Weird exploding tires

Anthony Giorgianni said:

Thanks for posting that link .. and so quickly.

But nothing there seems to apply. There wasn't any heat. I didn't even
get a chance to try these new tires. And I used an old tube the second
time. So it couldn't have been the tube. But that page does make me
wonder if there is a defect in the bead of this new tire. Anyone seen
that before , resulting in a tire unseating itself?

If you caught the tube under the tire bead you could have a blowout like
that with a new or a well-used tube. It's easy enough for you to check
that when you're starting to inflate the tire. It's more likely that
you're using a new tire that isn't compatible with the rim - many tires
these days require hook-bead rims, and will blow off on the old style
rims. I'm betting this is your problem.

Regarding 27 x 1 1/4 vs 27 x 1 1/8 - back when 1 1/8 first came on the
market I used them with great success on the same rims I'd been using for
1 1/4 tires. Of course, back then 75 psi was high pressure.

"Anthony Giorgianni" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello All

Hope it's alright to cross-post this to these two groups.

I have a very strange problem all a sudden on my old, trusty Fiorelli 10
speed (I have a 23 lb alternative machine, but this old, heavy bike just
feels right). I just repacked the hubs and replaced the tires and tubes.
Though I have old steel 27 1/4 rims, I have for decades used 27 1/8 100lb
tires for the higher pressure.

Old steel rims are really bad in the rain. They almost certainly lack hooks,
so high tire pressure is unreliable. I'd buy some new wheels (or rims,
anyway).

Anthony Giorgianni wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Interesting Trevor. But would the tire say to use only on hooked rims?

I've been running 100 pounds tires forever on these rim, mostly recently
Trek Iso Tech 2 100lb and never had a problem like this. The bead and
material used on these Avinir tires 1 1/8 105 lbs seems the same as on the
Treks, which I've probably run for five years at 100 lb. Have I just been
lucky?

Aramid fibre is used on 'folding tyres', especially useful on folding rims
:-), steel beads are used on most 'wired' tyres. If it is a folding tyre,
it should say on the box and on the tyre not to use without the hooked rims
as there is otherwise nothing to constrain the bead from lifting at one
point whilst it flexes. If they are steel beaded tyres there is some other
problem. I would suggest that the rim may need cleaning, any waxy coating
should also be cleaned from the tyre bead.
Perhaps the Trecks are a tad wider, enough to make a difference. I
really suspect it is a waxy coating on the bead.

Trevor

Hmmm ... maybe I got grease on the rim from repacking the bearings?
Interesting idea. I did get some grease on the rim but wiped it off. Could
be residual maybe.

Oh, I notice that Avinirs DO some in 1 1/4 and 1 1/8 in 100 to 120 pounds
version. So they must be intended for 1 1/4. Perhaps you're on to something
with something on the rims!!! I could try cleaning and then ... putting yet
one more tube and my hearing at risk.

Might try it. Thx

--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.

Quoted message said:

Aramid fibre is used on 'folding tyres', especially useful on folding rims
:-), steel beads are used on most 'wired' tyres. If it is a folding tyre,
it should say on the box and on the tyre not to use without the hooked

rims

Quoted message said:

as there is otherwise nothing to constrain the bead from lifting at one
point whilst it flexes. If they are steel beaded tyres there is some

other

Quoted message said:

problem. I would suggest that the rim may need cleaning, any waxy coating
should also be cleaned from the tyre bead.
Perhaps the Trecks are a tad wider, enough to make a difference. I
really suspect it is a waxy coating on the bead.

Trevor

I'll guess that you don't have a hook on the rim whichm coupled with the
narrower tires, set you up for this.

I have ridden rims that lacked the hook and gotten away with it using new tires
(that are supposed to require hooked rims) but you might have run out of luck.

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]>

Trevor Jeffrey said:

Anthony Giorgianni wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Interesting Trevor. But would the tire say to use only on hooked rims?

I've been running 100 pounds tires forever on these rim, mostly recently
Trek Iso Tech 2 100lb and never had a problem like this. The bead and
material used on these Avinir tires 1 1/8 105 lbs seems the same as on
the
Treks, which I've probably run for five years at 100 lb. Have I just
been
lucky?

Aramid fibre is used on 'folding tyres', especially useful on folding
rims
:-), steel beads are used on most 'wired' tyres. If it is a folding
tyre,
it should say on the box and on the tyre not to use without the hooked
rims
as there is otherwise nothing to constrain the bead from lifting at one
point whilst it flexes. If they are steel beaded tyres there is some
other
problem. I would suggest that the rim may need cleaning, any waxy
coating
should also be cleaned from the tyre bead.
Perhaps the Trecks are a tad wider, enough to make a difference. I
really suspect it is a waxy coating on the bead.

Trevor

I now need a 700 x 25c tire on my front and I think just to be safe I will
take it to my LBS. Better safe than sorry out on the road.
Bill Baka

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Hello All

Thanks to everyone for all the help. I believe I now have the answer. It's a
problem with the rim.

I went back to the bike shop. Without even looking at it, a technician there
said it was the rim. He was so sure, he said he would not even try mounting
the tire for me for fear it would blow out in the shop. Skeptical, since the
last tire held fine, I had them give me a new set of tires - a different
brand and configuration - 90 lb tires instead of 105, a rough bead and not
Kevlar. The front seated nice and tight into the rim, but I could not get
the rear one to sit low in the rim once it was pressured up - no matter how
much I fiddled with it. After gradually bringing it up to 90 lbs (I actually
used earplugs and left both rims outside) -- 20 minutes later ... KABOOM!!!
Tube number three bits the dust.

SOOOOO... now I have to figure out what to do. My front rim (a different
brand and age) is steel. No point in getting one alloy rim, so unless I can
still find a cheap steel one, I guess it's time to replace both rim, now
that I just repacked both hubs :O( I don't even know what size rims to put
on this. I have a road bike with 700s on it. Maybe I'll try those rims on
and seeing how it lines up with the brakes. A lot of work for a 30 year
old, $79 10-speed.

Thanks again everyone.

--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.

<snip>

Anthony Giorgianni said:

Hello All

Thanks to everyone for all the help. I believe I now have the answer. It's a
problem with the rim.

I went back to the bike shop. Without even looking at it, a technician there
said it was the rim. He was so sure, he said he would not even try mounting
the tire for me for fear it would blow out in the shop. Skeptical, since the
last tire held fine, I had them give me a new set of tires - a different
brand and configuration - 90 lb tires instead of 105, a rough bead and not
Kevlar. The front seated nice and tight into the rim, but I could not get
the rear one to sit low in the rim once it was pressured up - no matter how
much I fiddled with it. After gradually bringing it up to 90 lbs (I actually
used earplugs and left both rims outside) -- 20 minutes later ... KABOOM!!!
Tube number three bits the dust.

Well, now we know for sure. Reports like this do teach us things.

Quoted message said:

SOOOOO... now I have to figure out what to do. My front rim (a different
brand and age) is steel. No point in getting one alloy rim, so unless I can
still find a cheap steel one, I guess it's time to replace both rim, now
that I just repacked both hubs

I wouldn't use steel rims, unless I lived in someplace as dry as Nevada.
With steel rims, the braking in the wet scary-dismal. I know that by
experience.

:O( I don't even know what size rims to put

Quoted message said:

on this. I have a road bike with 700s on it. Maybe I'll try those rims on
and seeing how it lines up with the brakes. A lot of work for a 30 year
old, $79 10-speed.

It may be worth the time to troll the thrift stores and garage sales for
a while. You might be able to find a very inexpensive used bike with
decent aluminum-rimmed wheels.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Thanks Frank

But after this experience, I done with used rims. Ain't worth my ears or my
nerves :O(

--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.

"Frank Krygowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anthony Giorgianni said:

It may be worth the time to troll the thrift stores and garage sales for

a while. You might be able to find a very inexpensive used bike with
decent aluminum-rimmed wheels.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Anthony Giorgianni said:

Thanks Frank

But after this experience, I done with used rims. Ain't worth my ears or my
nerves :O(

All rims are used, as soon as they've been on a bike once. Some are
just more used than others. I've seen numerous $20 road bikes with
aluminum 27" rims showing little or no wear on bikes at Goodwill in
the past several months. Since I have no need for another road or
touring bike right now, I have been passing them up.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Anthony Giorgianni said:

Hello All

Thanks to everyone for all the help. I believe I now have the answer. It's a
problem with the rim.

I went back to the bike shop. Without even looking at it, a technician there
said it was the rim. He was so sure, he said he would not even try mounting
the tire for me for fear it would blow out in the shop. Skeptical, since the
last tire held fine, I had them give me a new set of tires - a different
brand and configuration - 90 lb tires instead of 105, a rough bead and not
Kevlar. The front seated nice and tight into the rim, but I could not get
the rear one to sit low in the rim once it was pressured up - no matter how
much I fiddled with it. After gradually bringing it up to 90 lbs (I actually
used earplugs and left both rims outside) -- 20 minutes later ... KABOOM!!!
Tube number three bits the dust.

SOOOOO... now I have to figure out what to do. My front rim (a different
brand and age) is steel. No point in getting one alloy rim, so unless I can
still find a cheap steel one, I guess it's time to replace both rim, now
that I just repacked both hubs :O( I don't even know what size rims to put
on this. I have a road bike with 700s on it. Maybe I'll try those rims on
and seeing how it lines up with the brakes. A lot of work for a 30 year
old, $79 10-speed.

Wait a minute. I thought you had originally said that the front and
rear rims were the same; had the rear perhaps been swapped out at some
point? What you're describing here sounds very much as though the
rear was a 700C rim with a 27" tire on it; that's consistent with the
results you describe.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:22:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Anthony Giorgianni said:

Hello All

Thanks to everyone for all the help. I believe I now have the answer. It's a
problem with the rim.

I went back to the bike shop. Without even looking at it, a technician there
said it was the rim. He was so sure, he said he would not even try mounting
the tire for me for fear it would blow out in the shop. Skeptical, since the
last tire held fine, I had them give me a new set of tires - a different
brand and configuration - 90 lb tires instead of 105, a rough bead and not
Kevlar. The front seated nice and tight into the rim, but I could not get
the rear one to sit low in the rim once it was pressured up - no matter how
much I fiddled with it. After gradually bringing it up to 90 lbs (I actually
used earplugs and left both rims outside) -- 20 minutes later ... KABOOM!!!
Tube number three bits the dust.

Well, now we know for sure. Reports like this do teach us things.

Quoted message said:

SOOOOO... now I have to figure out what to do. My front rim (a different
brand and age) is steel. No point in getting one alloy rim, so unless I can
still find a cheap steel one, I guess it's time to replace both rim, now
that I just repacked both hubs

I wouldn't use steel rims, unless I lived in someplace as dry as Nevada.
With steel rims, the braking in the wet scary-dismal. I know that by
experience.

It's certainly how I got my 'car drove into me at speed' story. Mind
you, I wan't wearing a helmet, so I'm probably no longer with you to
post this... ;-)

....
--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

Actually, I had forgotten that over the years, I had replaced each of the
rims at different times. The back one is stamped prominently in the steel -
"RIGIDA 18*630 (27 1 1/4) <> 32 92 21 <> STEEL MADE IN FRANCE"

The scary thing is there is no way, looking at this rim, that you would
suspect any problem. Anyone want to buy a used rim :O)

--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:59:24 GMT, "Anthony Giorgianni"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Wait a minute. I thought you had originally said that the front and
rear rims were the same; had the rear perhaps been swapped out at some
point? What you're describing here sounds very much as though the
rear was a 700C rim with a 27" tire on it; that's consistent with the
results you describe.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Oh, and I did buy both rims new.

--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.
"Anthony Giorgianni" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually, I had forgotten that over the years, I had replaced each of the
rims at different times. The back one is stamped prominently in the

steel -

Quoted message said:

"RIGIDA 18*630 (27 1 1/4) <> 32 92 21 <> STEEL MADE IN FRANCE"

The scary thing is there is no way, looking at this rim, that you would
suspect any problem. Anyone want to buy a used rim :O)

--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting

back

Quoted message said:

to the newsgroup.

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:59:24 GMT, "Anthony Giorgianni"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Wait a minute. I thought you had originally said that the front and
rear rims were the same; had the rear perhaps been swapped out at some
point? What you're describing here sounds very much as though the
rear was a 700C rim with a 27" tire on it; that's consistent with the
results you describe.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Don't think anyone still is watching this thread... but just in case anyone
ever Googles it ....

I ended up getting a replacement steel rim 27 1/4 for $30. Just couldn't
justify getting two new alloys for this old bike. 95 pound tube has been on
for at least a week and holds just fine!!!!! So it looks like it was the
rim - just couldn't hold a tire any longer.

Thanks again everyone.

--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.