12-27: Ultegra vs DA

I have had two very noisy 12-27 DuraAce cassettes, but never a problem with an Ultegra. The noise
drove me nuts; I thought it was coming from somewhere else in the drivetrain, but it was the last
three cogs (largest ones) that had slightly-loose rivets holding them to the body.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Donald Specker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Looking for one of these cassettes. Any reason not to get a DA? I recall something about
durability due to titanium cogs, but I don't know if

that's

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a real concern or not. I'm not going to ride a million miles either.

Thanks.

x-no-archive:yes

Quoted message said:

I have had two very noisy 12-27 DuraAce cassettes, but never a problem

with

Quoted message said:

an Ultegra. The noise drove me nuts; I thought it was coming from

somewhere

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else in the drivetrain, but it was the last three cogs (largest ones) that had slightly-loose
rivets holding them to the body.

--Mike--

Noise drives me crazy, too. I like the bike to be silent except when I come up behind someone
walking on the bike path, and then I coast so they'll hear the bike (no bell on my road bike).
And yet, some guys I know seem not to be bothered by creaks and rhythmic noises coming from
their bikes....

Pat in TX

"Donald Specker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for one of these cassettes. Any reason not to get a DA? I recall something about
durability due to titanium cogs, but I don't know if

that's

Quoted message said:

a real concern or not. I'm not going to ride a million miles either.

Thanks.

Aside from costing more than twice as much and lasting not as long, a Dura Ace cassette is fine.
Seriously, the only benefit to the Dura Ace is a very small savings in weight. But the penalty is a
huge (x2) cost difference and the Ti cogs don't last as long. So the Ultegra cassette will do
everything the Dura Ace cassette will do, for half the price and a fairly longer life.

Out of curiosity, can the cogs be removed from the carrier? I woul like to separate the 16 17 cogs
from its carrier.

Thanks, Claude

No. Buy 105 (although there is no 105 12-27 - which is unfortunate, as I would like to build a
13-27, but Shimano don't make it easy).

Kyle

"Chluu907" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Out of curiosity, can the cogs be removed from the carrier? I woul like

to

Quoted message said:

separate the 16 17 cogs from its carrier.

Thanks, Claude

Chluu907 said:

Quoted message said:

No. Buy 105 (although there is no 105 12-27 - which is unfortunate, as=

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would like to build a 13-27, but Shimano don't make it easy).

Quoted message said:

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I have a 13-25 cassette and a 12=

-27

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cassette. All we need to do is free the 17-16 cluster on the 13-25 cas=

sette

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and we're in business. I checked several other cassettes 11-21, 12-23,=

but all

Quoted message said:

have the 17-16 cogs on a carrier. Really stinks because some of us don=

't

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bother with the 12 at all unless we're on a descent.

My recollection is that the 16-17 pairs are not on a carrier, but that=20 they're just plain
sprockets rivetted together around a spacer for=20 easier installation. You can just drill or grind
the rivets to separate =

them, though I don't see any point in separating them, since you will=20 find it very difficult to
find a 16.5 tooth sprocket to put in between=20 them...

See: sheldonbrown.orgcarapace 2.htmlOpen ↗ for an expos=E9 o= f=20 the Fractional Cog
Conspiracy.

Sheldon "Custom K7" Brown +----------------------------------------+
| The race is not always to the swift, | nor the battle to the strong | -but that's the way to bet.
| | --Damon Runyon |
+----------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Remove the 16/17 and purchase a loose 17 tooth cog from Branford or another vendor of loose cogs.

"Chluu907" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No. Buy 105 (although there is no 105 12-27 - which is unfortunate, as I would like to build a
13-27, but Shimano don't make it easy).

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I have a 13-25 cassette and a 12-27 cassette. All we need to
do is free the 17-16 cluster on the 13-25

cassette

Quoted message said:

and we're in business. I checked several other cassettes 11-21, 12-23,

but all

Quoted message said:

have the 17-16 cogs on a carrier. Really stinks because some of us don't bother with the 12 at all
unless we're on a descent.

Claude

Chluu907 said:

Quoted message said:

No. Buy 105 (although there is no 105 12-27 - which is unfortunate, as I would like to build a
13-27, but Shimano don't make it easy).

Quoted message said:

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I have a 13-25 cassette and a 12-27 cassette. All we need to
do is free the 17-16 cluster on the 13-25 cassette and we're in business. I checked several other
cassettes 11-21, 12-23, but all have the 17-16 cogs on a carrier. Really stinks because some of us
don't bother with the 12 at all unless we're on a descent.

IIRC, the 12-27 has a 12,13,14,15,17-19,21-24-27. Get a 105 or similar cassette with a 13 top cog
and loose 16, replace the 12,13 with the 13 top, and stick the 16 in between the 15 and 17.

KBH said:

No. Buy 105 (although there is no 105 12-27 - which is unfortunate, as I would like to build a
13-27, but Shimano don't make it easy).

13/28 is easy to make. You buy a 13/25 Ultegra and pull out the 16 and add the 28.

You can buy a 13/23 and a 12/27 and put together your cassette too.

If you could also buy a 105 13/26 and buy a 27t cog. The cog is aluminum and made by Tiso. Your
local shop can get from distributor. You'll have to want the cog lots. The retail price is $34.95

donald-<< Looking for one of these cassettes. Any reason not to get a DA?

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<BR><BR>

Twice the price for the same performance...little lighter but not worth $50 or so IMHO-

Ti in the largest cogs wears a lot like steel...no better, not really worse.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Mike J-<< I have had two very noisy 12-27 DuraAce cassettes, but never a problem with an Ultegra.
The noise drove me nuts; I thought it was coming from somewhere else in the drivetrain, but it was
the last three cogs >><BR><BR>

Switch to a Campagnolo rear wheel/cogset-ya don't need that 12t anyway......

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Chluu-<< Out of curiosity, can the cogs be removed from the carrier? I woul like to separate the 16
17 cogs from its carrier. >><BR><BR>

Nope, not on DA or ultegra..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

<< Out of curiosity, can the cogs be removed from the carrier? I would like to separate the 16 17
cogs from its carrier. >>

The cogs are riveted together, but can be separated with some effort and a few tools. I ground the
heads off the rivets with a dremel tool,

Paul Kopit said:

KBH said:

No. Buy 105 (although there is no 105 12-27 - which is unfortunate, as I would like to build a
13-27, but Shimano don't make it easy).

13/28 is easy to make. You buy a 13/25 Ultegra and pull out the 16 and add the 28.

Will Ultegra or DA really handle a 28 cog? I thought 27 was maximum without exchanging the rear
derailleur for a MBT component like XT or similar.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

Will Ultegra or DA really handle a 28 cog? I thought 27 was maximum

No problem, even for DA 7402.

Per Elmsäter said:

Will Ultegra or DA really handle a 28 cog? I thought 27 was maximum without exchanging the rear
derailleur for a MBT component like XT or similar.

Most deraileur ratings are a little on the conservative side. You can usually get away with a few
teeth more than rated. I wouldn't be suprised if you could get away with 30T.

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now

"Paul Kopit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Per Elmsäter said:

Will Ultegra or DA really handle a 28 cog? I thought 27 was maximum

No problem, even for DA 7402.

But the DA is at it's extreme limit. They claim it will only shift a 26 then fudged it to 27 but it
will shift a 28 but the chain length has to be spot on.

Paul Kopit said:

The current 3x10 long cage rear derailleurs are longer than XT long cage and can handle a 34t cog.
The Centaur works fine on my tandem with a 32.

Interesting. It was my understanding though that to do a "Shimagnolo" setup, you need to use the 9
speed stuff and as near as I can tell, you have to go all the way down to Veloce to get a long cage
9 speed rear deraileur. Would it work with 9 speed ergos and a 10 speed Record, Chorus or Centaur
rear deraileur? What's the difference in cable throw between the 9sp and 10sp Campy rear deraileurs?

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now

Bill Davidson said:

Would it work with 9 speed ergos and a 10 speed Record, Chorus or Centaur rear deraileur?

The 3x10 triple rear derailleurs are 10 sp. The current long cage Veloce is a medium cage in Record
and Centaur. In 2004 I believe that the Veloce will also have a 3x10 option. Either 9sp or 10sp Ergo
will shift the 9sp Shimano cassette fine.