10 marathons back to back!?

timeOday said:

I suppose many of you will already know this Dean Karnazes guy, but I
did not.

"These days he runs 70 to 120 miles a week and regularly runs all night,
sometimes putting the kids to bed on a Friday night, setting out for a
hot spring 70 miles from home and meeting the family there in the morning."

"Next a 199-mile race, which he has now completed 10 years in a row, and
which is normally a relay for teams of 12 runners. In 2004 Karnazes went
"the extra distance," so to speak. He ran 63 miles to the start and then
ran the entire race solo -- for a total of 262 miles or 10 complete
marathons."

Well, it's the same distance as 10 marathons, much like a 10k is 25 lots of
400m. But you don't see 10k runners tooting their horns about how they've
"run the 400m course 25 times". Because it would be disrespectful to the
point of insulting to suggest that the first several 400m that one coasts
through in a 10k race are in anyway comparable to what a 400m runner does.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

This is publicity from his new book... his book is a great book, and very
inspiring. Unless I don't understand your post, Dean isn't tooting his horn
by any means. His 200 mile runs have all been for charity, raising money
for children with terminal illnesses (read his book for more info). Dean is
an awesome guy, and quite the character.

Greg

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

timeOday said:

I suppose many of you will already know this Dean Karnazes guy, but I
did not.

"These days he runs 70 to 120 miles a week and regularly runs all night,
sometimes putting the kids to bed on a Friday night, setting out for a
hot spring 70 miles from home and meeting the family there in the

morning."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Next a 199-mile race, which he has now completed 10 years in a row, and
which is normally a relay for teams of 12 runners. In 2004 Karnazes went
"the extra distance," so to speak. He ran 63 miles to the start and then
ran the entire race solo -- for a total of 262 miles or 10 complete
marathons."

Well, it's the same distance as 10 marathons, much like a 10k is 25 lots

of

Quoted message said:

400m. But you don't see 10k runners tooting their horns about how they've
"run the 400m course 25 times". Because it would be disrespectful to the
point of insulting to suggest that the first several 400m that one coasts
through in a 10k race are in anyway comparable to what a 400m runner does.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Greg Goodson said:

This is publicity from his new book... his book is a great book, and very
inspiring. Unless I don't understand your post, Dean isn't tooting his horn
by any means.

Sure that comment was written by an ignorant journalist -- however, he has
said exactly the same thing himself (called his 262 "the equivalent of
10 marathons"😉.

Quoted message said:

His 200 mile runs have all been for charity, raising money
for children with terminal illnesses (read his book for more info).

I'm sure he'll tell us what a great guy he is. But I agree that he's not doing
it for money (since there's no money in ultra running)

Quoted message said:

Dean is an awesome guy, and quite the character.

Yep. Did you see the article about him "winning" the South Pole marathon ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Well, it's the same distance as 10 marathons, much like a 10k is 25 lots of
400m. But you don't see 10k runners tooting their horns about how they've
"run the 400m course 25 times". Because it would be disrespectful to the
point of insulting to suggest that the first several 400m that one coasts
through in a 10k race are in anyway comparable to what a 400m runner does.

Big difference: millions of people can actually run 400 meters 25
consecutive times. How many people can run 262 miles at a time?

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

The Trailrunner said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Well, it's the same distance as 10 marathons, much like a 10k is 25 lots of
400m. But you don't see 10k runners tooting their horns about how they've
"run the 400m course 25 times". Because it would be disrespectful to the
point of insulting to suggest that the first several 400m that one coasts
through in a 10k race are in anyway comparable to what a 400m runner does.

Big difference: millions of people can actually run 400 meters 25
consecutive times. How many people can run 262 miles at a time?

True, but irrelevant. Doesn't address anything that I actually wrote. The
fact that it's really hard does not make it "equivalent" to 10 marathons.
Karnazes could not run 1 world class marathon, let alone 10.

Question: do you believe that the 10k "the equivalent" of twenty-five 400m
dashes ? Michael Johnson runs around the track once, Geb does it twenty-five
times. Is Geb doing "the equivalent" of what MJ does, 25 times over ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Big difference: millions of people can actually run 400 meters 25
consecutive times. How many people can run 262 miles at a time?

True, but irrelevant. Doesn't address anything that I actually wrote.
The
fact that it's really hard does not make it "equivalent" to 10
marathons.
Karnazes could not run 1 world class marathon, let alone 10.

No one said anything about time but time/speed has always been your
metric for accomplishment. Classic redliner. Running 262 miles is an
accomplishment and that fact that you don't think it is equivalent is
your opinion, and irrelevant in my opinion. I and trail man have done
both fast(fast for our abilities) thons and long races - have you?
When it comes to real distance you haven't a clue but feel compelled to
compare.

Quoted message said:

Question: do you believe that the 10k "the equivalent" of twenty-five
400m
dashes ? Michael Johnson runs around the track once, Geb does it
twenty-five
times. Is Geb doing "the equivalent" of what MJ does, 25 times over ?

Talk about irrelevant redliner gibberish.

-DougF

Doug Freese said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Big difference: millions of people can actually run 400 meters 25
consecutive times. How many people can run 262 miles at a time?

True, but irrelevant. Doesn't address anything that I actually wrote. The
fact that it's really hard does not make it "equivalent" to 10 marathons.
Karnazes could not run 1 world class marathon, let alone 10.

No one said anything about time but time/speed has always been your
metric for accomplishment. Classic redliner. Running 262 miles is an
accomplishment

Yes, but it is not "the equivalent" of 10 marathons. The fact that the
distance is 10 times as great does not make it "the equivalent", it just
makes it somewhat longer.

Quoted message said:

and that fact that you don't think it is equivalent is
your opinion, and irrelevant in my opinion. I and trail man have done
both fast(fast for our abilities) thons and long races - have you?
When it comes to real distance you haven't a clue but feel compelled to
compare.

No, I'm not the one who compares by saying that it is "the equivalent" of
10 marathons.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Question: do you believe that the 10k "the equivalent" of twenty-five 400m
dashes ? Michael Johnson runs around the track once, Geb does it
twenty-five times. Is Geb doing "the equivalent" of what MJ does, 25 times
over ?

Talk about irrelevant redliner gibberish.

It's not irrelevant at all. Could you answer the question ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Yes, but it is not "the equivalent" of 10 marathons. The fact that the
distance is 10 times as great does not make it "the equivalent", it just
makes it somewhat longer.

You're being deliberately obtuse. No mention was made of speed, nor
indeed any notion of equivalence in the sense you are pursuing. You
brought it all up and are now lighting bushfires to try divert attention
from your original silliness.

frank-in-toronto said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

On 2005-03-28, Doug Freese <[email hidden]> wrote:

<some in-house fighting snipped>

of course it's not the "equiv" of 10 marathons. but for
the non-running masses, that's a good enough description.
one marathon is almost unthinkable to a non-runner.
10 are like the moon. these long races have a large

i think the moon is like 262 miles away.

Quoted message said:

component of circus-act in them no sleep for a long
time. big support crews. and this is only my opinion,

but, one of the good things is more attention is being
paid to running. which translates sooner or later
to more money at the races, more good press and
hopefully, more public acceptance of running.

if you've read the triathlete press lately, they are having
problems getting approvals to close roads for the races.
i don't know how much race directors have to fight to get
road closures for the running races, but appearances
on tv by these outlyers may help.
...thehick

Donovan Rebbechi said:

On 2005-03-28, Doug Freese <[email hidden]> wrote:

<some in-house fighting snipped>

of course it's not the "equiv" of 10 marathons. but for
the non-running masses, that's a good enough description.
one marathon is almost unthinkable to a non-runner.
10 are like the moon. these long races have a large
component of circus-act in them no sleep for a long
time. big support crews. and this is only my opinion,

but, one of the good things is more attention is being
paid to running. which translates sooner or later
to more money at the races, more good press and
hopefully, more public acceptance of running.

if you've read the triathlete press lately, they are having
problems getting approvals to close roads for the races.
i don't know how much race directors have to fight to get
road closures for the running races, but appearances
on tv by these outlyers may help.
....thehick

We've already done two threads on him
as the guy who is trying to break the 262 mile
continuous run record. Apparently he has a
new book out he is heavily promoting in the
media. And there was a 60 Minutes piece
on him and his nemesis- Pam, the housewife.

steve common said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Yes, but it is not "the equivalent" of 10 marathons. The fact that the
distance is 10 times as great does not make it "the equivalent", it just
makes it somewhat longer.

You're being deliberately obtuse. No mention was made of speed, nor
indeed any notion of equivalence in the sense you are pursuing. You

Karnazes himself did indeed use those exact words:

"This 262 mile I did, which is the equivalent of ten marathons non-stop," ...

http://www.enduranceradio.com/transcripts/03-04-05_Dean_Karnazes.htm

"I wanted to see if I could make it 10 marathons without stopping,"

http://reuters.iwon.com/article/20050324/2005-03-24T141010Z_01_N18511006_RTRIDST_0_ODD-LEISURE-ULTRAMARATHON-DC.html

I don't believe this is "equivalent" in any meaningful sense, because the vast
majority of competitive runners don't just run a marathon to finish. It's
absurd to suggest that what Karnazes accomplishes is 10 times what Paula
Radcliffe accomplishes in one of here marathons. And even for those who are
aiming to just survive, the marathon is an all-out effort, and they are pretty
wasted at the finish line. As it is though, he just went for a really long jog.
The first two or three of those "marathons" were not "marathons" any more than
the first 400m of a 10k is a "400m dash".

Quoted message said:

brought it all up and are now lighting bushfires to try divert attention
from your original silliness.

BS.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

I went out on Saturday and watched Pam Reed run. She was about
137 miles into her 300 mile run. I asked her crew how it
was going and they said she was holding up fine, but running
more slowly than she'd hoped. She had wanted to do the 300
miles in about 60 hours. THis morning's newspaper reported
that she was 50 miles from finishing, and expects to finish
today (Monday) between 10:30 am and noon. I wish I had the
time to drive up and watch!

Teresa in AZ, just a few miles south of where the 300-mile
effort is happening right now!

rick++ said:

We've already done two threads on him
as the guy who is trying to break the 262 mile
continuous run record. Apparently he has a
new book out he is heavily promoting in the
media. And there was a 60 Minutes piece
on him and his nemesis- Pam, the housewife.

frank-in-toronto said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

On 2005-03-28, Doug Freese <[email hidden]> wrote:

<some in-house fighting snipped>

of course it's not the "equiv" of 10 marathons. but for
the non-running masses, that's a good enough description.
one marathon is almost unthinkable to a non-runner.

But that's the problem I have with it -- I don't think that this
sort of comment is both disrespectful to serious marathon runners,
and perpetuates the widespread ignorance about what the marathon is
about. I don't think it's even helpful at educating the public
about ultra-running (except that it may help drum up publicity for his
book which hopefully is more informative than some of his press
releases).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Teresa Bippert-Plymate said:

I went out on Saturday and watched Pam Reed run. She was about
137 miles into her 300 mile run. I asked her crew how it
was going and they said she was holding up fine, but running
more slowly than she'd hoped. She had wanted to do the 300
miles in about 60 hours. THis morning's newspaper reported
that she was 50 miles from finishing, and expects to finish
today (Monday) between 10:30 am and noon. I wish I had the
time to drive up and watch!

thanks for the update. they should have put together
a web-site with hourly pics, short vids and updates.
wouldn't have cost much and i'm sure one of their
suppliers would have gone the cost.
....thehick

Teresa Bippert-Plymate said:

I went out on Saturday and watched Pam Reed run. She was about
137 miles into her 300 mile run. I asked her crew how it
was going and they said she was holding up fine, but running
more slowly than she'd hoped. She had wanted to do the 300
miles in about 60 hours. THis morning's newspaper reported
that she was 50 miles from finishing, and expects to finish
today (Monday) between 10:30 am and noon. I wish I had the
time to drive up and watch!

Thanks for reporter-on-the-spot update, Teresa 🙂 I was looking for a
web update over the weekend and just found a couple newspaper articles.

I was pleased to note that one of the newspapers down there clarified
the goal:
"first woman to run 300 miles nonstop with no sleep"
http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/67478.php
They're using "running" in the loose sense of ultras - walking, massage,
shoe change, and assorted other breaks are allowed, just no sleeping.

A man (name escapes me at the moment) apparently did it at 72-hr
Across-the-Years. And Yiannis Kouros (sp?) reportedly did it in another
much longer race (I can't remember if the webpage someone cited
specifically said he did it without sleeping or was assumed. The
"reportedly" is my laziness to check it.)

This describes a little of the routine:
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/index.php?page=pro&story_id=032805c3_reed

That's an incredible run by any standards.

Dot

--
"Do or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

rick++ said:

We've already done two threads on him
as the guy who is trying to break the 262 mile
continuous run record. Apparently he has a
new book out he is heavily promoting in the
media. And there was a 60 Minutes piece
on him and his nemesis- Pam, the housewife.

I thought the south pole thread had been posted, but apparently
not. Here's an article about it, (btw, Richard Donovan did sue,
and won)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/siadventure/14/south_pole/

Anyway, I'm rooting for Pam Reed.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

snip<
Karnazes himself did indeed use those exact words:

"This 262 mile I did, which is the equivalent of ten marathons non-stop,"

....

Quoted message said:

http://www.enduranceradio.com/transcripts/03-04-05_Dean_Karnazes.htm

"I wanted to see if I could make it 10 marathons without stopping,"

http://reuters.iwon.com/article/20050324/2005-03-24T141010Z_01_N18511006_RT

RIDST_0_ODD-LEISURE-ULTRAMARATHON-DC.html

Quoted message said:

I don't believe this is "equivalent" in any meaningful sense, because the

vast

Quoted message said:

majority of competitive runners don't just run a marathon to finish. It's
absurd to suggest that what Karnazes accomplishes is 10 times what Paula
Radcliffe accomplishes in one of here marathons. And even for those who are
aiming to just survive, the marathon is an all-out effort, and they are

pretty

Quoted message said:

wasted at the finish line. As it is though, he just went for a really long

jog.

Quoted message said:

The first two or three of those "marathons" were not "marathons" any more

than

Quoted message said:

the first 400m of a 10k is a "400m dash".

It's great that Dean does charity events, but I have to agree that while
what he's done is impressive, he clearly is not by any means the best ultra
runner, and the hype about him, which he encourages, is unfortunate, but not
atypical of the gross distortions brought to us by our so-called free media.

I wonder what would happen if there was some money in ultras. The Kenyans
and Ethiopians would be there. It might be a slightly different type who
would excel in ultras than in marathons, but surely these most genetically
gifted runners would kick ass if they had the motivation to do so. In this
sense I think that what we see in the top ultra runners of today -- perhaps
with the exception of a few standouts like Kouros -- is very much fringe.

-Tony

Tony said:

I wonder what would happen if there was some money in ultras. The Kenyans
and Ethiopians would be there. It might be a slightly different type who
would excel in ultras than in marathons,

Top ultra runners are probably all slow-twitch. But I don't agree with the
prevailing myth about ultra running requiring a larger stature. Runners like
Karnazes are basically runners with regional-class talent, who are built much
like other runners with regional-class talent.

Quoted message said:

but surely these most genetically
gifted runners would kick ass if they had the motivation to do so. In this

Yes, I suspect that a lot of the ultra records are somewhat soft at the moment,
especially when a guy like Karnazes "invents" new possibilities for setting
"records".

There were 500 Kenyans who ran sub 2:20 in 2004. I suspect that if all of these
guys showed up at an ultra, several of them would beat all females, and anyone
over 40. And at present, that's good enough to win some of the big ultras.

Quoted message said:

sense I think that what we see in the top ultra runners of today -- perhaps
with the exception of a few standouts like Kouros -- is very much fringe.

I read on letsrun that there are some sub 2:20 guys in the ultra marathon
world, so there are some who are very talented. But there are not enough of
them to run every major race, so the result is that a lot of the records are
very soft. And I don't think it's really enough to have a single 2:20 guy run
the course to get a reasonably hard record -- you need to have a few dozen
such runners do the course (because the potential for variability between
individuals, within individuals, or environmental, in a race that long would
be enormous)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/