something simple yet quantitative, which
they can measure. A "serving" is not a quantitative
amount, nor is "1-2 times/day" quantitative; people find
ways to warp such restrictions to allow huge servings, and
find ways to hop across boundaries (a quart of ice cream
counts as 1 serving of dairy...).

Enter the 2PD approach :-)

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗