12 hour TT yesterday

in message <[email hidden]>, andrew carver

(') said:

But not done by me.....

Supported my friend who is a decent TTer and tri-athlete. It was the
first he'd finished after dropping out on his first attempt two years
ago around Chester. I wasn't too impressed at having to get up at 4:30
on a Sunday morning, but that's friendship for you.

It was around Holme on Spalding Moor in East Yorkshire so fairly flat
although there was a strong Northerly breeze and it was freezing cold
and drizzly for the first 4 / 5 hours.

Humbled by the age of many of the competitors the oldest of which was
70, whom I am pretty sure finished. Slightly depressing that it seems
to be a dying sport though....

What was the course, and how does a 12 hour time trial differ from an
audax?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; gif ye hes forget our auld plane Scottis quhilk your mother lerit you,
; in tymes cuming I sall wryte to you my mind in Latin, for I am nocht
; acquyntit with your Southeron
;; Letter frae Ninian Winyet tae John Knox datit 27t October 1563

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

how does a 12 hour time trial differ from an audax?

Isn't that one obvious? 12H TT is go as far as you can in 12 hours. Audax is
do a distance at an average speed above a certain minimum and below a
certain maximum. (Is the latter true for all?)

IIRC the course will be big loops to get the majority of the time, then
little ones at the end so you stand a chance of being close to the right
place when your time runs out.

(is the 12H time calculated on how long you did your last lap divvied up
suitably, so you end up doing more than 12H?)

cheers,
clive

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What was the course, and how does a 12 hour time trial differ from an
audax?

The event was the Elmet CRC 12hr on course which is up at Pocklington.
Basically the event is to see how far you can cycle in a 12hr period. The
winner was Kevin Dawson of Planet X RT who did 291.5 miles. Dave Green of
RAF CC came second doing 252.28 miles. Indeed there was a 70 year old, one
Terence Cater of Scarborough Paragon CC who did 212.28 miles.

There's also 24hr TTs

Cheers, helen s

andrew carver <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Humbled by the age of many of the competitors the oldest of which was 70,
: whom I am pretty sure finished. Slightly depressing that it seems to be a
: dying sport though....

That's TT'ing for you. It's a vicious circle. The vets like "fast" courses
(ie ones were you get sucked along by trucks).

This scares others off. So organisers have to cater to vets.

Comparing TT'ing with the sucess the new wave of UK based sportif rides and
I think it's hard to argue that there's not the riders around. It's just that
riding on the A1 isn't pleasant or safe, and you won't get a fast time without
doing that. And UK TT'ing is all about times, times, times, and oh, did I mention
times.

Sigh.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

andrew carver <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Humbled by the age of many of the competitors the oldest of which was
70,
: whom I am pretty sure finished. Slightly depressing that it seems to be
a
: dying sport though....

That's TT'ing for you. It's a vicious circle. The vets like "fast" courses
(ie ones were you get sucked along by trucks).

This scares others off. So organisers have to cater to vets.

Comparing TT'ing with the sucess the new wave of UK based sportif rides
and
I think it's hard to argue that there's not the riders around. It's just
that
riding on the A1 isn't pleasant or safe, and you won't get a fast time
without
doing that. And UK TT'ing is all about times, times, times, and oh, did I
mention
times.

Sigh.

Arthur

Why Arthur, anyone would think you have a certain amount of bigotry against
TTs

Nathan loves doing them. I enjoy letting him do them. The ages I know of
doing TTs go from about 15 up to err.... over 80. Most riders seem to be in
their 40s IMO

Lots of riders take part. Main season from April - October, and Nathan could
be doing an open event pretty much every weekend. As it is, even without
travelling outside of East Anglia, he does do an event pretty much most
weekends. Oh, and as it's a *time* trial, yes, it's about times. The clue is
there in the name ;-) There are, however, SPOCO events (SPOrting COourses)
which are not 'fast' courses but have more turns & twists in, and these form
part of their own competiton series. The points you get depend on your
placing in the events, not just pure times. Indeed I know lots of riders who
positively enjoy doing these sporting courses.

TTing is a valuable form of competitive cycling in the UK, where the number
of road races is *tiny* and in some areas, such as Norfolk, a road race is
as common as hens' teeth.

Cheers, helen s

Arthur Clune came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

And UK TT'ing is all about times, times, times,
and oh, did I mention times.

Doesn't the name TIME Trial give you a clue?

If you don't like them, there's an easy solution. 😉

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Jon Senior came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Paul - censored said:

Doesn't the name TIME Trial give you a clue?

It would be plausible to have a time trial series that was all about the
courses. Simon's club run off-road time trials where (Presumably) the
difference in times between the courses must vary enormously. The point
is that the current time trials don't (AIUI) incorporate the nature of
the course into the points scheme, so the way to get maximum points is
to ride fast courses. These courses are inevitably on "fast" roads like
the A1, and put the riders at greater risk. I think this is why not
everyone thinks they're such a brilliant idea.

OK, I understand now.

Slight misunderstanding on my part. 😉

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Paul - censored said:

Doesn't the name TIME Trial give you a clue?

It would be plausible to have a time trial series that was all about the
courses. Simon's club run off-road time trials where (Presumably) the
difference in times between the courses must vary enormously. The point
is that the current time trials don't (AIUI) incorporate the nature of
the course into the points scheme, so the way to get maximum points is
to ride fast courses. These courses are inevitably on "fast" roads like
the A1, and put the riders at greater risk. I think this is why not
everyone thinks they're such a brilliant idea.

Jon

Jon Senior said:

Paul - censored said:

Doesn't the name TIME Trial give you a clue?

It would be plausible to have a time trial series that was all about the
courses. Simon's club run off-road time trials where (Presumably) the
difference in times between the courses must vary enormously. The point
is that the current time trials don't (AIUI) incorporate the nature of
the course into the points scheme, so the way to get maximum points is
to ride fast courses. These courses are inevitably on "fast" roads like
the A1, and put the riders at greater risk. I think this is why not
everyone thinks they're such a brilliant idea.

The Fife evening time trials run a points competition. It runs on a
number of courses and points are by position so the time is irrelevant
(for that competition). You have to compete on a number of courses to
be eligible for the overall.

Personally I would be quite happy to see the fast times moved to the
track and TT's become a sporting course, arbitrary length. In fact it
would be better to set the courses by time rather than distance so,
like golf, you have a 'par' to aim for. On your average course the aim
would be to beat 30 mins (novice) 25mins (keen) or 20 mins (pro). And
just like golf there would be easier and harder ones to deal with.

Not sure I can see it catching on amongst the more 'traditional' TT'ers
though. But who cares, they can stay riding up and down the A1. The
rest of us can go and test our mettle against ourselves and the terrain
rather than the absoluteness of the clock.

...d

wafflycat <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote:

: The event was the Elmet CRC 12hr on course which is up at Pocklington.
: Basically the event is to see how far you can cycle in a 12hr period. The
: winner was Kevin Dawson of Planet X RT who did 291.5 miles. Dave Green of
: RAF CC came second doing 252.28 miles.

That's a huge difference from first to second!

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

wafflycat <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote:

: Why Arthur, anyone would think you have a certain amount of bigotry against
: TTs

I have a certain amount of bigotry against the way TT's are run in this country.

I'm doing three TT's this *week*. I can't be that against them can I?

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

wafflycat <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote:

: TTing is a valuable form of competitive cycling in the UK, where the number
: of road races is *tiny* and in some areas, such as Norfolk, a road race is
: as common as hens' teeth.

I couldn't agree more. They are good and fun. But then I see riders racing on
the A1, the A19 or the A64 and hear people I ride with saying "be nice to
ride a real 10" (comparing a slightly rolling 10 with the A64) and dispair.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

Arthur Clune said:

wafflycat <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote:

: TTing is a valuable form of competitive cycling in the UK, where the number
: of road races is *tiny* and in some areas, such as Norfolk, a road race is
: as common as hens' teeth.

I couldn't agree more. They are good and fun. But then I see riders racing on
the A1, the A19 or the A64 and hear people I ride with saying "be nice to
ride a real 10" (comparing a slightly rolling 10 with the A64) and dispair.

I haven't ridden an open TT since the only 50 I ever did; the control
was packing up as I arrived (2'40"😉 they don't welcome time wasters IMO

in message <[email hidden]>, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk ('') said:

Paul - censored said:

Doesn't the name TIME Trial give you a clue?

It would be plausible to have a time trial series that was all about
the courses. Simon's club run off-road time trials where (Presumably)
the difference in times between the courses must vary enormously.

It does! Also, the difference between the best and worst times for a
given course tends to be higher off road. Kirroughtrie tomorrow!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Das Internet is nicht fuer gefingerclicken und giffengrabben... Ist
nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen. Das mausklicken sichtseeren
keepen das bandwit-spewin hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und
watchen das cursorblinken. -- quoted from the jargon file

in message <[email hidden]>, "wafflycat"

waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk ('') said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What was the course, and how does a 12 hour time trial differ from an
audax?

The event was the Elmet CRC 12hr on course which is up at Pocklington.
Basically the event is to see how far you can cycle in a 12hr period.

Is, this, like, round and round in circles?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and there was nothing we could do but wait
patiently for the RAC to arrive.

in message <[email hidden]>, Arthur Clune

(') said:

wafflycat <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote:

: The event was the Elmet CRC 12hr on course which is up at
: Pocklington. Basically the event is to see how far you can cycle in a
: 12hr period. The winner was Kevin Dawson of Planet X RT who did 291.5
: miles. Dave Green of RAF CC came second doing 252.28 miles.

That's a huge difference from first to second!

And the first was 24.25 mph, which is well more than I can do on a ten.
The second was 21 mph, which is still more than I can do on a ten...
ouch!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; in faecibus sapiens rheum propagabit

MartinM said:

Arthur Clune said:

wafflycat <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote:

: TTing is a valuable form of competitive cycling in the UK, where the number
: of road races is *tiny* and in some areas, such as Norfolk, a road race is
: as common as hens' teeth.

I couldn't agree more. They are good and fun. But then I see riders racing on
the A1, the A19 or the A64 and hear people I ride with saying "be nice to
ride a real 10" (comparing a slightly rolling 10 with the A64) and dispair.

I haven't ridden an open TT since the only 50 I ever did; the control
was packing up as I arrived (2'40"😉 they don't welcome time wasters IMO

I liked 50s - never got under the hour for a 25 but managed 1'58" for a 50!
All the best
Dan Gregory

Quoted message said:

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

andrew carver <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

: Slightly depressing that it seems to be
: dying sport though....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And UK TT'ing is all about times, times, times, and oh, did I
mention times.

Quoted message said:

Why Arthur, anyone would think you have a certain amount of bigotry against
TTs

Quoted message said:

Nathan loves doing them. I enjoy letting him do them. The ages I know of
doing TTs go from about 15 up to err.... over 80. Most riders seem to be in
their 40s IMO

Remind us how many Under 18s rode in the last open TT your offspring
competed in?

Err, one wasn't it?
And how many veterans?

Its become an 'old man's sport', with little future and dying out.
The only question is, will it be banned before the events cease being
run.

IMO they have no place on the public road in their present form.
The only redeeming factor are the tea wagons ;-)

And yes I've ridden many, from 10's to 24hrs on the trike, and still
hold several club records.

Its sad but Arthur is right, time is of paramount importance even to the
detriment of safety.

John B

Dan Gregory said:

MartinM wrote:

Quoted message said:

I liked 50s - never got under the hour for a 25 but managed 1'58" for a 50!

I think my miserable performance(s) convinced me that TT'ing was not
for me, Audax has increased my enjoyment immeasurably; what annoyed me
a bit was being told "so you're retiring?" we still live in a culture
of TT's/ RR's being the only real cycling among many club riders. That
needs to change.