10-speed chain with XTR crankset?

Ed:
you can use 10 sp chain for 9 or 8sp components,however you cannot use 10sp for
anything else but 10sp.

Thank you Earl
GRR,RANS V2
Ti Rush,Ti Pursuit

On 02 Nov 2004 15:46:30 GMT

(Guess Who I Am) said:

Ed:
you can use 10 sp chain for 9 or 8sp components,however you cannot use
10sp for anything else but 10sp.

I don't follow.

I can use 10 speed chain with 9 and 8 speed components, but i can't use
10 speed *what for anything else but 10 speed?

'course, I don't see the point in 10 cogs vs 9 (or even 7) when the
range is still 11-32. If your range was 11-20 or something, ok, sure.

I saw a box of 7 unused 9 speed SRAM chains go by real cheap on ebay
last week, and didn't bid because i wasn't sure if they'd work with my 8
speed cogs. Bummer.

let me correct myself.
you can use a 10sp chain on all 7,8,9 and 10sp.
but you CANNOT use a 9sp chain for 10sp use as well as 8 can't be used for 9sp.
Thank you Earl
GRR,RANS V2
Ti Rush,Ti Pursuit

On 02 Nov 2004 18:39:20 GMT

(Guess Who I Am) said:

let me correct myself.
you can use a 10sp chain on all 7,8,9 and 10sp.
but you CANNOT use a 9sp chain for 10sp use as well as 8 can't be used
for 9sp. Thank you Earl

So the difference between 7/8/9/10 is the spacing between the cogs
rather than the width of the teeth on the cogs? That would make sense, I
guess.

Sorry, I may have sent an incomplete message. Here is the full message.

If a 10-speed chain can be used on 7,8,9 speed cogsets and cranksets, that
seems strange. It would seem that cogs and chainrings would get narrower,
the narrower the chain they are designed for. Though maybe the differences
in width would not prevent a 10-speed chain from working on 7,8,9 speed cogs
and chainrings. Would a 10-speed wear out quicker and shift not as well?

I would like to run an 10-speed Ultegra 12-27 cogset and rear derailleur,
but have a 9-speed 22-32-44 XT crankset on the front. I want a lot of gears
close together, except that I need the 22t chainring with the 27t cog to get
a "granny" gear. I'm wanting to do this on a RANS Force 5 frameset.
It's still not absolutely clear that running the 10-speed chain on the
9-speed crankset won't be a problem. If it's not a problem, great!

Quoted message said:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Jorgensen" <[email hidden]>
Newsgroups: alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: 10-speed chain with XTR crankset?

Quoted message said:

On 02 Nov 2004 18:39:20 GMT

(Guess Who I Am) said:

let me correct myself.
you can use a 10sp chain on all 7,8,9 and 10sp.
but you CANNOT use a 9sp chain for 10sp use as well as 8 can't be used
for 9sp. Thank you Earl

So the difference between 7/8/9/10 is the spacing between the cogs
rather than the width of the teeth on the cogs? That would make sense, I
guess.

"Ed Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I want to use an Ultegra 10-speed rear, with 10-speed chain, but need a low
gear. However, I don't think I'll be able to have this. Using an XT or XTR
crankset on the front would not be a good idea with the 10-speed chain,
would it?

Maybe, maybe not. According to Sheldon Brown's chart:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sp-ss.html
10-speed sprockets are .18mm thinner than 9-speed (1.6mm vs. 1.78mm).
I'd bet the Shimano chain will jam on the XTR chainrings. You might be
able to make it work with a Campy or Wipperman chain. That's an
expensive experiment, though.

Jeff

[email hidden] (Guess Who I Am) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

let me correct myself.
you can use a 10sp chain on all 7,8,9 and 10sp.
but you CANNOT use a 9sp chain for 10sp use as well as 8 can't be used for 9sp.
Thank you Earl
GRR,RANS V2
Ti Rush,Ti Pursuit

You're wrong, Earl. 9- and 10-speed sprockets are thinner than 7- and
8-speed. See my other post for Sheldon Brown's sprocket and spacer
thickness chart.

Jeff

(Guess Who I Am) said:

Quoted message said:

let me correct myself.
you can use a 10sp chain on all 7,8,9 and 10sp.
but you CANNOT use a 9sp chain for 10sp use as well as 8 can't be used for 9sp.
Thank you Earl
GRR,RANS V2
Ti Rush,Ti Pursuit

Jeff Wills replied:

Quoted message said:

You're wrong, Earl. 9- and 10-speed sprockets are thinner than 7- and
8-speed. See my other post for Sheldon Brown's sprocket and spacer
thickness chart.

I'm not sure which part of the AOLers message Jeff thinks is "wrong"
but I don't believe it is.

The 9- and 10-speed sprockets are thinner in the middle, but there's
no difference in the thickness of the teeth.

Sheldon "Bicycle Dentist" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts
+--------------------------------------------+
| If you haven't yet discovered the novels |
| of Neal Stephenson, don't wait! |
| Start with Snow Crash or Quicksilver |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown said:

(Guess Who I Am) said:

Quoted message said:

let me correct myself.
you can use a 10sp chain on all 7,8,9 and 10sp.
but you CANNOT use a 9sp chain for 10sp use as well as 8 can't be used for 9sp.
Thank you Earl
GRR,RANS V2
Ti Rush,Ti Pursuit

Jeff Wills replied:

Quoted message said:

You're wrong, Earl. 9- and 10-speed sprockets are thinner than 7- and
8-speed. See my other post for Sheldon Brown's sprocket and spacer
thickness chart.

I'm not sure which part of the AOLers message Jeff thinks is "wrong"
but I don't believe it is.

The 9- and 10-speed sprockets are thinner in the middle, but there's
no difference in the thickness of the teeth.

Does this mean that Sheldon "Greenspeed" Brown will be gracing
alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent with his astute observations and advice on at
least a semi-regular basis?

--
Tom Sherman
Feingold-Obama 2008

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Guess Who I Am) said:

Quoted message said:

let me correct myself.
you can use a 10sp chain on all 7,8,9 and 10sp.
but you CANNOT use a 9sp chain for 10sp use as well as 8 can't be used
for 9sp.
Thank you Earl
GRR,RANS V2
Ti Rush,Ti Pursuit

Jeff Wills replied:

Quoted message said:

You're wrong, Earl. 9- and 10-speed sprockets are thinner than 7- and
8-speed. See my other post for Sheldon Brown's sprocket and spacer
thickness chart.

I'm not sure which part of the AOLers message Jeff thinks is "wrong"
but I don't believe it is.

The 9- and 10-speed sprockets are thinner in the middle, but there's
no difference in the thickness of the teeth.

Sheldon "Bicycle Dentist" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts
+--------------------------------------------+
| If you haven't yet discovered the novels |
| of Neal Stephenson, don't wait! |
| Start with Snow Crash or Quicksilver |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Hey Earl, maybe you should get a viking helmets too. Then you might get some
respect. Just don't wear a clock around your neck unless you're partial to
huge blond women. :o)

yer bud, older fatter and slower, but much cuter, harv

harv said:

Hey Earl, maybe you should get a viking helmets too. Then you might get some
respect. Just don't wear a clock around your neck unless you're partial to
huge blond women. :o)

yer bud, older fatter and slower, but much cuter, harv

Harv,

That helmet would go well with Earl's special cycling outfit (the one
Barb and Wendy gave to him). 😉

--
Tom Sherman
Feingold-Obama 2008

[email hidden] (Sheldon Brown) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure which part of the AOLers message Jeff thinks is "wrong"
but I don't believe it is.

The 9- and 10-speed sprockets are thinner in the middle, but there's
no difference in the thickness of the teeth.

OK, now I'm really confused, Sheldon. There's a chart on your page:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sp-ss.html
that says Shimano 10-speed cogs are 1.6mm thick with a 2.35mm spacer
between them. That same chart says that Shimano 9-speed cogs are
1.78mm thick with a 2.56mm spacer.

This *implies* that the 10-speed chain is substantially narrower
between the inner plates than a 9-speed chain, making it difficult or
impossible to run a Shimano 10-speed chain on the OP's 9-speed XTR
chainrings.

What am I missing?

Jeff

On 4 Nov 2004 21:28:32 -0800

(Jeff Wills) said:

[email hidden] (Sheldon Brown) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure which part of the AOLers message Jeff thinks is "wrong"
but I don't believe it is.

The 9- and 10-speed sprockets are thinner in the middle, but there's
no difference in the thickness of the teeth.

OK, now I'm really confused, Sheldon. There's a chart on your page:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sp-ss.html
that says Shimano 10-speed cogs are 1.6mm thick with a 2.35mm spacer
between them. That same chart says that Shimano 9-speed cogs are
1.78mm thick with a 2.56mm spacer.

This *implies* that the 10-speed chain is substantially narrower
between the inner plates than a 9-speed chain, making it difficult or
impossible to run a Shimano 10-speed chain on the OP's 9-speed XTR
chainrings.

What am I missing?

My take on that is that he is referring to the size with regard to
building up custom cassettes, and that the 10 speed cogs and spacers are
just milled differently, but this could be made clearer.

The concept here is that the interior dimensions of the links remain
the same, but the outer edges of the chain obviously have to be slightly
more streamlined to fit between the closer spaced but still the same tooth
size cogs.

Got me how they do it. I have noticed, for example, that SRAM PC-58
chain as compared to, say KMC Z-72 chain, seems to have a smoother profile,
even though both chains are advertised as being for 8 speed cogs and as
being HG and IG compatible, and both work quite acceptably on 8 speed
configurations. I imagine there is more that can be done. Perhaps the
plates are thinner and the pins slightly shorter?

I imagine if you took a 10 speed chain and held it next to a 9 speed
chain and an 8 speed chain from the same maker, the differences would
become obvious, and that you could easily measure said differences with a
$20 set of chinese digital calipers from harbor freight.

I still question the need for more cogs than maybe 7 given the same
lowest and highest cog, but to each his own. I'm happy with my 8 speed
setup, especially considering how cheaply the parts go on ebay, now that
it's been rendered entirely ghetto by the advent of 10 speed cogs.

My brother-in-law rides an aluminum comfort bike with a single 34 tooth
chain ring and a 7 speed 12-28 cassette in the back. Couldn't be happier
and spent all of $98 on the thing. I went for a ride with him a few weeks
ago and was afraid he might slow down so much I might have to drop into one
of those gears where it becomes tricky to keep my swb 'bent vertical . . .

Quoth Jeff Wils:

Quoted message said:

OK, now I'm really confused, Sheldon. There's a chart on your page:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sp-ss.html
that says Shimano 10-speed cogs are 1.6mm thick with a 2.35mm spacer
between them. That same chart says that Shimano 9-speed cogs are
1.78mm thick with a 2.56mm spacer.

This *implies* that the 10-speed chain is substantially narrower
between the inner plates than a 9-speed chain, making it difficult or
impossible to run a Shimano 10-speed chain on the OP's 9-speed XTR
chainrings.

What am I missing?

No, you _inferred_ that. My site has no specific info on the inner
width of chains, this is not an easy thing to measure.

In my experience they're all pretty much interchangeable.

I only own one bike with a 10-speed cassette. That bike is using an
18-year old Sugino crank with Shimano Biopace chainrings, 52, 42 & 28
teeth. This crank and chainrings are from when 7-speed cassettes were
the latest and greatest.

They work fine with my 10-speed chain.

Sheldon "3/32" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Always listen to the experts. |
| They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. |
| Then do it. --Robert A. Heinlein |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[email hidden] (Sheldon Brown) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I only own one bike with a 10-speed cassette. That bike is using an
18-year old Sugino crank with Shimano Biopace chainrings, 52, 42 & 28
teeth. This crank and chainrings are from when 7-speed cassettes were
the latest and greatest.

They work fine with my 10-speed chain.

OK- back to the beginning. I infurred that the Shimano 10-speed chain
was narrower between the inner plates because the cogs are shown to be
thinner. A Wipperman or Campy 10-speed chain *should* be wider, since
the cogs are thicker.

So, what kind of chain have you got there, Mr. Brown? 8-)

Jeffurry the Finicky

Jeff Wills said:

...
So, what kind of chain have you got there, Mr. Brown? 8-)

Here are some of the chains that Mr. Brown has. 😉

<http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chains.html>.

--
Tom Sherman – Greater QCA

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Jeff Wills said:

...
So, what kind of chain have you got there, Mr. Brown? 8-)

Here are some of the chains that Mr. Brown has. 😉

<http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chains.html>.

Aw, geez... OK...

Mr. Sheldon Brown, please tell us what kind of chain you have on the
bicycle (trike?) that has the Biopace chainrings and 10-speed
cassette.

Cut me a slab of slack, Tom. 8-?

Jeff