23c or 25c tires

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Kpros
I'm looking for some help with tire choice. I ride about
3000 miles per year and participate in an annual 8 day
charity ride for the Arthritis Foundation. My road bike came
with 700x23 tires. Since I weight in at about 195lbs, I was
wondering if going to 700x25 tires would be a good choice. I
don't do any racing, just training rides for the annual
charity ride.

Any advice about tire width is appreciated.

Go for the 25s. They will last a little longer, be a little more comfortable, but weigh a little more. When I say "a little" I am talking in the range of 10%.
Make sure they will clear your fork, brakes, etc.
While you are at it, consider Avocet FasGrip Carbon 12 Duro 28s.
They cost the same; the "little" becomes more significant.
They clearance issues are also more significant.
Specifications:
http://www.avocet.com/tirepages/carbon12_specs.html

"kpros" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for some help with tire choice. I ride about
3000 miles per year and participate in an annual 8 day
charity ride for the Arthritis Foundation. My road bike
came with 700x23 tires. Since I weight in at about 195lbs,
I was wondering if going to 700x25 tires would be a good
choice. I don't do any racing, just training rides for the
annual charity ride.

There's a chart online in this regard somewhere, but the
reduction in rolling resistance by going from a 25 to a 23
is negligible. For your riding, the bit of extra comfort
you'll be getting with the slightly wider tires is well
worth it. Go with the 25s.

Jim

kpros said:

I'm looking for some help with tire choice. I ride about
3000 miles per year and participate in an annual 8 day
charity ride for the Arthritis Foundation. My road bike
came with 700x23 tires. Since I weight in at about 195lbs,
I was wondering if going to 700x25 tires would be a good
choice. I don't do any racing, just training rides for the
annual charity ride.

That would certainly be an improvement. If your bike has
reasonable tire clearance, I'd suggest going wider, say 28
mm for spending that much time in the saddle.

I'd particularly recommend the Panaracer Rolly Poly or
Avocet FasGrip Duro, see:
sheldonbrown.com622.htmlOpen ↗

Sheldon "Comfort And Durability" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------
---------+
|Pentagon officials believe they have been unable to locate
| |
|Bin Laden because he has found an ideal place to hide out.
| |
| 1 It is easy to get in if you have the money. |
| 2 No one will recognize or remember you. |
| 3 No one will realize that you have disappeared. |
| 4 No one keeps any records of your comings and goings. |
| 5 You have no obligations or responsibilities. |
|Pentagon analysts are still puzzled, as to how Bin Laden |
| found out about the Texas Air National Guard. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------
---+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find
parts shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗
sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Jim Flom said:

There's a chart online in this regard somewhere, but the
reduction in rolling resistance by going from a 25 to a 23
is negligible.

Given identical construction and pressure, that should be an
INCREASE in rolling resistance. See
schwalbe.comindex.plOpen ↗ under "Why do
wide tires roll better than narrow ones?".

Quoted message said:

For your riding, the bit of extra comfort you'll be
getting with the slightly wider tires is well worth it. Go
with the 25s.

Especially if they roll better.

John

"kpros" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for some help with tire choice. I ride about
3000 miles per year and participate in an annual 8 day
charity ride for the Arthritis Foundation. My road bike
came with 700x23 tires. Since I weight in at about 195lbs,
I was wondering if going to 700x25 tires would be a good
choice. I don't do any racing, just training rides for the
annual charity ride.

Any advice about tire width is appreciated.

25 mm tyres have only advantages. The most important for
me is comfort. I like my 25 mm Michelin Pro race tyres
very much.

Lou

Jim Flom said:

There's a chart online in this regard somewhere, but the
reduction in rolling resistance by going from a 25 to a 23
is negligible.

Here are a couple of charts:

terrymorse.comrolres.htmlOpen ↗

or:

bike.terrymorse.comrolres.htmlOpen ↗

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

Sheldon Brown said:

I'd particularly recommend the Panaracer Rolly Poly or
Avocet FasGrip Duro, see:
sheldonbrown.com622.htmlOpen ↗

i have to ask this .. of anyone in particuliar.

i've been getting a much higher number of flats with avocet
fasgrip 25/28mm (wired kevlar version) than with the
vittoria rubino pro 23mm on my commuter. both sets new, same
terrain (idaho, goathead thorn country to be sure but not
currently) but with less miles going to the avocets.

on the vittorias my last flat was early december. on the
avocets i had 2 this past weekend alone. both exterior from
road debris. for a given ride (30 to 60 miles) it seems to
be a 50/50 shot whether i get a flat.

it's driving me nuts. the avocets were fine in minnesota. i
like 'em. but i'm about to switch out to the rubino pros on
that bike as well. anyone out here in goathead thorn country
have any different experiences with avocets? they also seem
to slice (knick?) like the vittoria open corsas.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

Terry Morse said:

Jim Flom said:

There's a chart online in this regard somewhere, but the
reduction in rolling resistance by going from a 25 to a
23 is negligible.

Here are a couple of charts:

terrymorse.comrolres.htmlOpen ↗

or:

bike.terrymorse.comrolres.htmlOpen ↗

my understanding of the hoopla of narrow tires is that it is
centered around aerodynamics not rolling resistance. you
want them to be as narrow as the rims they are mounted on.

i don't think anyone has every disputed that rolling
resistance of narrower tires is higher.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

i've been getting a much higher number of flats with
avocet fasgrip 25/28mm (wired kevlar version) than with
the vittoria rubino pro 23mm on my commuter. both sets
new, same terrain (idaho, goathead thorn country to be
sure but not currently) but with less miles going to the
avocets.

on the vittorias my last flat was early december. on the
avocets i had 2 this past weekend alone. both exterior
from road debris. for a given ride (30 to 60 miles) it
seems to be a 50/50 shot whether i get a flat.

it's driving me nuts. the avocets were fine in minnesota.
i like 'em. but i'm about to switch out to the rubino pros
on that bike as well. anyone out here in goathead thorn
country have any different experiences with avocets? they
also seem to slice (knick?) like the vittoria open corsas.

I doubt this has anything to do with the type of tires, but
I would expect that for punctures by sharp objects, wider
tires would be at slightly greater risk due to the larger
swept area.

Generally, the reduced risk of "snake bite" pinch flats with
wider tires more than compensates for this.

Goat heads are not something we have in New England, and I'm
not familiar with their life cycle, but if they're like
other plant seeds, their distribution will vary according to
the time of year.

Sheldon "No Goats" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------
+
| We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, | or
| rejoice because thorn bushes have roses. | --Abraham
| Lincoln |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find
parts shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗
sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

David Reuteler said:

on the vittorias my last flat was early december. on the
avocets i had 2 this past weekend alone. both exterior
from road debris. for a given ride (30 to 60 miles) it
seems to be a 50/50 shot whether i get a flat.

The Michelin Carbon tires got a very good review here. Also
the Continental GP is a long lasting tire.

Greets, Derk

"David Reuteler" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Terry Morse said:

Jim Flom said:

There's a chart online in this regard somewhere, but
the reduction in rolling resistance by going from a 25
to a 23 is negligible.

Here are a couple of charts:

terrymorse.comrolres.htmlOpen ↗

or:

bike.terrymorse.comrolres.htmlOpen ↗

my understanding of the hoopla of narrow tires is that it
is centered around aerodynamics not rolling resistance.
you want them to be as narrow as the rims they are
mounted on.

And behind the narrow aerodynamic tire that fat downtube of
your oversized Alu frame...

Lou

David Reuteler said:

anyone out here in goathead thorn country have any
different experiences with avocets? they also seem to
slice (knick?) like the vittoria open corsas.

I've been using Avocet 700x25s for a couple of years. I
haven't noticed more or fewer flats with them. Goat heads
are always an issue when they're in season (late Summer -
early Fall), but I only managed one goat head flat last
year. Glass is the real bugaboo, especially during and after
a rain storm.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

On 10 Mar 2004 22:11:29 GMT, David Reuteler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

my understanding of the hoopla of narrow tires is that it
is centered around aerodynamics not rolling resistance. you
want them to be as narrow as the rims they are mounted on.

i don't think anyone has every disputed that rolling
resistance of narrower tires is higher.

Narrow tires are also good for higher pressures. For
sufficiently large values of delta pressure, the narrower of
a given two tires may have lower rolling resistance.

In practice, however, and as it applies to this thread;
120psi goes nicely into many/most 23 and 25 tires, giving
the 25 lower RR (for the same model tire).

BTW, I have 700x23 Hutchinson 'Carbon Comp' tires on one of
my bikes, and 700x25 Serfas 'Seca' on the other, and I
recently realized that they're almost exactly the same
width. I was staring at them both from directly behind,
longing to go for a ride when I couldn't, and noticing how
narrow the 25s looked. So, I grabbed my vernier caliper, and
found that they're almost exactly the same. The 25s weren't
fully inflated, though...maybe they stretch a little with
125psi in them.

When I bought them, I was not as educated about tires as I
am now, and was disappointed not to find something in a 23
at the store. Now that I wouldn't at all mind a 25, I find
that they're effectively 23 (or the Hutchinsons are
effectively 25, I haven't actually measured, just compared).
--
Rick Onanian

Terry Morse said:

Here are a couple of charts:

terrymorse.comrolres.htmlOpen ↗

or:

bike.terrymorse.comrolres.htmlOpen ↗

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

Looks to me, there is no correlation at all between the
rolling resistance and the width of the tire within the
Specialized+Avocet group at any given pressure (ex. @
7kgf/cm^2). The 20C's range from the best to worst with a
few 30C's and 28C's somewhere in the middle. On the other
hand, the wider 26" group is consistently and significantly
worse than the narrower 700c group at the same pressure
(ex. 80psi =
5.6kgf/cmcm). GH

David Reuteler said:

i've been getting a much higher number of flats with
avocet fasgrip
25/28mm (wired kevlar version) than with the vittoria
rubino pro 23mm on my commuter. both sets new, same
terrain (idaho, goathead thorn country to be sure but
not currently) but with less miles going to the
avocets.

I'll bet it's just random fluctuation in broken street
glass. Chance.

I ride on Avocet 23s and have periods of flatting like that;
for me, it's mostly attributable to glass.

I'll add that these tires are the best I've used. They
corner great and wear reasonably well.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:50:20 -0800, "kpros" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for some help with tire choice. I ride about
3000 miles per year and participate in an annual 8 day
charity ride for the Arthritis Foundation. My road bike
came with 700x23 tires. Since I weight in at about 195lbs,
I was wondering if going to 700x25 tires would be a good
choice. I don't do any racing, just training rides for the
annual charity ride.

Any advice about tire width is appreciated.

Is there something about the 23s that you don't like? Hard
to recommend moving to a 25 if you have no real reason.

But since this is Usenet, I won't l et such details stop
me.... For charity rides and non-racing riding, try 25s. The
little extra air cushion is very nice. Although I like 23s
for weekend rides, I do have to adjust to the extra
vibration compared to my commuter's 25s.

Sheldon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David Reuteler said:

i've been getting a much higher number of flats with
avocet fasgrip 25/28mm (wired kevlar version) than with
the vittoria rubino pro 23mm on my commuter. both sets
new, same terrain (idaho, goathead thorn country to be
sure but not currently) but with less miles going to the
avocets.

on the vittorias my last flat was early december. on the
avocets i had 2 this past weekend alone. both exterior
from road debris. for a given ride (30 to 60 miles) it
seems to be a 50/50 shot whether i get a flat.

it's driving me nuts. the avocets were fine in
minnesota. i like 'em. but i'm about to switch out to
the rubino pros on that bike as well. anyone out here in
goathead thorn country have any different experiences
with avocets? they also seem to slice (knick?) like the
vittoria open corsas.

I doubt this has anything to do with the type of tires,
but I would expect that for punctures by sharp objects,
wider tires would be at slightly greater risk due to the
larger swept area.

Generally, the reduced risk of "snake bite" pinch flats
with wider tires more than compensates for this.

Goat heads are not something we have in New England, and
I'm not familiar with their life cycle, but if they're
like other plant seeds, their distribution will vary
according to the time of year.

Sheldon "No Goats" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------
+
| We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, | or
| rejoice because thorn bushes have roses. | --Abraham
| Lincoln |
+-----------------------------------------------------+

Dear Sheldon,

August turns out to be the cruellest[1] month.

From 1996 to 2003, I recorded 169 flats on my daily ride in
Colorado, the vast majority from goat head stickers.

There does seem to be a seasonal rise in flats, roughly
around the summer vacation, and a blesséd break around the
beginning of winter (Sheldon should appreciate the phrase
from Lowell's[2] "For the Union Dead."

If anything refutes astrology, it is the decline in
goatheads during Capricorn (December 22nd to January 10th).
(I always thought that Madame Sosostris was a charlatan.)

Only 169 flats in 8 years strikes me as suspiciously low,
but the explanation is that from 1996 through 1999 I used
thorn-resistant tubes and tire-liners. Only when I
foolishly abandoned them in 2000 did I begin to average 35
flats instead of 7 per year (so far, 8 in 2004 not included
in the table.

Carl Fogel

[1] Eliot's -ll- may be cruel to some gentil parfait [3]
readers, but then Chaucer is no kinder with his
"Aprille."

[2] The double-l's just keep a-comin'. Nice new aquarium.
Nice old bas-relief.

[3] Even more obscure joke--look up the full couplet, which
hardly applies to the anonymous parfait gentil knyght.
Eliot makes folk like me think of footnotes to footnotes
that hardly explain things.

Rick Onanian said:

... BTW, I have 700x23 Hutchinson 'Carbon Comp' tires on
one of my bikes, and 700x25 Serfas 'Seca' on the other,
and I recently realized that they're almost exactly the
same width. I was staring at them both from directly
behind, longing to go for a ride when I couldn't, and
noticing how narrow the 25s looked. So, I grabbed my
vernier caliper, and found that they're almost exactly the
same. The 25s weren't fully inflated, though...maybe they
stretch a little with 125psi in them....

Are the rims for each bike the same width at the bead seat?
The width of a particular tire will vary to a certain extent
depending on the width of the rim it is mounted on.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Carl Fogel said:

Only 169 flats in 8 years strikes me as suspiciously low,
but the explanation is that from 1996 through 1999 I used
thorn-resistant tubes and tire-liners. Only when I
foolishly abandoned them in 2000 did I begin to average 35
flats instead of 7 per year (so far, 8 in 2004 not
included in the table.

I don't think I've gotten more than a dozen flats in a whole
year. What's causing all your flats? I'm just curious...

Also, what kind of thornproof tubes are you using? The ones
with the goo inside?

Matt O.