10 speed conversion pains

[Joel]

Well I thought I finally was going to get my bike together tonight but
Shimano did it to me again.
I have upgraded shfters to Dura Ace ST-7800 10 speed, crankset to
FC-R700 compact, cassette to Ultegra 10 speed. Now I find the Dura Ace
FD-7700 front derailleur is not working with the new shifters. When I
shift to the big ring, the derailleur is not nearly far enough outward.
Shimano must have changed the throw of the derailleur when they went to
10 speed, how nice of them. When I look at the compatibilty chart on
Shimano's web site, sure enough the ST-7800 is not compatible with the
FD-7700. Now I have the following choices:

1. Put my old ST-7700 left shifter on and have mixed shifters (No I am
not doing this)

2. Buy an Ultegra FD-6600 for about $45.

3. Buy a Dura Ace FD-7800 on ebay (can't afford $100 retail price)

4. Buy an IRD compact FD since I hace compact crankset, not sure if
this derailleur works with ST-7800 shifters?

Please vote your favorite solution, I am leaning towards #3.

Thanks - Joel

 

[Robin Hubert]

Joel wrote:
> Well I thought I finally was going to get my bike together tonight but
> Shimano did it to me again.
> I have upgraded shfters to Dura Ace ST-7800 10 speed, crankset to
> FC-R700 compact, cassette to Ultegra 10 speed. Now I find the Dura Ace
> FD-7700 front derailleur is not working with the new shifters. When I
> shift to the big ring, the derailleur is not nearly far enough outward.
> Shimano must have changed the throw of the derailleur when they went to
> 10 speed, how nice of them. When I look at the compatibilty chart on
> Shimano's web site, sure enough the ST-7800 is not compatible with the
> FD-7700. Now I have the following choices:
>
> 1. Put my old ST-7700 left shifter on and have mixed shifters (No I am
> not doing this)
>
> 2. Buy an Ultegra FD-6600 for about $45.
>
> 3. Buy a Dura Ace FD-7800 on ebay (can't afford $100 retail price)
>
> 4. Buy an IRD compact FD since I hace compact crankset, not sure if
> this derailleur works with ST-7800 shifters?
>
> Please vote your favorite solution, I am leaning towards #3.
>
> Thanks - Joel
>

If you do not know what is or the significance of the limit screws you
shouldn't be messing around with this.

Who installed your crank?

I could be that the chainline is slightly different, not to mention the
relative position of the derailleur to the large ring. Moving to a
compact crank you should have to lower the fd a bit.

Now, what are those limit screws for?


Robin (jerk) Hubert

 

[Joel]

I adjusted the limit screws so they are not the issue.
I installed the crank myself.
I did lower the fd.
The problem is shifter / fd incompatibility.
The shifter does not pull the derailleur far enough out.

Joel

 

[Francesco Devittori]

Joel wrote:
> I adjusted the limit screws so they are not the issue.
> I installed the crank myself.
> I did lower the fd.
> The problem is shifter / fd incompatibility.
> The shifter does not pull the derailleur far enough out.
>
> Joel
>

I don't think they are incompatible, I'm using a dura-ace 7410 front der
with all else being 7800 and it works fine. Wait before buying a new FD,
I guess you can adjust it to work.

Francesco

 

[Ron Ruff]

Joel wrote:
> I adjusted the limit screws so they are not the issue.
> I installed the crank myself.
> I did lower the fd.
> The problem is shifter / fd incompatibility.
> The shifter does not pull the derailleur far enough out.

Any slop in the cable when you are on the small ring? If so, adjust it
till there isn't any.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Joel wrote:
> Well I thought I finally was going to get my bike together tonight but
> Shimano did it to me again.
> I have upgraded shfters to Dura Ace ST-7800 10 speed, crankset to
> FC-R700 compact, cassette to Ultegra 10 speed. Now I find the Dura Ace
> FD-7700 front derailleur is not working with the new shifters. When I
> shift to the big ring, the derailleur is not nearly far enough outward.
> Shimano must have changed the throw of the derailleur when they went to
> 10 speed, how nice of them. When I look at the compatibilty chart on
> Shimano's web site, sure enough the ST-7800 is not compatible with the
> FD-7700. Now I have the following choices:
>
> 1. Put my old ST-7700 left shifter on and have mixed shifters (No I am
> not doing this)
>
> 2. Buy an Ultegra FD-6600 for about $45.
>
> 3. Buy a Dura Ace FD-7800 on ebay (can't afford $100 retail price)
>
> 4. Buy an IRD compact FD since I hace compact crankset, not sure if
> this derailleur works with ST-7800 shifters?
>
> Please vote your favorite solution, I am leaning towards #3.
>
> Thanks - Joel

First try to mount the inner wire underneath the FD fixing bolt but you
are correct, the 7800 FD isn't compatible with 7700 levers either, it
doesn't travel far enough.

Also with the 7700, make sure the chain is REALLY close to the inner
cage when on small rig and big cog and make sure the inner wire is
really tight, no slop at all. This may get it far enough out.

 

[Joel]

Peter,

Ok, that does work. I have to admit its been awhile since I messed with
a front der.
I can see the cage on the 7700 der is wider than it needs to be.
I still need to take it for a test ride but I think it will do
temporarily.
I am still going to get a FD-7800 so everything is compatible.

On another note. When I put the 7800 chain together (using a Park CT-5)
the pin is almost flush with either side of the chain. This is a little
scary to me, hope the chain does not break apart. I am used to a little
bit of the pin going beyond the outer plates. Is there a better tool
for doing this?

Thanks - Joel

 

[Sorni]

Joel wrote:

> On another note. When I put the 7800 chain together (using a Park
> CT-5) the pin is almost flush with either side of the chain. This is
> a little scary to me, hope the chain does not break apart. I am used
> to a little bit of the pin going beyond the outer plates. Is there a
> better tool for doing this?

Yes. A quick-link.

Bill "love Shimano (road) chains; hate their little pins" S.

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

> Bill "love Shimano (road) chains; hate their little pins" S.

Darn Shimano making their road chains completely and utterly incompatible
with their mountain chains!!!
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Werehatrack]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:05:12 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Bill "love Shimano (road) chains; hate their little pins" S.
>
>Darn Shimano making their road chains completely and utterly incompatible
>with their mountain chains!!!

And the chain knows what it's on? (I prefer to rant "When will
Shimano get into the 20th Century and put out a snaplink?")
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Doug Taylor]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:35:02 GMT, "Sorni" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Joel wrote:
>
>> On another note. When I put the 7800 chain together (using a Park
>> CT-5) the pin is almost flush with either side of the chain. This is
>> a little scary to me, hope the chain does not break apart. I am used
>> to a little bit of the pin going beyond the outer plates. Is there a
>> better tool for doing this?
>
>Yes. A quick-link.

Ah, but which one? My choice and recommendation (sorry Peter):

IRD snap link, one made for Shimano 10 speed, one for Campy:

http://www.interlocracing.com/chains.html

 

[Sorni]

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> (I wrote):

>> Bill "love Shimano (road) chains; hate their little pins" S.

> Darn Shimano making their road chains completely and utterly
> incompatible with their mountain chains!!!

I prefer SRAM for mtb-ing, but find it (PC-99 anyway) noisy on my road bike.

Years ago I tried a Shimano chain on my mtb, and broke it three times within
the first few miles.

Biill "I never mentioned 'compatibility', BTW" S.

 

[Johnny Sunset]

Werehatrack wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:05:12 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Bill "love Shimano (road) chains; hate their little pins" S.
> >
> >Darn Shimano making their road chains completely and utterly incompatible
> >with their mountain chains!!!
>
> And the chain knows what it's on? (I prefer to rant "When will
> Shimano get into the 20th Century and put out a snaplink?")

If quick connect links are "20th Century", what is the 21st Century
method for connecting the ends of a chain? I need to know so I am not
out of date.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Joel wrote:
> Peter,
>
> Ok, that does work. I have to admit its been awhile since I messed with
> a front der.
> I can see the cage on the 7700 der is wider than it needs to be.
> I still need to take it for a test ride but I think it will do
> temporarily.
> I am still going to get a FD-7800 so everything is compatible.
>
> On another note. When I put the 7800 chain together (using a Park CT-5)
> the pin is almost flush with either side of the chain. This is a little
> scary to me, hope the chain does not break apart. I am used to a little
> bit of the pin going beyond the outer plates. Is there a better tool
> for doing this?
>
> Thanks - Joel

Not really, any good chain tool but you are right, the ends of the pin
are recessed, stick out not at all. Remember to install ala the
instructions also-wiith the inner section of the chain link going
forward, do not cut the outer section, install pin from the insdie. If
you don't follow, particularly the direction gig, chain breakage is a
good possibility.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Doug Taylor wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:35:02 GMT, "Sorni" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Joel wrote:
> >
> >> On another note. When I put the 7800 chain together (using a Park
> >> CT-5) the pin is almost flush with either side of the chain. This is
> >> a little scary to me, hope the chain does not break apart. I am used
> >> to a little bit of the pin going beyond the outer plates. Is there a
> >> better tool for doing this?
> >
> >Yes. A quick-link.
>
> Ah, but which one? My choice and recommendation (sorry Peter):
>
> IRD snap link, one made for Shimano 10 speed, one for Campy:
>
> http://www.interlocracing.com/chains.html

Don't apologise, I don't have to use it;-).

I use the Wipperman link for a 6.2mm chain on shimano 10s chains. Sram
will have a 10s chain soon and Campag has a cheaper one as well.

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> Werehatrack wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:05:12 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Bill "love Shimano (road) chains; hate their little pins" S.
>>>
>>> Darn Shimano making their road chains completely and utterly
>>> incompatible with their mountain chains!!!
>>
>> And the chain knows what it's on? (I prefer to rant "When will
>> Shimano get into the 20th Century and put out a snaplink?")
>
> If quick connect links are "20th Century", what is the 21st Century
> method for connecting the ends of a chain? I need to know so I am not
> out of date.

Lazer [sic] welded pins!
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Doug Taylor]

On 18 Jan 2006 06:02:34 -0800, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Ah, but which one? My choice and recommendation (sorry Peter):
>>
>> IRD snap link, one made for Shimano 10 speed, one for Campy:
>>
>> http://www.interlocracing.com/chains.html
>
>Don't apologise, I don't have to use it;-).
>
>I use the Wipperman link for a 6.2mm chain on shimano 10s chains. Sram
>will have a 10s chain soon and Campag has a cheaper one as well.

The IRD snap link is very similar to the SRAM powerlink, both being
symmetrical and shaped like a true link, unlike the Wipperman, which
is asymmetrical as well as longer than a regular link. So the
Wipperman doesn't work with an 11 tooth cog - at least not for me.

So, until SRAM finally comes out with a 10 speed chain, IRD is the
best 10 choice for Shimano drive trains for riders who want a snap
link AND use 11 tooth cogs to give them a high gear for compact rings.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Doug Taylor wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2006 06:02:34 -0800, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Ah, but which one? My choice and recommendation (sorry Peter):
> >>
> >> IRD snap link, one made for Shimano 10 speed, one for Campy:
> >>
> >> http://www.interlocracing.com/chains.html
> >
> >Don't apologise, I don't have to use it;-).
> >
> >I use the Wipperman link for a 6.2mm chain on shimano 10s chains. Sram
> >will have a 10s chain soon and Campag has a cheaper one as well.
>
> The IRD snap link is very similar to the SRAM powerlink, both being
> symmetrical and shaped like a true link, unlike the Wipperman, which
> is asymmetrical as well as longer than a regular link. So the
> Wipperman doesn't work with an 11 tooth cog - at least not for me.

Gotta make sure it's correct side up..with the more gardual bend of the
side plate toward the cog, then it'll work.
>
> So, until SRAM finally comes out with a 10 speed chain, IRD is the
> best 10 choice for Shimano drive trains for riders who want a snap
> link AND use 11 tooth cogs to give them a high gear for compact rings.

 

[Paul Kopit]

On 16 Jan 2006 20:52:04 -0800, "Joel" <[email protected]> wrote:

>4. Buy an IRD compact FD since I hace compact crankset, not sure if
>this derailleur works with ST-7800 shifters?

Would not be my choice. The unit is for braze on mount only and
requires an adapter for any clamp on application. The spring or
leverage point of the unit makes it require more lever pressure to
move outward. If you still are interested, I'll sell you an almost
new one for $25 shipped.

Regular Campy 9 and 10 front derailleurs work fine with 50/34.

A Shimano 8sp DA is a great catch.

I've heard wonderful things about the FSA compact front derailleurs
but have no personal experience.

I don't know why your 7700 won't work fine.

 

[Paul Kopit]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:50:38 -0500, Doug Taylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>IRD snap link, one made for Shimano 10 speed, one for Campy:

Iuse that link but it isn't the best design. The pins are attached to
the sideplates with what appears to be a friction fit. The pin seems
jammed into a hole. I've had the pin loosen. It doesn't fall out
because the head, that is flush with the outer plate, is peened over
slightly. When the link is apart, I have had the pin fall out.

This never happened to me with Sram Powerlink II or Connex. I've had
no problems using the former, wider 10 sp chain links with the Shimano
5.8 width. The SRAM link, which was designed for 9 sp chain works
fine with all.