2004 v. 1998 Litespeed Ultimate frame

JT -- thanks for the quick reply! I guess it is perceived value. I am
6'3", over 210, and ride an aluminum frame right now. I perceive that
a carbon stay would be more absorptive of shock. Perhaps it is
propoganda :-)

Other comments are welcomed!

On 19 Oct 2005 20:48:13 -0700, "TaxesStink" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

1 - carbon stays

Why do you think this is an advantage?

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

In article <[email hidden]>,

TaxesStink said:

I have spent a little time passively looking for a Ti frame. I have
come across a 1998 Litespeed Ultimate frame that is in excellent
condition for a reasonable price with fairly low miles. Assuming there
is nothing wrong w/ the 1998 model, how much better is the 2004/2005
model?

The newer models have several advantages:
1 - carbon stays
2 - improved aerodynamics
3 - improved Ti mfg. technology (??)

Any insight would be greatly appreciated...

Also, is there any scenario where one of you might consider a 1998
model over a new one?

Yes, if it was cheaper.

I'm not kidding,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

On 19 Oct 2005 20:55:38 -0700, "TaxesStink" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I guess it is perceived value. I am
6'3", over 210, and ride an aluminum
frame right now. I perceive that
a carbon stay would be more absorptive of shock.

I find it hard to believe that it actually is. Is there any real
evidence of that? Logically I don't see how it could be. Are you
paying for the "perception" in the hope that you'll be able to re-sell
the bike for more or something?

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Thanks again for replying to my comments and questions about the 1998
Litespeed. There is a guy here locally that has a 1998 Litespeed
Ultimate w/ Campy, Dura Ace, and Ultegra/600 components. The bike is
in great shape, as it has not been ridden in 5 years. It was recently
tuned and rides well -- I still need to do a "real" test ride.

I guess the main goals of my questions were twofold:
1 - is there really any difference between the 1998 model and the
"modern" models
2 - is $800-$1000 a decent price to pay for this?

I have no intention on selling it -- I would be using it.

TaxesStink said:

I have spent a little time passively looking for a Ti frame. I have
come across a 1998 Litespeed Ultimate frame that is in excellent
condition for a reasonable price with fairly low miles. Assuming there
is nothing wrong w/ the 1998 model, how much better is the 2004/2005
model?

The newer models have several advantages:
1 - carbon stays

Not an advantage, a disadvantage to any titanium frame since it makes
it's life finite. 2006 and all the 'blend' litespeeds are gone'

Quoted message said:

2 - improved aerodynamics

Small to insignificant...mostly marketing.

Quoted message said:

3 - improved Ti mfg. technology (??)

Nope, marketeer speak. The older Litespeeds are nice frames.

Quoted message said:

Any insight would be greatly appreciated...

Also, is there any scenario where one of you might consider a 1998
model over a new one?

Thanks so much in advance.

Ti is a wonderful material, lasts forever. No warranty but if it fits
ya, a good choice.

TaxesStink said:

JT -- thanks for the quick reply! I guess it is perceived value. I am
6'3", over 210, and ride an aluminum frame right now. I perceive that
a carbon stay would be more absorptive of shock. Perhaps it is
propoganda :-)

Other comments are welcomed!

Titanium has a wonderful ride, lasts forever. Carbon back ends do
nothing to the ride(carbon does not compress) but make the frame less
reliable over, since the backend is glued in there.

Carbon back ends, like wheels outta boxes, are one of the biggest
ho-haas that marketeers have foisted onto the cycling public.

TaxesStink said:

Thanks again for replying to my comments and questions about the 1998
Litespeed. There is a guy here locally that has a 1998 Litespeed
Ultimate w/ Campy, Dura Ace, and Ultegra/600 components. The bike is
in great shape, as it has not been ridden in 5 years. It was recently
tuned and rides well -- I still need to do a "real" test ride.

I guess the main goals of my questions were twofold:
1 - is there really any difference between the 1998 model and the
"modern" models
2 - is $800-$1000 a decent price to pay for this?

I have no intention on selling it -- I would be using it.

Screamin' good deal. I sold Litespeeds in that era and the Ultimate was
a very nice riding frame. $1000 for the frame only isa good price...for
the whole bike, really good. BUT make sure it ftts ya.

I recently bought a 2005 Ultimate frameset and transferred the parts
off my 2000 Tuscany to it, so basically all that changed was the frame
and fork. I agree with the other posters...The carbon stays don't seem
to offer any advantages that I can perceive. The Tuscany has a bit
more comfortable ride and is a couple of ounces heavier. However, the
'05 Ultimate feels more maneouverable and I definitely can get up steep
hills quicker and with less effort. I imagine the 1998 Ultimate
compares favorably to new Ti bikes in spite of its age.

Pete -- thanks for the reply. I ride a 61cm Bianchi Aluminum and this
is a 61 cm Ultimate. I rode around a parking lot yesterday and needed
to talk it over w/ my wife. I will ask the owner to let me do a decent
short ride (5-6 miles on it). Are there any pointers on fit you might
recommend -- or am I best served to head over to an LBS for further
assistance?

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

TaxesStink said:

Thanks again for replying to my comments and questions about the 1998
Litespeed. There is a guy here locally that has a 1998 Litespeed
Ultimate w/ Campy, Dura Ace, and Ultegra/600 components. The bike is
in great shape, as it has not been ridden in 5 years. It was recently
tuned and rides well -- I still need to do a "real" test ride.

I guess the main goals of my questions were twofold:
1 - is there really any difference between the 1998 model and the
"modern" models
2 - is $800-$1000 a decent price to pay for this?

I have no intention on selling it -- I would be using it.

Screamin' good deal. I sold Litespeeds in that era and the Ultimate was
a very nice riding frame. $1000 for the frame only isa good price...for
the whole bike, really good. BUT make sure it ftts ya.

TaxesStink said:

Thanks again for replying to my comments and questions about the 1998
Litespeed. There is a guy here locally that has a 1998 Litespeed
Ultimate w/ Campy, Dura Ace, and Ultegra/600 components. The bike is
in great shape, as it has not been ridden in 5 years. It was recently
tuned and rides well -- I still need to do a "real" test ride.

I guess the main goals of my questions were twofold:
1 - is there really any difference between the 1998 model and the
"modern" models
2 - is $800-$1000 a decent price to pay for this?

I have no intention on selling it -- I would be using it.

I've enjoyed using my bought-used Litespeed Ti for about three years
now. Custom made, it happens to fit me, too. Fit is about the only
"improvement" needed when you get to this point of lightness, IMHO.

Jeeze. Only $800? If this one is in good shape, and it fits you right,
I think you should give the guy at least $2000 for it. Maybe more, up
to $3200 or so, if the mileage is really low and the component mix
favors the high end, and works ok together, and you get to keep the
Cateye. But, that's up to you guys.

Ahem. Have a nice test ride. "Check closely for damage", as with any
used frame.

Ahh, you might want to bring that lower figure you mentioned, plus a
little, in cash. Soon? --D-y

TaxesStink said:

JT -- thanks for the quick reply! I guess it is perceived value. I am
6'3", over 210, and ride an aluminum frame right now. I perceive that
a carbon stay would be more absorptive of shock.

Taxes -- you know: those things that stink -- pay for roads and bike
lanes ... and the maintenance (or lack) thereof.

See the connection?

Maybe if we maintained our infrastructure better.....
--
Live simply so that others may simply live

Agree, one "negative" of carbon rear stays - usually they add more
weight! Compare an all ti frame with one with the carbon rear end,
you'll see....

TaxesStink said:

I have spent a little time passively looking for a Ti frame. I have
come across a 1998 Litespeed Ultimate frame that is in excellent
condition for a reasonable price with fairly low miles. Assuming there
is nothing wrong w/ the 1998 model, how much better is the 2004/2005
model?

A buddy of mine traded in his '98 or '99 Ultimate for a 2004 Ultimate.
He says the front end is stiffer, since he went from a 1" quill stem to
the 1-1/8" carbon steerer/threadless stem set-up. As far as the rear
end is concerned, I would think that any perceived increase in
stiffness from the carbon stays is probably imagined, since the
Ultimate has always been designed with short, rigid stays to begin
with.
An all-titanium frame is basically indestructible, so buying a used ti
bike is a pretty safe bet. I bought a used '99 Lightspeed Classic
recently, with a LOOK carbon fork and King headset. It was in brand
new condition, and came with a lifetime warranty from Lightspeed. It
cost me $800, and I think I got a good deal. I like the ride better
than all the steel and aluminum frames I have had up to this point. It
requires a quill stem, which is fine with me. I installed a light,
TIG-welded steel stem and it now has just the right amount of front-end
stiffness for me.

Mike Krueger said:

An all-titanium frame is basically indestructible, (snip)

I think I know what you mean (good corrosion resistance?) but: google
"cracked" or "broken" Litespeed, Airborne, or Merlin (they of the rapid
replacement policy). The ones you see in pieces are mostly knobby
bikes, from my brief look, but I know of at least a couple of broken
rear DO's on Ti road frames. Curb hoppers? Well, they break steel DO's,
too.

At least all the early Ti frames didn't all break like the farbon
Kestrels did. Well, maybe not every single one everywhere... --D-y

Quoted message said:

On 19 Oct 2005 20:48:13 -0700, "TaxesStink" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1 - carbon stays

Carbon stays are a marketing advantage.

- [email hidden]

I'd be surprised if Litespeed honored the warranty on a used bike.

"The above warranty applies to Litespeed titanium frames for the
lifetime of the bicycle, ***redeemable only by the original owner.***"

http://www.litespeed.com/2005/warranty.aspx

-N

Llatikcuf said:

I'd be surprised if Litespeed honored the warranty on a used bike.

"The above warranty applies to Litespeed titanium frames for the
lifetime of the bicycle, ***redeemable only by the original owner.***"

http://www.litespeed.com/2005/warranty.aspx

I bought it on ebay from "preownedbikes.com" which is a division of
Litespeed. They take trade-ins, refurbish them at the factory, and
resell them. In my case, the frameset was in new condition, and they
did provide me with a lifetime warranty as the "original" owner.

Sweet! Litespeed takes care of its customers - Excellent warranty
service. I'm always surprised at how many people don't read the
warranty policy. You got a great deal.

-Nate