15G vs. 14/15 DB

good question! best answerable thru your experience after commiting to
one or the other.
15's are faster fersure.
if the 15's snap then you can try 14's that are untenable in any
presentation of engineering but have more metal in them than 15's.
common sense and logic point to using 15's
lube the hub holes/spoke bends-head seats with finish line teflon wax
dry lube both sides allowing to set up in sun before moving. cover hub
spoke mount flange both sides wih the FLTWDL as a dirt cover

use 16's
16's gotta be better than 15's!

16/17 now here's a great spoke!!

SYJ said:

Rather than going the 14/15 DS, 14/16 everywhere else route, I was
thinking about 15/16 front & NDS, 15G DS rear.

Butted spokes tend to be stronger because they are strong on the ends
(where spokes fail due to fatigue) but thin and elastic in the middle,
which reduces cyclic stresses and increases fatigue life. A straight
15g spoke won't do that.

If you want to save money, you could use 1.8/1.6mm spokes on the front
and ND rear, but I still think 2.0/1.8or1.7mm spokes would be better
for the DS.

You want double-butted spokes because they are more elastic and do not
stress the rim as much when going over potholes, etc. I use 14/15 in
the rear (i'm 220 lbs) and 15/16 up front to save some weight, 36H, on
my low-flange hubs, 3X. Making one wheel double-butted and another
unbutted makes no sense to me, either double-butted is better, or it
isn't.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

SYJ said:

Current RBR conventional wisdom seems to point toward avoiding (to
point away from?) 14G (straight) spokes due to their relative
inelasticity as compared with 14/15G. But what about 15G (straight)?
I just stumbled upon a NOS pair of Mavic Reflex (blue) rims that will
match up nicely with a pair of DA hubs I have lying around, and wanted
to build up a pair of lightweight special event wheels on the cheap.
Rather than going the 14/15 DS, 14/16 everywhere else route, I was
thinking about 15/16 front & NDS, 15G DS rear. These will not be daily
riders (thats what my 32 3x 14/15 wheels are for), but rather would be
reserved for 'special' rides with lots of climbs (plus, they'll give me
a good place to hang my seldom used 12-25 casette) - probably less than
1k/year.

TIA,
SYJ

nothing wrong with your "15/16 front & NDS, 15G DS rear" combo in terms
of lateral elasticity, but why bother with straight gauge? use 14/15 ds
rear and do the job properly.

Donald Gillies wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

I use 14/15 in the rear (i'm 220 lbs) and 15/16 up front to save some weight, 36H, on
my low-flange hubs, 3X.

[snip]

Dear Don,

Sorry, but sometimes I can't help calculating things like this . . .

A 220lb or 100kg rider weighs 100,000 grams.

An 18lb bike weighs 8,181 grams.

Using 36 15/16 spokes instead of 14/15 spokes up front saves about 25
grams, judging by claims of 261 versus 311 grams for 64 pieces here:

http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/20/cat20.htm?987

So . . .108,156 / 108,181 = 0.9997689

That's a 0.02311% weight reduction.

Bicycling is a sport where 220lb riders think about how thinner spokes
save weight.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

I have a pair that were 15ga st 3 x 32 hole, mavic grays, built in 1982 by
Tim Parker, that are still good and true, even after a crash that tore the
treat off of a clement criterium. I weighed at the time 170, now 200.

"SYJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Current RBR conventional wisdom seems to point toward avoiding (to
point away from?) 14G (straight) spokes due to their relative
inelasticity as compared with 14/15G. But what about 15G (straight)?
I just stumbled upon a NOS pair of Mavic Reflex (blue) rims that will
match up nicely with a pair of DA hubs I have lying around, and wanted
to build up a pair of lightweight special event wheels on the cheap.
Rather than going the 14/15 DS, 14/16 everywhere else route, I was
thinking about 15/16 front & NDS, 15G DS rear. These will not be daily
riders (thats what my 32 3x 14/15 wheels are for), but rather would be
reserved for 'special' rides with lots of climbs (plus, they'll give me
a good place to hang my seldom used 12-25 casette) - probably less than
1k/year.

TIA,
SYJ

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Donald Gillies wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

I use 14/15 in the rear (i'm 220 lbs) and 15/16 up front to save

some weight, 36H, on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my low-flange hubs, 3X.

[snip]

Dear Don,

Sorry, but sometimes I can't help calculating things like this . . .

A 220lb or 100kg rider weighs 100,000 grams.

An 18lb bike weighs 8,181 grams.

Using 36 15/16 spokes instead of 14/15 spokes up front saves about 25
grams, judging by claims of 261 versus 311 grams for 64 pieces here:

http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/20/cat20.htm?987

So . . .108,156 / 108,181 = 0.9997689

That's a 0.02311% weight reduction.

Bicycling is a sport where 220lb riders think about how thinner spokes
save weight.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

I weigh 235 Lbs. I weighed 175 Lbs. when I raced 30+ years ago. I'm
concerned with strong components that are not going to break at a
critical moment or constantly need adjustment or replacement. How much
does 1 beer fart weigh?

Lycra was the downfall of the manly art of cycling and the beginning of
the boutique era of competitive sports.

Chas.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

SYJ said:

Current RBR conventional wisdom seems to point toward avoiding (to
point away from?) 14G (straight) spokes due to their relative
inelasticity as compared with 14/15G. But what about 15G (straight)?
I just stumbled upon a NOS pair of Mavic Reflex (blue) rims that will
match up nicely with a pair of DA hubs I have lying around, and wanted
to build up a pair of lightweight special event wheels on the cheap.
Rather than going the 14/15 DS, 14/16 everywhere else route, I was
thinking about 15/16 front & NDS, 15G DS rear. These will not be daily
riders (thats what my 32 3x 14/15 wheels are for), but rather would be
reserved for 'special' rides with lots of climbs (plus, they'll give me
a good place to hang my seldom used 12-25 casette) - probably less than
1k/year.

It is best to have a difference in diameter between the
middle span and the ends. The ends stretch less during the
duty cycle reducing aggravation of the built in stress at
the spoke elbows.

--
Michael Press

SYJ said:

Current RBR conventional wisdom seems to point toward avoiding (to
point away from?) 14G (straight) spokes due to their relative
inelasticity as compared with 14/15G. But what about 15G (straight)?
I just stumbled upon a NOS pair of Mavic Reflex (blue) rims that will
match up nicely with a pair of DA hubs I have lying around, and wanted
to build up a pair of lightweight special event wheels on the cheap.
Rather than going the 14/15 DS, 14/16 everywhere else route, I was
thinking about 15/16 front & NDS, 15G DS rear. These will not be daily
riders (thats what my 32 3x 14/15 wheels are for), but rather would be
reserved for 'special' rides with lots of climbs (plus, they'll give me
a good place to hang my seldom used 12-25 casette) - probably less than
1k/year.

TIA,
SYJ

I am with Gene on this. the greater the number, the better the spoke. I
would go for a 17 or 18. 17-18 ought to be the bestest.

he'll be back asking why his mavic rims shattered

Quoted message said:

SYJ said:

Current RBR conventional wisdom seems to point toward avoiding (to
point away from?) 14G (straight) spokes due to their relative
inelasticity as compared with 14/15G. But what about 15G (straight)?
I just stumbled upon a NOS pair of Mavic Reflex (blue) rims that will
match up nicely with a pair of DA hubs I have lying around, and wanted
to build up a pair of lightweight special event wheels on the cheap.
Rather than going the 14/15 DS, 14/16 everywhere else route, I was
thinking about 15/16 front & NDS, 15G DS rear. These will not be daily
riders (thats what my 32 3x 14/15 wheels are for), but rather would be
reserved for 'special' rides with lots of climbs (plus, they'll give me
a good place to hang my seldom used 12-25 casette) - probably less than
1k/year.

TIA,
SYJ

I am with Gene on this. the greater the number, the better the spoke. I
would go for a 17 or 18. 17-18 ought to be the bestest.

I don't think a thinner spoke would be better. I had 15G spokes on my
OEM rear wheel start to fail after a year of commuting with some double
track (185lb rider, Specialized Rockhopper ~32lbs) so I bought a wheel
with 14/15 spokes and used the wheel failure as an excuse to upgrade to
disk brakes. I would go with the thicker spokes if you're doing
anything rough with the bike.

John

SYJ said:

I just stumbled upon a NOS pair of Mavic Reflex (blue) rims that will
match up nicely with a pair of DA hubs I have lying around, and wanted
to build up a pair of lightweight special event wheels on the cheap.
Rather than going the 14/15 DS, 14/16 everywhere else route, I was
thinking about 15/16 front & NDS, 15G DS rear. These will not be daily
riders (thats what my 32 3x 14/15 wheels are for), but rather would be

I regularly use 15g for the front and 14/15 DS and 15/16 NDS. I don't
break spokes and weigh close to 200 lbs. Tension is 100 kgF front and
DS.

Michael Press said:

It is best to have a difference in diameter between the
middle span and the ends. The ends stretch less during the
duty cycle reducing aggravation of the built in stress at
the spoke elbows.

--
Michael Press

Ah...this makes sense. Thanks!

SYJ