27 May Critical Mass photos

sam said:

I'd never been on one of these before.

I was there. Fantastic weather, and a great turnout.

However, I'd like to raise something.
What is the point of a huge crowd standing outside the
Duke of York pub for half an hour, blocking the roads?
Critical Mass should be all about showing an alternative,
and the point is that bikes are part of the traffic too.
Sorry to say it, simply standing in the road is just
showing off.
On two occasions, this Friday included, I've seen women
ranting and shouting at the cyclists just after the Duke of York.
In both cases they were waiting on buses home, and decided to start
the walk home as the buses weren't arriving.
Hey, I know CM is bound to cause disruption.
But if all people see is a bunch of cyclists standing stationary,
what are they to think?

I welcome a bit of debate here - I'm all for CM, its fun, and
a good laugh.

sam said:

I'd never been on one of these before.

Maybe this isn't the correct forum,
but another point about CM if I may.

The Mass is getting very bad about allowing pedestrians
across the road.
Back in the day, we always made a point about allowing
pedestrians to cross, and in general they were appreciative.

On Friday, the people were hanging back at the crossings.
I and several other people made a point of ushering pedestrians to cross.

The cycle police are now positioning themselves at pedestrian lights,
telling people to stay on the pavement till the cycles have passed.
That's not really what the Mass is about - the aim is not to have
pedestrians [censored] at being held up, nor for them to believe it
is some sort of organised demonstration.

I CAN see that the police have a point - they are desperately trying
to control a mass of people, and prevent the whole thing fragmenting.
And they do the job well, in a decent humour, without having to resort
to powers which I'm sure they have.

But anyway back to the point - pedestrians should not be scared of a bunch
of cyclists. What are we going to do? Ride over them and leave a mass of
wheel tracks up their backs?

"John Hearns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 May 2005 01:42:26 -0700, sam wrote:

But anyway back to the point - pedestrians should not be scared of a bunch
of cyclists.

You've obviously never been a pedestrian in London! I was nearly run down by
"mountain biker" who ignored the red light on a Pelican crossing by London
Bridge the other day as I was had just stepped off the kerb.

As a leisure cyclist myself, I have to say that the behaviour of many urban
cyclists tends to mirror that of car drivers - "I own the road, get out of
my way". It's about time the Police start locking people up for "riding
furiously" or whatever other lusciously phrased hundred year old offence
thay can find that fits. Even fining them for disobeying the Highway Code
would be a start. (Can you get points on your driving licence for road
traffic offences committed whilst cycling?)

Pah! The youth of today...

Smithy said:

It's about time the Police start locking people up for "riding
furiously" or whatever other lusciously phrased hundred year old offence
thay can find that fits.

Plenty of relevant modern day offences such as careless or reckless
cycling, failing to obey a traffic light signal, contravention of
pedestrian crossing regulations etc to call on.

Quoted message said:

Even fining them for disobeying the Highway Code
would be a start.

Disobeying the Highway Code is not an offence. Breaking the law is.

Quoted message said:

(Can you get points on your driving licence for road
traffic offences committed whilst cycling?)

No.

Quoted message said:

Pah! The youth of today...

Reaching that age where your broad mind and narrow waist are swapping
places? ;-)

--
Tony

"A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought" Lord
Peter Wimsey (Dorothy L. Sayers)

John Hearns said:

However, I'd like to raise something.
What is the point of a huge crowd standing outside the
Duke of York pub for half an hour, blocking the roads?
I welcome a bit of debate here - I'm all for CM, its fun, and
a good laugh.

I'd agree fully. I didn't get the point of it either.

It was good also to not go along the bus only bit of Oxford Street
which again upsets those waiting for their buses. And I liked venturing
further East on the Mass than I've been before (though some of the
residents next door to the party wondered what had hit them !) A shame
we didn't do Marylebone Road or Vauxhall Circus (or considering last
week's fatality, Cromwell Road).

I was a bit puzzled by the two species of police on display. There
seemed to be the usual crew in yellow together with a second team in
white. Was it just me, but were the white ones rather more
inexperienced and lacking in humour / rapport with the Mass ? Their
resort to authority "I'm a police officer, so ......" didn't endear me
to them much.

Tim

Smithy said:

offence thay can find that fits. Even fining them for disobeying the
Highway Code would be a start. (Can you get points on your driving licence
for road traffic offences committed whilst cycling?)

You cannot.

But I do agree - some more 'words in the ear' would be appropriate.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:10:28 GMT, "Smithy"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Even fining them for disobeying the Highway Code
would be a start. (Can you get points on your driving licence for road
traffic offences committed whilst cycling?)

No. Or while walking (pedestrians are more likely than cyclists to be
at fault in injury collisions involving them).

Perhaps the problem is simply that we have got so used to the
car-obsessed press evading issues of motorists' responsibility and
deflecting blame onto others that other road users have picked up on
it.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

John Hearns said:

sam said:

I'd never been on one of these before.

I was there. Fantastic weather, and a great turnout.

However, I'd like to raise something.
What is the point of a huge crowd standing outside the
Duke of York pub for half an hour, blocking the roads?
Critical Mass should be all about showing an alternative,
and the point is that bikes are part of the traffic too.
Sorry to say it, simply standing in the road is just
showing off.
On two occasions, this Friday included, I've seen women
ranting and shouting at the cyclists just after the Duke of York.
In both cases they were waiting on buses home, and decided to start
the walk home as the buses weren't arriving.
Hey, I know CM is bound to cause disruption.
But if all people see is a bunch of cyclists standing stationary,
what are they to think?

I welcome a bit of debate here - I'm all for CM, its fun, and
a good laugh.

I was there too, excellent time! On the blue 'bent. Maybe we should meet
up beforehand next month? I met up with some folk from the C+ forum, we
abandoned ship at the pub and went for pancakes. 🙂

Quoted message said:

John Hearns said:

What is the point of a huge crowd standing outside the
Duke of York pub for half an hour, blocking the roads?

I'd agree fully. I didn't get the point of it either.

Me either. Whilst I'm all in favour of making the point that
cyclists are first class road users too, my problem with Critical
Mass is they seem to go out of their way to maximise the obstruction,
which just winds people up. This month I was mostly just tagging
along because I bought a new camera and wanted to play with it....

Quoted message said:

I was a bit puzzled by the two species of police on display. There
seemed to be the usual crew in yellow together with a second team in
white. Was it just me, but were the white ones rather more
inexperienced and lacking in humour / rapport with the Mass ? Their
resort to authority "I'm a police officer, so ......" didn't endear me
to them much.

I wondered the same thing, so I asked one of them. Apparently there
is no real difference, but the "new" kit they are issued with is white.
Which I guess means that the ones in white are newer recruits so maybe
less used to the whole CM thing. Certainly some of them still need to
practice their bike handling skills a bit.

Tie-in with another thread: Got chatting to a guy on a rather nice
looking fixie who did the Meopham 150 on it the other week. Apparently
he enjoyed it but wished he'd gone with a smaller gear for those hills...

(whenever I show up to a CM I always seem to come away with a bad
case of fixie envy)

Pete.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:10:28 GMT, "Smithy"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Even fining them for disobeying the Highway Code
would be a start. (Can you get points on your driving licence for road
traffic offences committed whilst cycling?)

No. Or while walking (pedestrians are more likely than cyclists to be
at fault in injury collisions involving them).

As far as I know there are no specific laws governing how I should walk
along a road so I cannot break them, whereas there are laws relating to the
behaviour of cyclists which quite obviously are broken regularly by some
cyclists. So perhaps there should be some sanction to stop people who cannot
cycle responsibly from cycling at all?.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps the problem is simply that we have got so used to the
car-obsessed press evading issues of motorists' responsibility and
deflecting blame onto others that other road users have picked up on
it.

Perhaps it's more of a case of people simply not following the rules of the
road, for which they should be censured - be they urban warrior cyclist or
white van driver. It's no excuse to say "The big boy in the other corner of
the playground was doing it so I thought I could as well". Individuals
should take responsibility for their own actions, not blame "society" ...or
the press.

Smithy said:

As far as I know there are no specific laws governing how I should walk
along a road so I cannot break them,

There are many such laws.

R.

Smithy said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even fining them for disobeying the Highway Code
would be a start. (Can you get points on your driving licence for road
traffic offences committed whilst cycling?)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No. Or while walking (pedestrians are more likely than cyclists to be
at fault in injury collisions involving them).

Quoted message said:

As far as I know there are no specific laws governing how I should walk
along a road so I cannot break them, whereas there are laws relating to the
behaviour of cyclists which quite obviously are broken regularly by some
cyclists. So perhaps there should be some sanction to stop people who cannot
cycle responsibly from cycling at all?.

There already is. Including fixed penalty notices.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps the problem is simply that we have got so used to the
car-obsessed press evading issues of motorists' responsibility and
deflecting blame onto others that other road users have picked up on
it.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps it's more of a case of people simply not following the rules of the
road, for which they should be censured - be they urban warrior cyclist or
white van driver.

Or car driver - by far the largest group of scofflaws.

Quoted message said:

It's no excuse to say "The big boy in the other corner of
the playground was doing it so I thought I could as well". Individuals
should take responsibility for their own actions, not blame "society" ...or
the press.

Quite so.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

"Richard" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Smithy said:

As far as I know there are no specific laws governing how I should walk
along a road so I cannot break them,

There are many such laws.

Please enlighten me.

in message <[email hidden]>, Smithy

(') said:

As far as I know there are no specific laws governing how I should
walk along a road so I cannot break them, whereas there are laws
relating to the behaviour of cyclists which quite obviously are broken
regularly by some cyclists. So perhaps there should be some sanction
to stop people who cannot cycle responsibly from cycling at all?.

I have to admit I have a certain amount of sympathy with this...

Quoted message said:

Perhaps it's more of a case of people simply not following the rules
of the road, for which they should be censured - be they urban
warrior cyclist or white van driver. It's no excuse to say "The big
boy in the other corner of the playground was doing it so I thought I
could as well". Individuals should take responsibility for their own
actions, not blame "society"

And I definitely agree with that.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his mouth to change feet.
;; of me, by a 'friend'

"Smithy" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

"Richard" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Smithy said:

As far as I know there are no specific laws governing how I should walk
along a road so I cannot break them,

There are many such laws.

Quoted message said:

Please enlighten me.

I don't know the exact words but pedestrians must not:
1) obstruct the highway (either the footway or the carriage way)
2) loiter on a pedestrian crossing
3) be drunk in a public place
4) walk on motoways or other places where walking is prohibited

to quote just a few.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Smithy said:

"Richard" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Smithy said:

As far as I know there are no specific laws governing how I should walk
along a road so I cannot break them,

There are many such laws.

Please enlighten me.

Get drunk, take your clothes off, wave a gun about while shouting
obscenities, then walk along the road through the centre of town.

Enjoy your time in the cells.

John B

John Hearns said:

sam said:

I'd never been on one of these before.

I was there. Fantastic weather, and a great turnout.

However, I'd like to raise something.
What is the point of a huge crowd standing outside the
Duke of York pub for half an hour, blocking the roads?
Critical Mass should be all about showing an alternative,
and the point is that bikes are part of the traffic too.
Sorry to say it, simply standing in the road is just
showing off.
On two occasions, this Friday included, I've seen women
ranting and shouting at the cyclists just after the Duke of York.
In both cases they were waiting on buses home, and decided to start
the walk home as the buses weren't arriving.
Hey, I know CM is bound to cause disruption.
But if all people see is a bunch of cyclists standing stationary,
what are they to think?

I welcome a bit of debate here - I'm all for CM, its fun, and
a good laugh.

Here goes then.

Firstly we are talking about a Friday evening, not normal working
hours. Lots of events hold up traffic and public roads are not just for
getting from A to B. There are processions which last much longer than
CM and often roads are closed to the inconvenience of many. What about
the Notting Hill Carnival for example? Why shouldn't we have a little
street party of our own out of working hours if we feel like it? Its
not very often and it doesn't last very long.

I know there is a common perception, on this newsgroup apparently as
well as elsewhere, that cyclists are second-class road users, who do
all sorts of naughty things they should be ashamed of, but why should
we be denied what others are allowed to enjoy? Why is it OK for a
multitude of motorists to clog up the roads every evening, delaying the
buses, but not OK when it happens for a short time with a group of
cyclists just once a month?

Doug.

Smithy said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As far as I know there are no specific laws governing how I should walk
along a road so I cannot break them,

There are many such laws.

Please enlighten me.

Public Order and Criminal Justice Act 1994 contains a few for starters.

R.

in message <[email hidden]>, Helen Deborah

Vecht (') said:

"Smithy" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

"Richard"
<[email hidden]> wrote
in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Smithy wrote:

> As far as I know there are no specific laws governing how I should
> walk along a road so I cannot break them,

There are many such laws.

Quoted message said:

Please enlighten me.

I don't know the exact words but pedestrians must not:
1) obstruct the highway (either the footway or the carriage way)

Yes, but under precisely the same legislation it is illegal to park a
car - ever, anywhere - on the public road. If we're going to ignore it
for motorists, why should it be applied to pedestrians?

Quoted message said:

2) loiter on a pedestrian crossing

True. But that only applies on the crossing. Step off the crossing onto
the road...

Quoted message said:

3) be drunk in a public place

True. But not specific to roads.

Quoted message said:

4) walk on motoways or other places where walking is prohibited

True.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.