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26x3"/29-er comparison.

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
26 March 2005
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29 March 2005
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onewheeldave
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  1. Recently someone posted in a thread that a 26x3 was pretty similar to a
    29-er, as it's diameter was almost the3 same; someone else disagreed,
    saying that they handle completely different.

    In the past I rode a fair bit with a 29-er (2"-ish tyre, not a 'Big
    Apple'😉 uhtil I started getting a lot of punctures; never fully solved
    the problem and ended up trashing the tyre and inner tube.

    That left me without a 29-er, and I continued unicycling using my trusty
    24x3 muni.

    A bit later I acquired a pair of cut-price 26x3 Gazz's, and decided to
    build a 26" rim up to take them.

    The resulting 26x3 muni became my main (in fact, only) ride for the past
    few months, and I sometimes tried to compare it to the old 29-er, but,
    with it being so long since I'd used it, direct comparison was
    difficult.

    However, I've now got a new 29-er tyre and tube, and went out on it
    today, so I thought I'd post some comments.

    The 29-er is a Nimbus, with a 'Big Apple' slick (2.35"😉 tyre; from other
    peoples posts I had high expectations of this tyre.

    The 26x3 is a Nimbus with a 26"x3 Gazz knobbly tyre.

    Unlike most 29-er riders who seem to prefer 125mm cranks, I use 150mm-
    the same as on the 26x3, so the comparison is a direct one based on
    tyre/wheel size only.

    The 26x3 is heavy- it's a pain to carry it around, and I expect that it
    uses more energy to go up hills etc.

    The 29-er is a bit lighter to pick up.

    For the first few minutes I found the new 29-er to be tricky- I suspect
    that I was overcompensating being used to the mass of the 26x3- turning
    was tricky, and the little micro-turns that are a part of uni riding,
    made me feel as though I was falling off.

    The feeling reminded me of times when, due to slow punctures, the tyre
    lost air and imperceptably became unrideable due to low pressure.

    So I pumped up the tyre and it felt a bit better.

    (I'll mention here that I don't know what tyre pressure I had as the
    tube was a 'Presta' valve, which doesn't work with my track
    pump/pressure guage).

    I rode for about an hour; here's my observations: -

    (bear in mind that I've ridden the 26x3 a lot, and this was the first
    time I'd ridden a 29-er for some time)

    1. The 26x3 feels very, very solid; the lighter 29-er felt less so. I
    don't expect to UPD at all on normal terrain on the 26x3, I was more
    wary with the 29-er. This could well change with more riding.

    2. In terms of speed, there didn't seem to be much difference, which
    seems reasonable given the similar diameters of the wheel/tyres; I
    suspect that, with more riding and therefore confidence with the 29-er,
    I should get more speed due to the lighter wheel/tyre.

    3. On a very short, but extremely steep concrete decline, that I'm
    totally confident (with concentration) on the 26x3, which today was wet
    due to rain; I expected no problems with the 29-er slick, and was
    surprised when the wheel slipped out from under me.

    In fairness to the 29-er though, I did approach it much slower than I
    would on the 26x3, and afterwards, I realised that I'd probably never
    ridden it on the 26x3 when it was wet.

    4. The 26x3 goes pretty much anywhere; primarily I ride on
    roads/concrete, but wet grassy slopes/off-road are no problem with the
    knobbled Gazz. With the 29-er Big Apple, at this point, I had no
    intention of riding on wet grassy slopes, or expectations that it could
    handle such terrain without slipping.

    --------------------------------------

    So, conclusions on day 1 are that the 29-er and 26x3 are fairly similar
    in terms of effective wheel size/speed etc. It will be interesting to
    see how I feel after a couple of weeks of ridng the 29-er.

    --
    onewheeldave - Semi Skilled Unicyclist

    "He's also been known to indulge in a spot of flame juggling - but it's
    the Muni that really fires him up."

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  2. Haha I win!

    --
    TheObieOne3226 - SWAT

    'SWAT Gallery' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/SWAT)
    'SWAT webpage' (singlewheeledattackteam.1hwy.com)
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    \"obie is definately a trend setter, i got in to unicycling because of
    him, and came here because of him\" - kj-52

    \"try not to annoy the great obie, for he is better than us.\" - murde
    mental

    *disclaimer: the above message was not intended to offend anyone. if you
    are offended i can take no responsibility for my actions because i don't
    feel like it. also you are reading an internet newsgroup where not
    everyone will share your same views and beliefs, be able to take
    criticism and post/read threads at your own risk.*
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  3. TheObieOne3226 said:

    *Haha I win! *

    How's that? It's obvious that the two are about the same in terms of
    effective wheel size; the author above notes a number of significant
    differences in ride characteristics, which was my point.

    --
    tholub - Kinetic Sculptor
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  4. Ultimately, both points of view are correct.
    For less-skilled riders every aspect counts.
    For better riders the differences seem to be reduced.

    An observation?
    The highly skilled riders - those that can really ride, haven't posted
    to either one of these threads.

    Reminds me of a saying:

    You can scratch with the chickens or soar with the eagles.

    EXAMPLE: my unicycle idol is Patrick.
    He 'rode across the country' (http://tinyurl.com/3q3nx) on a 24" on
    somewhat "outdated" equipment. His attitude is faaar from the attitudes
    of those where an inch or an ounce matters.

    EXAMPLE: I noticed that better riders like Ryan Atkins can change what
    they ride. Notice how he won second place in the bike trials competition
    on a KH 2005? I'd almost bet it was stock - whereas he could have whined
    about the weight of the KH seat - or that it's not the same unicycle as
    the one he uses in the videos.

    EXAMPLE: Dan Heaton had Primo Tenderizers on his uni. I know that they
    are 1/2 pound heavier - too much weight for the lesser rider. Not only
    was he using the pedals, but there was EXTRA metal welded to them!

    EXAMPLE: I've seen vids of Kris Holm doing extreme trials and urban
    riding on what looks like a 26". I saw a six-foot seat out downward gap
    to the edge of a wall! Did he chose the wrong tool for the job?: I know
    I would have used my feet.

    EXAMPLE: Justin Koshe busts out moves on a 24" that I have only seen
    done elsewhere on a 20" trials. Dude soars! He could complain that the
    wheel is too big and heavy.

    EXAMPLE: jsm is riding a stock 24" nimbus (last I checked). He could
    whine about how the 24" wheel is sooo different from the 20" that it
    impairs his ability. Last I heard, he was picking up level 10 skills!

    EXAMPLE: If I recall correctly, the 24" unicycles were keeping up with
    and exceeding the speeds of Cokers in the unlimited NAUCC 10k race.
    Those 8 riders could have written volumes of books on the differences
    between the 24 and 36 inch wheel - and how they were at a severe
    "disadvantage."

    EXAMPLE: If I recall correctly, the cross-country off-road, down and
    uphill races of the last NAUCC were all won buy someone on a 20". He
    could have complained about pedal strikes or how his uni was vastly
    different than the competing 24"

    EXAMPLE: I could sit here and post examples all day. I've already posted
    more than I started out to.
    My bet is that the whiners will disagree
    and come up with some other excuse why they act like the "Princess and
    the Pea."

    Me personally?
    When the roll is called, I want to be amoung those that wheeled instead
    of whined.

    --
    ChangingLINKS.com - member

    Wishing you Happiness, Joy and Laughter,
    Drew Brown
    'Changing LINKS' (http://www.ChangingLINKS.com)
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  5. I see only one person whining in this thread.

    --
    tholub - Kinetic Sculptor
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  6. I misspoke . . .
    Unless there's a relationship between nit-picking and whining.
    I described nit-picking - please strike "whining" and replace with
    nit-picking.

    Um . . . . thanks for pointing *that* out.

    --
    ChangingLINKS.com - member

    Wishing you Happiness, Joy and Laughter,
    Drew Brown
    'Changing LINKS' (http://www.ChangingLINKS.com)
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  7. The fact that Kris or Ryan can do amazing things is just not relevant to
    the conversation; my point is that, for a given rider, a 24x3 and a 26x3
    are basically interchangable, and a 26x3 and a 29er are not. In fact,
    while I'm sure there are things Ryan could do on my 29er that I can't,
    I'm sure that he would be able to do much more on a 24x3 or 26x3 than he
    can on a 29er.

    In any case, I was not trying to give advice to Ryan (except, perhaps,
    to put more air in his tires when he's doing big gaps so I don't have to
    fix his flats anymore). I was trying to give advice to a presumably
    average rider who wanted useful information. "If you were Kris Holm, it
    wouldn't matter" is not useful information.

    --
    tholub - Kinetic Sculptor
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  8. tholub said:

    *"If you were Kris Holm, it wouldn't matter" is not useful
    information. *

    Correct. That wasn't my point.
    The useful information here is that the presumably average rider can
    take various unicycles,
    (combine them with a good attitude) and "move over mountains."

    Some riders make mountains out of molehills.

    Ultimately, the size difference (like the other examples I listed) DOES
    NOT MATTER:
    It's the rider's attitude that determines whether they will be a
    mountain . . . or a molehill.

    /relevant

    --
    ChangingLINKS.com - member

    Wishing you Happiness, Joy and Laughter,
    Drew Brown
    'Changing LINKS' (http://www.ChangingLINKS.com)
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  9. onewheeldave said:

    I thought I'd post some comments.

    Thanks for posting those. I run a Big Apple 28 (29) x 2.35 on my road
    uni, and a (Duro) 24 x 3 on my main MUni. I do little offroad on the
    Big Apple, but people who have done more have commented that the Big
    Apple is not very suited for that. Your comments seem to confirm that.
    Especially on slanting surfaces and lengthwise ruts, the BA tends to
    drift sideways significantly, something which I also notice on
    sideways slanting roads. Higher pressure helps but that moves it even
    further from the 26 x 3 offroad realm.

    So while diameter-wise the comparison between 26 x 3 and Big Apple is
    not difficult, otherwise they seem to 'desire' different
    circumstances. E.g. I think that most people would agree that the BA
    comes more into its own with shorter cranks.

    It seems as if you subjected both tyres to conditions that favoured
    the 26 x 3 more. For a fair comparison, you should also do a road ride
    on both, pumped up a lot harder and with 125 mm cranks.

    Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
    --
    people who unicycle are shyly exhibitionistic - GILD

  10. Concerning the 'whining/nit-picking' issue; I think that some
    unicyclists don't particularly care about the differences between
    24x3/24x2.6, 26" vs 24" etc, while some do.

    The comparison between 26x3 and 29-er I posted was basically for those
    who are interested in the differences/similarities, and I know from
    previous posts that many are interested.

    I've just seen John Foss's comparison of the 29-er and 26x3 which is
    here:-

    http://tinyurl.com/3pdht

    and it's an excellent post which goes into a lot of detail and is
    perhaps more relevant than mine as it addresses off-road terrain, which
    is what the 26x3 is designed for; it also covers other tyre sizes like
    2.1 and 2.6".

    Klaas bils point about a full comparison requiring riding both with 125
    mm cranks etc, is true; for me I'm not into that full a comparison as I
    spend a limited amount of time riding, and want to stick to equipment
    that I'm used to so I can enjoy those rides.

    The type of riding I do seems to be different to many here- I don't do
    tricks, my off-roading is limited and is all pretty much mild XC; I ride
    mainly on roads/pavements, purely for the joy of riding on one wheel.

    A further complication is that where I live, the road hills are very
    extreme in terms of steepness, this is why I often ride munis
    (24x3/26x3) on roads and have 150mm cranks on my 29-er (rather than the
    more usual 125s, which I tried but found were not much fun on the
    hills).

    So the comparison was posted with all that in mind, and on the
    understanding that much of it won't be relevant to many who ride in
    different circumstances.

    -----------------------

    ***Update***

    Took the Big Apple 29-er out for a night ride, again on the streets.

    Found myself riding very fast, but that's usual for me on a night ride.
    Felt more in control, though still a little awkward, again probably due
    to me over-correcting due to the lower wheel mass of the 29-er.

    I fluffed a free-mount and had to save myself by reaching for a wall,
    which I'm not used to having to do.

    I did see glimmers of the 29-ers potential shining through though,
    feeling that its lighter weight will be an aid on steep climbs and also
    that, once I've got used to not over correcting, what I see now as it's
    'twitchiness' will soon translate into reponsiveness.

    --
    onewheeldave - Semi Skilled Unicyclist

    "He's also been known to indulge in a spot of flame juggling - but it's
    the Muni that really fires him up."

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  11. Done a couple more rides with the BA 29-er, and, today, a run on the
    26x3.

    The 29-er is getting more stable now; it also seems to be suited to
    going faster than I'm used to- I found myself pedalling a quite a rate
    and, on the flats, the thought of giving the shorter 125mm cranks
    another go kept popping into my mind.

    Had a UPD when rolling off a curb, on reflection I think it was due to
    me expecting the 29-er to behave in the same way as the 26x3 on landing-
    it doesn't have the same kind of absorbancy as the fat 3" tyre. That's
    no big problem, it's not a massive difference, and, now I'm aware of it,
    I don't expect it will happen again.

    The BA 29-er is super smooth- even when just pushing the uni along
    before riding it, it's obvious that the rolling resistance is very
    low.

    I'd say that there are plenty of similaqrities between the 29-er and
    26x3; certainly, in the urban environment, two friends with one of each
    would find them fairly compatible to ride with, in terms of speed and
    distance.

    The 29-er is bit faster, and it takes less energy to go a given
    distance.

    The 26x3 has the edge when it comes to variety of terrain it can handle-
    it's fine on grass and off-road stuff, the BA 29-er is best on concrete.

    --
    onewheeldave - Semi Skilled Unicyclist

    "He's also been known to indulge in a spot of flame juggling - but it's
    the Muni that really fires him up."

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