2.5 years old, bicycle?

Quoted post said:

My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old.  In the
next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
having a bicycle.  The question:  what kind?  Generally speaking I
avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
to the 2 year old.  Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

TIA

Dan

http://www.earlyrider.com/

I have no direct experience with them, but I might try with my number
3 in a while.

My other son learned on a 12" wheeled BMX style bike when he as 3.
Avoid training wheels at all costs. Some dept-store 12" wheeled bike
have a super high bottom bracket, which should be avoided. Some kids
bikes come with much too tall gearing, and a rear sproket change is
called for. Hand brakes are to be avoided. Adjsuting the bearings on a
new kids' bike is a good idea, as they often are WAY too tight.

Good luck!

Joseph

email hidden said:

Quoted post said:

My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old.  In the
next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
having a bicycle.  The question:  what kind?  Generally speaking I
avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
to the 2 year old.  Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

Quoted message said:

TIA

Quoted message said:

Dan

http://www.earlyrider.com/

I have no direct experience with them, but I might try with my number
3 in a while.

My other son learned on a 12" wheeled BMX style bike when he as 3.
Avoid training wheels at all costs. Some dept-store 12" wheeled bike
have a super high bottom bracket, which should be avoided. Some kids
bikes come with much too tall gearing, and a rear sproket change is
called for. Hand brakes are to be avoided. Adjsuting the bearings on a
new kids' bike is a good idea, as they often are WAY too tight.

Good luck!

Joseph

Cool link, thanks for the heads up. A pushbike hadn't even crossed my
mind, but it makes sense.

Why avoid training wheels? There's the obvious aspect of learning
balance, but it seems like if the kid is too young to balance it on
his own the training wheels would get him on the bike sooner, no? I
guess with a pushbike he can work on balance while pushing himself
along, which could be beneficial. I've just never heard a strong anti-
training wheels perspective in the past, so I'm curious on the
reasoning.

Any tips from your 3 year old you'd care to share on the learning
curve?

Quoted post said:

On Feb 4, 9:49 am, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

On Feb 4, 2:43 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old.  In the
next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
having a bicycle.  The question:  what kind?  Generally speakingI
avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
to the 2 year old.  Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

TIA

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dan

Quoted message said:

http://www.earlyrider.com/

Quoted message said:

I have no direct experience with them, but I might try with my number
3 in a while.

Quoted message said:

My other son learned on a 12" wheeled BMX style bike when he as 3.
Avoid training wheels at all costs. Some dept-store 12" wheeled bike
have a super high bottom bracket, which should be avoided. Some kids
bikes come with much too tall gearing, and a rear sproket change is
called for. Hand brakes are to be avoided. Adjsuting the bearings on a
new kids' bike is a good idea, as they often are WAY too tight.

Quoted message said:

Good luck!

Quoted message said:

Joseph

Cool link, thanks for the heads up.  A pushbike hadn't even crossed my
mind, but it makes sense.

Why avoid training wheels?  There's the obvious aspect of learning
balance, but it seems like if the kid is too young to balance it on
his own the training wheels would get him on the bike sooner, no?  I
guess with a pushbike he can work on balance while pushing himself
along, which could be beneficial.  I've just never heard a strong anti-
training wheels perspective in the past, so I'm curious on the
reasoning.

Any tips from your 3 year old you'd care to share on the learning
curve?

My oldest learned quite quickly when he was 3. We didn't use training
wheels. He wore a jeans jacket that gave me a good grasp on the back.
I walked/jogged alongside steering him via his jacket. This meant he
had to learn to keep the bike under him. It took about 45 minutes.
Gloves makes a big difference because if the kid falls, they don't
scrape up their palms, which in addition to being painful, does not
help most kids' enthusiasm.

Here he is about 1 week after getting the bike working on his spin:

http://arbitrary.org/iagobike.mov
And 2 years later near 5th birthday, he'd moved up to 16" wheels. I
think a suitably sized bike is very important:
http://arbitrary.org/jump.JPG

My daughter took a while longer to learn. This I attibute to the
trikes she used at her pre-school. Steering a trike or a bike with
training wheels is completely different from steering a bike, and
needs to be unlearned. That takes time and makes the kid apprehensive
about the bike because it doesn't work the way they expect it to.

It has been suggested that a small bike with the cranks removed is
also a good way to get the kid scooting around, and I may do that with
my youngest who is only 1.5 now (so I have a while to decide) but I'm
pretty sure I'll hear it about "why does my bike have the pedals taken
off? Put them on!" but with one of those Easyrider bikes that won't be
an issue. I'm a softy I guess, but I also don't want there to be any
conflict around the whole bike riding concept.

Joseph

email hidden said:

Quoted post said:

On Feb 4, 9:49 am, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 4, 2:43 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old. In the
> next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
> having a bicycle. The question: what kind? Generally speaking I
> avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
> to the 2 year old. Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
> for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> TIA

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Dan

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.earlyrider.com/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have no direct experience with them, but I might try with my number
3 in a while.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My other son learned on a 12" wheeled BMX style bike when he as 3.
Avoid training wheels at all costs. Some dept-store 12" wheeled bike
have a super high bottom bracket, which should be avoided. Some kids
bikes come with much too tall gearing, and a rear sproket change is
called for. Hand brakes are to be avoided. Adjsuting the bearings on a
new kids' bike is a good idea, as they often are WAY too tight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Good luck!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Cool link, thanks for the heads up. A pushbike hadn't even crossed my
mind, but it makes sense.

Quoted message said:

Why avoid training wheels? There's the obvious aspect of learning
balance, but it seems like if the kid is too young to balance it on
his own the training wheels would get him on the bike sooner, no? I
guess with a pushbike he can work on balance while pushing himself
along, which could be beneficial. I've just never heard a strong anti-
training wheels perspective in the past, so I'm curious on the
reasoning.

Quoted message said:

Any tips from your 3 year old you'd care to share on the learning
curve?

My oldest learned quite quickly when he was 3. We didn't use training
wheels. He wore a jeans jacket that gave me a good grasp on the back.
I walked/jogged alongside steering him via his jacket. This meant he
had to learn to keep the bike under him. It took about 45 minutes.
Gloves makes a big difference because if the kid falls, they don't
scrape up their palms, which in addition to being painful, does not
help most kids' enthusiasm.

Here he is about 1 week after getting the bike working on his spin:

http://arbitrary.org/iagobike.mov
And 2 years later near 5th birthday, he'd moved up to 16" wheels. I
think a suitably sized bike is very important:http://arbitrary.org/jump.JPG

My daughter took a while longer to learn. This I attibute to the
trikes she used at her pre-school. Steering a trike or a bike with
training wheels is completely different from steering a bike, and
needs to be unlearned. That takes time and makes the kid apprehensive
about the bike because it doesn't work the way they expect it to.

It has been suggested that a small bike with the cranks removed is
also a good way to get the kid scooting around, and I may do that with
my youngest who is only 1.5 now (so I have a while to decide) but I'm
pretty sure I'll hear it about "why does my bike have the pedals taken
off? Put them on!" but with one of those Easyrider bikes that won't be
an issue. I'm a softy I guess, but I also don't want there to be any
conflict around the whole bike riding concept.

Joseph- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Very cool, and thank you for taking the time to give such a thoughtful
response. Your son is way too cute, I can only hope Wes is jumping
with such enthusiasm at such a young age. His father is a phenomenal
BMXer who has been featured in a video or two, so he's got the genes
for it. This is gonna be fun, I can feel it.

I still remember the first time I rode 2 wheels alone. I was at my
Uncle Manuel's house, and my dad was holding the seat to keep me
upright while I rode. He decided I had enough balance and let me go,
without me knowing. I made it about 100 feet (that's a guesstimate
from a childhood memory, so it's likely way off) without any issue.
The second I realized I was doing it on my own I got scared and
crashed. I had the bug, though, and got right back on it. Haven't
looked back since.

At what age would you start to consider the pedal-less bike? Wes is
a hair over 2 now, and it seems like he might already be able to
handle that, but I don't want to come in too strong too early and
spook him out of interest.

Quoted post said:

On Feb 4, 12:09 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

On Feb 4, 4:24 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 4, 9:49 am, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2:43 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old.  In the
> > next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
> > having a bicycle.  The question:  what kind?  Generally speaking I
> > avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
> > to the 2 year old.  Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
> > for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > TIA

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Dan

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.earlyrider.com/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I have no direct experience with them, but I might try with my number
> 3 in a while.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> My other son learned on a 12" wheeled BMX style bike when he as 3.
> Avoid training wheels at all costs. Some dept-store 12" wheeled bike
> have a super high bottom bracket, which should be avoided. Some kids
> bikes come with much too tall gearing, and a rear sproket change is
> called for. Hand brakes are to be avoided. Adjsuting the bearings ona
> new kids' bike is a good idea, as they often are WAY too tight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Good luck!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Joseph

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cool link, thanks for the heads up.  A pushbike hadn't even crossed my
mind, but it makes sense.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why avoid training wheels?  There's the obvious aspect of learning
balance, but it seems like if the kid is too young to balance it on
his own the training wheels would get him on the bike sooner, no?  I
guess with a pushbike he can work on balance while pushing himself
along, which could be beneficial.  I've just never heard a strong anti-
training wheels perspective in the past, so I'm curious on the
reasoning.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any tips from your 3 year old you'd care to share on the learning
curve?

Quoted message said:

My oldest learned quite quickly when he was 3. We didn't use training
wheels. He wore a jeans jacket that gave me a good grasp on the back.
I walked/jogged alongside steering him via his jacket. This meant he
had to learn to keep the bike under him. It took about 45 minutes.
Gloves makes a big difference because if the kid falls, they don't
scrape up their palms, which in addition to being painful, does not
help most kids' enthusiasm.

Quoted message said:

Here he is about 1 week after getting the bike working on his spin:

Quoted message said:

http://arbitrary.org/iagobike.mov
And 2 years later near 5th birthday, he'd moved up to 16" wheels. I
think a suitably sized bike is very important:http://arbitrary.org/jump.JPG

Quoted message said:

My daughter took a while longer to learn. This I attibute to the
trikes she used at her pre-school. Steering a trike or a bike with
training wheels is completely different from steering a bike, and
needs to be unlearned. That takes time and makes the kid apprehensive
about the bike because it doesn't work the way they expect it to.

Quoted message said:

It has been suggested that a small bike with the cranks removed is
also a good way to get the kid scooting around, and I may do that with
my youngest who is only 1.5 now (so I have a while to decide) but I'm
pretty sure I'll hear it about "why does my bike have the pedals taken
off? Put them on!" but with one of those Easyrider bikes that won't be
an issue. I'm a softy I guess, but I also don't want there to be any
conflict around the whole bike riding concept.

Quoted message said:

Joseph- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Very cool, and thank you for taking the time to give such a thoughtful
response.  Your son is way too cute, I can only hope Wes is jumping
with such enthusiasm at such a young age.  His father is a phenomenal
BMXer who has been featured in a video or two, so he's got the genes
for it.  This is gonna be fun, I can feel it.

I still remember the first time I rode 2 wheels alone.  I was at my
Uncle Manuel's house, and my dad was holding the seat to keep me
upright while I rode.  He decided I had enough balance and let me go,
without me knowing.  I made it about 100 feet (that's a guesstimate
from a childhood memory, so it's likely way off) without any issue.
The second I realized I was doing it on my own I got scared and
crashed.  I had the bug, though, and got right back on it.  Haven't
looked back since.

At what age would you start to consider the pedal-less bike?   Wes is
a hair over 2 now, and it seems like he might already be able to
handle that, but I don't want to come in too strong too early and
spook him out of interest.

That Earlyrider Lite bike says the seat goes down to 29cm from the
ground. So if the kid can straddle it, go for it! Non-summer is a good
time too because they can have a bit more clothes on to help reduce
scrapes.

If dad and a few other folks are riding BMX bikes around and the kid
has one of those, I'm sure it will go quickly and the kid will like
it. If others ar einvolved and it is a general goof-off session for
everyone, the kids see it as playing, not as some task.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old. In the
next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
having a bicycle. The question: what kind? Generally speaking I
avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
to the 2 year old. Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

TIA

Dan

Dan, I would agree that a mart bike is bad, but on the other hand, if
the son is two years old, he is growing like a weed, so why spend too
much money on something that the kid is going to literally out grow very
quickly. Buy a mart bike and just make sure that you give it a good
looking over to make sure there are no obvious safety issues with it.

Quoted message said:

My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old. In the
next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
having a bicycle. The question: what kind? Generally speaking I
avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
to the 2 year old. Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

TIA

Dan

2 or 2.5 years old sounds early, how about age 3 or 4? some friends had
their child on a tricycle for quite a while when his legs were so short
he needed wooden blocks on the pedals, sometime after his 3rd birthday
he was on a bicycle without training wheels. The training wheels caused
more problems than they solved, BTW, he became a bit psychologically
dependent on them.

email hidden said:

Quoted post said:

On Feb 4, 12:09 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 4, 4:24 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Feb 4, 9:49 am, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > On Feb 4, 2:43 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old.  Inthe
> > > next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
> > > having a bicycle.  The question:  what kind?  Generally speaking I
> > > avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
> > > to the 2 year old.  Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what tolook
> > > for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > TIA

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > Dan

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >http://www.earlyrider.com/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > I have no direct experience with them, but I might try with my number
> > 3 in a while.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > My other son learned on a 12" wheeled BMX style bike when he as 3.
> > Avoid training wheels at all costs. Some dept-store 12" wheeled bike
> > have a super high bottom bracket, which should be avoided. Some kids
> > bikes come with much too tall gearing, and a rear sproket change is
> > called for. Hand brakes are to be avoided. Adjsuting the bearings on a
> > new kids' bike is a good idea, as they often are WAY too tight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Good luck!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Joseph

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Cool link, thanks for the heads up.  A pushbike hadn't even crossed my
> mind, but it makes sense.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Why avoid training wheels?  There's the obvious aspect of learning
> balance, but it seems like if the kid is too young to balance it on
> his own the training wheels would get him on the bike sooner, no?  I
> guess with a pushbike he can work on balance while pushing himself
> along, which could be beneficial.  I've just never heard a strong anti-
> training wheels perspective in the past, so I'm curious on the
> reasoning.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Any tips from your 3 year old you'd care to share on the learning
> curve?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My oldest learned quite quickly when he was 3. We didn't use training
wheels. He wore a jeans jacket that gave me a good grasp on the back.
I walked/jogged alongside steering him via his jacket. This meant he
had to learn to keep the bike under him. It took about 45 minutes.
Gloves makes a big difference because if the kid falls, they don't
scrape up their palms, which in addition to being painful, does not
help most kids' enthusiasm.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here he is about 1 week after getting the bike working on his spin:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://arbitrary.org/iagobike.mov
And 2 years later near 5th birthday, he'd moved up to 16" wheels. I
think a suitably sized bike is very important:http://arbitrary.org/jump.JPG

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My daughter took a while longer to learn. This I attibute to the
trikes she used at her pre-school. Steering a trike or a bike with
training wheels is completely different from steering a bike, and
needs to be unlearned. That takes time and makes the kid apprehensive
about the bike because it doesn't work the way they expect it to.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It has been suggested that a small bike with the cranks removed is
also a good way to get the kid scooting around, and I may do that with
my youngest who is only 1.5 now (so I have a while to decide) but I'm
pretty sure I'll hear it about "why does my bike have the pedals taken
off? Put them on!" but with one of those Easyrider bikes that won't be
an issue. I'm a softy I guess, but I also don't want there to be any
conflict around the whole bike riding concept.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Joseph- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Very cool, and thank you for taking the time to give such a thoughtful
response.  Your son is way too cute, I can only hope Wes is jumping
with such enthusiasm at such a young age.  His father is a phenomenal
BMXer who has been featured in a video or two, so he's got the genes
for it.  This is gonna be fun, I can feel it.

Quoted message said:

I still remember the first time I rode 2 wheels alone.  I was at my
Uncle Manuel's house, and my dad was holding the seat to keep me
upright while I rode.  He decided I had enough balance and let me go,
without me knowing.  I made it about 100 feet (that's a guesstimate
from a childhood memory, so it's likely way off) without any issue.
The second I realized I was doing it on my own I got scared and
crashed.  I had the bug, though, and got right back on it.  Haven't
looked back since.

Quoted message said:

At what age would you start to consider the pedal-less bike?   Wes is
a hair over 2 now, and it seems like he might already be able to
handle that, but I don't want to come in too strong too early and
spook him out of interest.

That Earlyrider Lite bike says the seat goes down to 29cm from the
ground. So if the kid can straddle it, go for it! Non-summer is a good
time too because they can have a bit more clothes on to help reduce
scrapes.

If dad and a few other folks are riding BMX bikes around and the kid
has one of those, I'm sure it will go quickly and the kid will like
it. If others ar einvolved and it is a general goof-off session for
everyone, the kids see it as playing, not as some task.

Joseph- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We should take him to the skatepark with our 20"s, now that you
mention it. That's a sure way to show that this is play and not work!

Just A User said:

Quoted message said:

My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old.  In the
next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
having a bicycle.  The question:  what kind?  Generally speaking I
avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
to the 2 year old.  Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

Quoted message said:

TIA

Quoted message said:

Dan

Dan, I would agree that a mart bike is bad, but on the other hand, if
the son is two years old, he is growing like a weed, so why spend too
much money on something that the kid is going to literally out grow very
quickly. Buy a mart bike and just make sure that you give it a good
looking over to make sure there are no obvious safety issues with it.

I have given that aspect some thought as well. At 2 he very well may
not ever notice the difference between a real bike and a BST. I know
just about nothing when it comes to raising kids, so I'm trying to get
a feel from those that have been there and done that. Thanks for your
input.

mark said:

Quoted message said:

My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old.  In the
next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
having a bicycle.  The question:  what kind?  Generally speaking I
avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
to the 2 year old.  Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

Quoted message said:

TIA

Quoted message said:

Dan

2 or 2.5 years old sounds early, how about age 3 or 4? some friends had
their child on a tricycle for quite a while when his legs were so short
he needed wooden blocks on the pedals, sometime after his 3rd birthday
he was on a bicycle without training wheels. The training wheels caused
more problems than they solved, BTW, he became a bit psychologically
dependent on them.

I like the thought of starting him early as reasonable. Why do you
feel 2 or 2.5 is too early?

Thanks for the tidbit on the training wheels. That is a discussion I
will certainly have with his dad.

Quoted message said:

I like the thought of starting him early as reasonable. Why do you
feel 2 or 2.5 is too early?

Thanks for the tidbit on the training wheels. That is a discussion I
will certainly have with his dad.

I spent quite a few years teaching children to ski, and "starting him as
early as reasonable" was all too frequently a recipe for disaster. The
two and three year olds that I encountered simply did not have the
balance motor skills, muscle development and attention span that I
associate with cycling.

Young children are quite top-heavy, which makes balancing on 2 wheels
(or on skis, etc.) more difficult than it is for an older child.

I would suggest getting a 2 year old a tricycle that fits well, letting
him play with it as much as he wants to, when he wants to, and sometime
around age 3 1/2 to 4 he or she should be ready for a bicycle.

mark

Quoted post said:

On Feb 4, 12:37 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

On Feb 4, 6:25 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 4, 12:09 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 4:24 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > On Feb 4, 9:49 am, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > On Feb 4, 2:43 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old.  In the
> > > > next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
> > > > having a bicycle.  The question:  what kind?  Generally speaking I
> > > > avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
> > > > to the 2 year old.  Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
> > > > for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

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> > > > TIA

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> > > > Dan

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> > >http://www.earlyrider.com/

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> > > I have no direct experience with them, but I might try with my number
> > > 3 in a while.

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> > > My other son learned on a 12" wheeled BMX style bike when he as 3.
> > > Avoid training wheels at all costs. Some dept-store 12" wheeled bike
> > > have a super high bottom bracket, which should be avoided. Some kids
> > > bikes come with much too tall gearing, and a rear sproket changeis
> > > called for. Hand brakes are to be avoided. Adjsuting the bearings on a
> > > new kids' bike is a good idea, as they often are WAY too tight.

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> > > Good luck!

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> > > Joseph

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> > Cool link, thanks for the heads up.  A pushbike hadn't even crossed my
> > mind, but it makes sense.

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> > Why avoid training wheels?  There's the obvious aspect of learning
> > balance, but it seems like if the kid is too young to balance it on
> > his own the training wheels would get him on the bike sooner, no?  I
> > guess with a pushbike he can work on balance while pushing himself
> > along, which could be beneficial.  I've just never heard a strong anti-
> > training wheels perspective in the past, so I'm curious on the
> > reasoning.

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> > Any tips from your 3 year old you'd care to share on the learning
> > curve?

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> My oldest learned quite quickly when he was 3. We didn't use training
> wheels. He wore a jeans jacket that gave me a good grasp on the back..
> I walked/jogged alongside steering him via his jacket. This meant he
> had to learn to keep the bike under him. It took about 45 minutes.
> Gloves makes a big difference because if the kid falls, they don't
> scrape up their palms, which in addition to being painful, does not
> help most kids' enthusiasm.

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> Here he is about 1 week after getting the bike working on his spin:

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>http://arbitrary.org/iagobike.mov
> And 2 years later near 5th birthday, he'd moved up to 16" wheels. I
> think a suitably sized bike is very important:http://arbitrary.org/jump.JPG

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> My daughter took a while longer to learn. This I attibute to the
> trikes she used at her pre-school. Steering a trike or a bike with
> training wheels is completely different from steering a bike, and
> needs to be unlearned. That takes time and makes the kid apprehensive
> about the bike because it doesn't work the way they expect it to.

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> It has been suggested that a small bike with the cranks removed is
> also a good way to get the kid scooting around, and I may do that with
> my youngest who is only 1.5 now (so I have a while to decide) but I'm
> pretty sure I'll hear it about "why does my bike have the pedals taken
> off? Put them on!" but with one of those Easyrider bikes that won't be
> an issue. I'm a softy I guess, but I also don't want there to be any
> conflict around the whole bike riding concept.

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> Joseph- Hide quoted text -

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> - Show quoted text -

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Very cool, and thank you for taking the time to give such a thoughtful
response.  Your son is way too cute, I can only hope Wes is jumping
with such enthusiasm at such a young age.  His father is a phenomenal
BMXer who has been featured in a video or two, so he's got the genes
for it.  This is gonna be fun, I can feel it.

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I still remember the first time I rode 2 wheels alone.  I was at my
Uncle Manuel's house, and my dad was holding the seat to keep me
upright while I rode.  He decided I had enough balance and let me go,
without me knowing.  I made it about 100 feet (that's a guesstimate
from a childhood memory, so it's likely way off) without any issue.
The second I realized I was doing it on my own I got scared and
crashed.  I had the bug, though, and got right back on it.  Haven't
looked back since.

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At what age would you start to consider the pedal-less bike?   Wes is
a hair over 2 now, and it seems like he might already be able to
handle that, but I don't want to come in too strong too early and
spook him out of interest.

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That Earlyrider Lite bike says the seat goes down to 29cm from the
ground. So if the kid can straddle it, go for it! Non-summer is a good
time too because they can have a bit more clothes on to help reduce
scrapes.

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If dad and a few other folks are riding BMX bikes around and the kid
has one of those, I'm sure it will go quickly and the kid will like
it. If others ar einvolved and it is a general goof-off session for
everyone, the kids see it as playing, not as some task.

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We should take him to the skatepark with our 20"s, now that you
mention it.  That's a sure way to show that this is play and not work!

That would be a perfect place. Provided of course it isn't too
crowded. Little kids like to emulate, and if they can see what they
are supposed to be doing watching everyone else play on their bikes,
instead of sitting alone on one with a grown up saying all sorts of
confusing things, I think that will work well.

As for the age, as long as the kid is big enough to be able to scoot
around, age doesn't matter. I know some kids who have been ice skating
since <2.

Joseph

mark said:

Quoted message said:

I like the thought of starting him early as reasonable.  Why do you
feel 2 or 2.5 is too early?

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the tidbit on the training wheels.  That is a discussion I
will certainly have with his dad.

I spent quite a few years teaching children to ski, and "starting him as
early as reasonable" was all too frequently a recipe for disaster. The
two and three year olds that I encountered simply did not have the
balance motor skills, muscle development and attention span that I
associate with cycling.

Young children are quite top-heavy, which makes balancing on 2 wheels
(or on skis, etc.) more difficult than it is for an older child.

I would suggest getting a 2 year old a tricycle that fits well, letting
him play with it as much as he wants to, when he wants to, and sometime
around age 3 1/2 to 4 he or she should be ready for a bicycle.

mark

Cross country skiing and general goofing off with cross country skis
works fine for small kids. My kids' pre-school even had a reserved
space for parking all the kids' skis. Playing around is a great way to
teach balance. But like anyting with small kids, they have to want to
do it.

Downhill skiing is too structured IMO. You are supposed to go in one
direction, the gear is super heavy and cumbersome, and it is difficult
for the adults to move around to be available to help when necessary.

I agree 2 might be too young for a bike, but I think a trike might
spoil things later on. That's why I kind of like the idea of the
Earlyriders. Also it separates learning to balance and steer from
pedalling. And in th ebeginning, it is just walking with the bike
between the kids legs.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

email hidden said:

Quoted post said:

My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old. In the
next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
having a bicycle. The question: what kind? Generally speaking I
avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
to the 2 year old. Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?
TIA
Dan

http://www.earlyrider.com/

I have no direct experience with them, but I might try with my number
3 in a while.

My other son learned on a 12" wheeled BMX style bike when he as 3.
Avoid training wheels at all costs. Some dept-store 12" wheeled bike
have a super high bottom bracket, which should be avoided. Some kids
bikes come with much too tall gearing, and a rear sproket change is
called for. Hand brakes are to be avoided. Adjsuting the bearings on a
new kids' bike is a good idea, as they often are WAY too tight.

Good luck!

Joseph

Cool link, thanks for the heads up. A pushbike hadn't even crossed my
mind, but it makes sense.

Why avoid training wheels? There's the obvious aspect of learning
balance, but it seems like if the kid is too young to balance it on
his own the training wheels would get him on the bike sooner, no? I
guess with a pushbike he can work on balance while pushing himself
along, which could be beneficial. I've just never heard a strong anti-
training wheels perspective in the past, so I'm curious on the
reasoning.

Any tips from your 3 year old you'd care to share on the learning
curve?

He may be gone, but his words are still with us:
<http://sheldonbrown.com/teachride.html>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

Just A User said:

Quoted message said:

My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old. In the
next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
having a bicycle. The question: what kind? Generally speaking I
avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
to the 2 year old. Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

TIA

Dan

Dan, I would agree that a mart bike is bad, but on the other hand, if
the son is two years old, he is growing like a weed, so why spend too
much money on something that the kid is going to literally out grow very
quickly. Buy a mart bike and just make sure that you give it a good
looking over to make sure there are no obvious safety issues with it.

The sensible solution would be a program where one could buy a used but
high quality bicycle, with a trade-in credit for the next largest size.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

aka Joseph Santaniello said:

mark said:

Quoted message said:

I like the thought of starting him early as reasonable. Why do you
feel 2 or 2.5 is too early?
Thanks for the tidbit on the training wheels. That is a discussion I
will certainly have with his dad.

I spent quite a few years teaching children to ski, and "starting him as
early as reasonable" was all too frequently a recipe for disaster. The
two and three year olds that I encountered simply did not have the
balance motor skills, muscle development and attention span that I
associate with cycling.

Young children are quite top-heavy, which makes balancing on 2 wheels
(or on skis, etc.) more difficult than it is for an older child.

I would suggest getting a 2 year old a tricycle that fits well, letting
him play with it as much as he wants to, when he wants to, and sometime
around age 3 1/2 to 4 he or she should be ready for a bicycle.

mark

Cross country skiing and general goofing off with cross country skis
works fine for small kids. My kids' pre-school even had a reserved
space for parking all the kids' skis. Playing around is a great way to
teach balance. But like anyting with small kids, they have to want to
do it.

Downhill skiing is too structured IMO. You are supposed to go in one
direction, the gear is super heavy and cumbersome, and it is difficult
for the adults to move around to be available to help when necessary.

I agree 2 might be too young for a bike, but I think a trike might
spoil things later on. That's why I kind of like the idea of the
Earlyriders. Also it separates learning to balance and steer from
pedalling. And in th ebeginning, it is just walking with the bike
between the kids legs.

How about the smallest size of Razor type scooter to teach balance?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

On Feb 5, 3:51 am, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

aka Joseph Santaniello said:

mark said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> I like the thought of starting him early as reasonable.  Why do you
> feel 2 or 2.5 is too early?
> Thanks for the tidbit on the training wheels.  That is a discussion I
> will certainly have with his dad.
I spent quite a few years teaching children to ski, and "starting him as
early as reasonable" was all too frequently a recipe for disaster. The
two and three year olds that I encountered simply did not have the
balance motor skills, muscle development and attention span that I
associate with cycling.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Young children are quite top-heavy, which makes balancing on 2 wheels
(or on skis, etc.) more difficult than it is for an older child.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would suggest getting a 2 year old a tricycle that fits well, letting
him play with it as much as he wants to, when he wants to, and sometime
around age 3 1/2 to 4 he or she should be ready for a bicycle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mark

Quoted message said:

Cross country skiing and general goofing off with cross country skis
works fine for small kids. My kids' pre-school even had a reserved
space for parking all the kids' skis. Playing around is a great way to
teach balance. But like anyting with small kids, they have to want to
do it.

Quoted message said:

Downhill skiing is too structured IMO. You are supposed to go in one
direction, the gear is super heavy and cumbersome, and it is difficult
for the adults to move around to be available to help when necessary.

Quoted message said:

I agree 2 might be too young for a bike, but I think a trike might
spoil things later on. That's why I kind of like the idea of the
Earlyriders. Also it separates learning to balance and steer from
pedalling. And in th ebeginning, it is just walking with the bike
between the kids legs.

How about the smallest size of Razor type scooter to teach balance?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

Those are a face-plant waiting to happen IMO. They are twitchy
compared to even a small bike too, but if the kids thinks it is fun,
I'm sure it would work.

Joseph

On Feb 5, 3:50 am, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Just A User said:

Quoted message said:

My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old.  In the
next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
having a bicycle.  The question:  what kind?  Generally speaking I
avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
to the 2 year old.  Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

TIA

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dan

Quoted message said:

Dan, I would agree that a mart bike is bad, but on the other hand, if
the son is two years old, he is growing like a weed, so why spend too
much money on something that the kid is going to literally out grow very
quickly. Buy a mart bike and just make sure that you give it a good
looking over to make sure there are no obvious safety issues with it.

Quoted message said:

The sensible solution would be a program where one could buy a used but
high quality bicycle, with a trade-in credit for the next largest size.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

Or just have lots of kids to get your money's worth! ;-)

My bike club has a similar loan program for road bikes for older
kids.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

On Feb 5, 3:50 am, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Just A User said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> My best friends older son is just a hair over 2 years old. In the
> next few months I expect him to get to the point where he could enjoy
> having a bicycle. The question: what kind? Generally speaking I
> avoid *mart bikes like the plague, but my LBS doesn't have much geared
> to the 2 year old. Any ideas, suggestions, or tips on what to look
> for when purchasing a first bike for this young lad?
> TIA
> Dan
Dan, I would agree that a mart bike is bad, but on the other hand, if
the son is two years old, he is growing like a weed, so why spend too
much money on something that the kid is going to literally out grow very
quickly. Buy a mart bike and just make sure that you give it a good
looking over to make sure there are no obvious safety issues with it.

The sensible solution would be a program where one could buy a used but
high quality bicycle, with a trade-in credit for the next largest size.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

Or just have lots of kids to get your money's worth! ;-)

My bike club has a similar loan program for road bikes for older
kids.

Joseph

We bought our first kids bike from a neighbor after her son outgrew it,
taught both my son and daughter on it (now 14 & 19), then my wife gave
it to a co-worker. Decent kids stuff -- bikes, baby seats, trailers,
trailer-bikes, always has good resale options or plenty of grateful
takers if you want to go that way.

My *favorite* kids bike thing was a trailer-bike. We used that way more
than any of the little bikes. Many people offered to buy it, but even
when my daughter outgrew it at 9, she refused to let me sell it (I
didn't want to, anyway). It still hangs in the garage, with a
substantial tire worn down to the cords.