2-beat kick or pull-buoy faster?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

For those of you with 2-beat kicks in freestyle, have you timed
yourself to see if you were faster swimming whole stroke or with
pull-buoy?

Since a 2 beat kick does not add directly to propulsion, I'm wondering
if the extra stability it gives to the arm pull adds more than the drag
it may increase.

Thanks.

I am faster with a pull-buoy in a workout. Quite a bit faster. I've
never swum race with a pull buoy, though. I suspect there is not much
difference at absolute top speed.

Then you have no kick, which is what Every top sprinter has.

Bob

The phenomenon of swimming faster with a pull bouy is because for some
swimmers, the legs sink w/o it. So, w/o it, they are either dragging
the legs, or kicking desperately to keep them afloat. Neither of these
are efficient. If you swim faster with a pool bouy you need to learn to
swim so that you legs float w/o it just the same as with it. The
strategy is to learn to swim with you lower back arched. An arch in the
lower back creates tension in the hamstring muscles. this prevents your
legs from sinking. The other thing is to focus on keeping your toes
pointing back. If the toes point to the bottom of the pool, they will
want to sink. Try to swim without a pool bouy incorporating these
techniques. In the longrun, it will become easier to swim w/o it, and
you will get faster too.

Andres

Quoted message said:

The phenomenon of swimming faster with a pull bouy is because for some
swimmers, the legs sink w/o it. So, w/o it, they are either dragging
the legs, or kicking desperately to keep them afloat. Neither of these
are efficient. If you swim faster with a pool bouy you need to learn to
swim so that you legs float w/o it just the same as with it. The
strategy is to learn to swim with you lower back arched. An arch in the
lower back creates tension in the hamstring muscles. this prevents your
legs from sinking. The other thing is to focus on keeping your toes
pointing back. If the toes point to the bottom of the pool, they will
want to sink. Try to swim without a pool bouy incorporating these
techniques. In the longrun, it will become easier to swim w/o it, and
you will get faster too.

Andres

I am a whopping 10% slower with a pull buoy than without even though I
have a modified kick. The men I swim with are motorized by their pull
buoys even though they don't appear to have bad swimming position
without. A wetsuit doesn't slow me down, or not by much, but it sure
doesn't make me faster. My best kick, by far, is dolphin, and my worst
is, oddly, backstroke.

ruth kazez

(R S) said:

Then you have no kick, which is what Every top sprinter has.

Nobody said nuthin bout no sprinters.

Quoted post said:

The phenomenon of swimming faster with a pull bouy is because for some
swimmers, the legs sink w/o it. So, w/o it, they are either dragging
the legs, or kicking desperately to keep them afloat. Neither of these
are efficient. If you swim faster with a pool bouy you need to learn to
swim so that you legs float w/o it just the same as with it. The
strategy is to learn to swim with you lower back arched. An arch in the
lower back creates tension in the hamstring muscles. this prevents your
legs from sinking. The other thing is to focus on keeping your toes
pointing back. If the toes point to the bottom of the pool, they will
want to sink. Try to swim without a pool bouy incorporating these
techniques. In the longrun, it will become easier to swim w/o it, and
you will get faster too.

Andres

I swim faster with a pull buoy, but my legs don't sink without it.

Me too. I swim faster with a pull buoy. I think the reason is to do with not
getting tired with kicking, so speed can be maintained better. In our
masters group there are several women who are substantially faster using
pull buoys in training. I am not aware of any men who are. Which is odd, if
the main reason is to do with sinking legs - men's legs usually sink more
than women's.
Pauline

"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted post said:

The phenomenon of swimming faster with a pull bouy is because for some
swimmers, the legs sink w/o it. So, w/o it, they are either dragging
the legs, or kicking desperately to keep them afloat. Neither of these
are efficient. If you swim faster with a pool bouy you need to learn to
swim so that you legs float w/o it just the same as with it. The
strategy is to learn to swim with you lower back arched. An arch in the
lower back creates tension in the hamstring muscles. this prevents your
legs from sinking. The other thing is to focus on keeping your toes
pointing back. If the toes point to the bottom of the pool, they will
want to sink. Try to swim without a pool bouy incorporating these
techniques. In the longrun, it will become easier to swim w/o it, and
you will get faster too.

Andres

I swim faster with a pull buoy, but my legs don't sink without it.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The phenomenon of swimming faster with a pull bouy is because for some
swimmers, the legs sink w/o it. So, w/o it, they are either dragging
the legs, or kicking desperately to keep them afloat. Neither of these
are efficient. If you swim faster with a pool bouy you need to learn to
swim so that you legs float w/o it just the same as with it. The
strategy is to learn to swim with you lower back arched. An arch in the
lower back creates tension in the hamstring muscles. this prevents your
legs from sinking. The other thing is to focus on keeping your toes
pointing back. If the toes point to the bottom of the pool, they will
want to sink. Try to swim without a pool bouy incorporating these
techniques. In the longrun, it will become easier to swim w/o it, and
you will get faster too.

I'm much slower with a pull-buoy, but unfortunately due to a (running
induced) ankle sprain, I have to swim with it at the minute. I find that I
loose three things when using it, in descending order of importance:

- the kick 'guiding me through the roll' - don't know if that's the correct
term
- movement in my hips
- forward propulsion from the kick

Pull-buoys are the work of the devil!

rtk said:

Quoted message said:

The phenomenon of swimming faster with a pull bouy is because for some
swimmers, the legs sink w/o it. So, w/o it, they are either dragging
the legs, or kicking desperately to keep them afloat. Neither of these
are efficient. If you swim faster with a pool bouy you need to learn to
swim so that you legs float w/o it just the same as with it. The
strategy is to learn to swim with you lower back arched. An arch in the
lower back creates tension in the hamstring muscles. this prevents your
legs from sinking. The other thing is to focus on keeping your toes
pointing back. If the toes point to the bottom of the pool, they will
want to sink. Try to swim without a pool bouy incorporating these
techniques. In the longrun, it will become easier to swim w/o it, and
you will get faster too.
Andres

I am a whopping 10% slower with a pull buoy than without even though I
have a modified kick. The men I swim with are motorized by their pull
buoys even though they don't appear to have bad swimming position
without. A wetsuit doesn't slow me down, or not by much, but it sure
doesn't make me faster. My best kick, by far, is dolphin, and my worst
is, oddly, backstroke.

ruth kazez

I think this is evidence of the importance in body shape in swimming.
The pullbouy, for your very, very slim frame, actually adds drag and
slows you down. For me, the "sideways" TI swimming style is no
advantage because I'm shaped more like a cylinder than like a popsickle
stick--it seems to be the popsickle stick people who benefit from
swimming on their narrow little sides.
Madelaine

Quoted message said:

The phenomenon of swimming faster with a pull bouy is because for some
swimmers, the legs sink w/o it. So, w/o it, they are either dragging
the legs, or kicking desperately to keep them afloat. Neither of these
are efficient. If you swim faster with a pool bouy you need to learn to
swim so that you legs float w/o it just the same as with it. The
strategy is to learn to swim with you lower back arched. An arch in the
lower back creates tension in the hamstring muscles. this prevents your
legs from sinking. The other thing is to focus on keeping your toes
pointing back. If the toes point to the bottom of the pool, they will
want to sink. Try to swim without a pool bouy incorporating these
techniques. In the longrun, it will become easier to swim w/o it, and
you will get faster too.

Andres

I swim way faster with a pullbouy, but my legs donot sink without one.
Rather, they float more, which is not quite the same as sinking.
Madelaine