wheelset recommendations for my needs?

[quote="ken800"] I am looking for light weight, aerodynamic and low rolling resistance (low spoke count and bladed obviously), and a comfortable ride. .... but I do have enough specifics to narrow down my choices and then just buy what is best deal.QUOTE]

How exactly does this narrow it down??? As if you'd be looking for heavy, non-aero, high-friction wheels!! :-)

I loaded up a set of Rolf Prima Vigors a week ago and they seem fine (so far) for your application. I rode them in a Century, have gone climbing hard, been through windy stuff ("iffy" in sidewinds compared to low-profile wheels), etc., etc. They aren't terribly stiff to me, and I weigh only 155lbs. At ~1450g, seems like a good bargain. Downside is if you bust a spoke, you have some serious trouble -- there aren't many, and even if you have a spare on you, the nipples are inside the rim. Yeah, I'm nervous about that.

ken800 said:

My bike came with XERO wheels on it which seem quite heavy but I can't get data from xerowheels since they are "oem" spec and aren't on the website...

I won't be racing -- ever... I will ride the centuries, MS150, and other organized rides, but will do so for the ride and not actually race per se... I weight about 171 lbs and am 6' tall.

I am looking for light weight, aerodynamic and low rolling resistance (low spoke count and bladed obviously), and a comfortable ride. These need to be "everyday" wheels in the 700c clincher variety. I know there are tradeoffs with each design -- really light genrally means really stiff, etc., but I know there are some great "all around wheels"

I've looked at bontrager race X lite, ksyrium sl, velomax ascent II, rolf vigor, american classic 350/420, and a few others...

I know that this topic generally gets beat to death, but I do have enough specifics to narrow down my choices and then just buy what is best deal.

thanks in advance for help/advice.

If it came with heavy, probably cheapwheels, it's likely a heavy cheap bike. Why spend a fortune on chi-chi wheels? Open Pro rims,ultegra hubs and DB spokes from colorado cyclist or excel sports are more than adequate for what you are doing, and you will have lots left over for beer and pizza.

boudreaux said:

If it came with heavy, probably cheapwheels, it's likely a heavy cheap bike. Why spend a fortune on chi-chi wheels? Open Pro rims,ultegra hubs and DB spokes from colorado cyclist or excel sports are more than adequate for what you are doing, and you will have lots left over for beer and pizza.

the bike is fairly nice i think. it's a giant tcr aluminum with an ultregra group on it. The xero wheels are xero XSR-2 lites which aren't on the website and I can't get zero to give me any information. I suspect the bike is probably 17 lbs or so, but that is just a guess. Even looking at $2500 bikes, you don't find these top line wheels usually. From a physics standpoint, which would you rather have -- an awesome frame and group and really heavy/[censored] wheels and tires or a moderate frame and group and an amazing wheelset? Rotational mass is the best place to remove weight from the bike - period... And it's not like I can't take the wheels off and put them on a nicer bike in the future...

ken800 said:

the bike is fairly nice i think. it's a giant tcr aluminum with an ultregra group on it. The xero wheels are xero XSR-2 lites which aren't on the website and I can't get zero to give me any information. I suspect the bike is probably 17 lbs or so, but that is just a guess. Even looking at $2500 bikes, you don't find these top line wheels usually. From a physics standpoint, which would you rather have -- an awesome frame and group and really heavy/[censored] wheels and tires or a moderate frame and group and an amazing wheelset? Rotational mass is the best place to remove weight from the bike - period... And it's not like I can't take the wheels off and put them on a nicer bike in the future...

Believe that lightweight wheels are overrated for the type of riding you're doing. When you're accelerating, the great majority of your power goes into the linear acceleration of your body and bike, not the rotational acceleration of the wheels....they're just not that heavy anymore. And, unless you're racing, do you really care if you can accelerate the bike 1-2% quicker in a sprint?

For hill climbing at a steady pace, if you can save a pound off the wheels, that will put you up the hill about 0.5% faster.

Same for the aero benefits. For an elite TT rider at 30 mph, I've read that the best aero wheelset can save 30 seconds over an hour....assuming no crosswinds.

As a club and Century rider, I'd go for durability any time over the last 200 grams of weight savings. "Amazing" to me would be a wheelset and hub that would stay true and run smooth forever....or maybe 20,000 miles.

ken800 said:

the bike is fairly nice i think. it's a giant tcr aluminum with an ultregra group on it. The xero wheels are xero XSR-2 lites which aren't on the website and I can't get zero to give me any information. I suspect the bike is probably 17 lbs or so, but that is just a guess. Even looking at $2500 bikes, you don't find these top line wheels usually. From a physics standpoint, which would you rather have -- an awesome frame and group and really heavy/[censored] wheels and tires or a moderate frame and group and an amazing wheelset? Rotational mass is the best place to remove weight from the bike - period... And it's not like I can't take the wheels off and put them on a nicer bike in the future...

Well, my two cents are either of these two wheelsets from Dave's Wheels:

http://speeddream.com/road.php

I have been riding on the Aerolites as my everyday training wheel for a couple seasons now. They are a great, solid wheel and both failry aero and light. Each have spokes you can easily replace as needed from any LBS. Havent trued them yet.

I'll probably get a set of R359s soon and put the older Aerolites on my other bike. Its true that you can get a lighter wheelset, or a more aero wheelset, for particular circumstances or racing. For an everyday wheelset though, these are great.

No doubt a basic Mavic Open Pro build from anywhere is going to be cheaper and possibly suitable for you as well, as suggested by someone else. Depends what you wish to spend.

One thing to keep in mind - light weight/low spoke count and comfortable ride tend to be mutually exclusive. This is to say, the more performance oriented the wheel is, the stiffer it is, and the harsher it will ride. Probably not the best buy for distance.

OTOH, if you want a set of hotrod wheels for those times when you feel the need for speed, look into a wheelset I've had for a couple of years - the Rolf Vector Pro. They are an earlier version of the RolfPrima Vigor, and can commonly be found on ebay for < $300 a set - a nice way to try out performance wheels without busting the bank.

I'm of the opinion that a good set of wheels is a great addition to an average bike - you can take them off and move them to a better bike when the time comes.

JohnO said:

One thing to keep in mind - light weight/low spoke count and comfortable ride tend to be mutually exclusive. This is to say, the more performance oriented the wheel is, the stiffer it is, and the harsher it will ride. Probably not the best buy for distance.

OTOH, if you want a set of hotrod wheels for those times when you feel the need for speed, look into a wheelset I've had for a couple of years - the Rolf Vector Pro. They are an earlier version of the RolfPrima Vigor, and can commonly be found on ebay for < $300 a set - a nice way to try out performance wheels without busting the bank.

I'm of the opinion that a good set of wheels is a great addition to an average bike - you can take them off and move them to a better bike when the time comes.

Not sure where you're based but some of the UK-based mail order / online shops are heavily discounting Mavic wheels the moment.
I got a set of Mavic Cosmos from www.xpedia.co.uk for £120 a couple of weeks ago and the higher end wheelsets are also very good value.
I can get some other sites for you if you want.

JohnO said:

I'm of the opinion that a good set of wheels is a great addition to an average bike - you can take them off and move them to a better bike when the time comes.

Thanks for the feedback everyone... I tend to agree with the above statement. I'm not so sure that a great vs. a fair set of wheels will only make a 1-2% difference. Accelerating rotational mass consumes quite a bit more effort than accelerating lighter wheels. The farther the weight is from center, the more the effect. From my experience in high horsepower competition vehicles, light weight and smaller circumferance wheels are ALWAYS part of the equation and can be felt significantly. It's like bolting on extra horsepower. Assume the "oem" xeros are 1800gm/pair which is probably a fair estimate, plus the 250gm/ea michelins, that's 2300 grams of rotational mass. Move to a 1450gm/pair wheelset with some lighter clinchers -- say 185 gm variety, and the total is now 1900gm totaling 400 grams of difference. That's about a pound of rotating mass shaved off. On a longer ride that is a mix of flat and hills where you vary your speed quite a bit (big group rides always do), I'd bet quite a bit that the weight savings, over the course of the ride, would help a lot more than 1-2%...

cane creek has some nice graphics and such that touch on the topic a bit....

here is the site:

canecreek.comproof.htmlOpen ↗

keep in mind that it isn't just the weight that counts... it's where the weight is. The more weight you have closer to the hub, the better... Obviously lighter tires can make a felt difference as well...

if you really want to know about moment of inertia when it comes to wheels, do some research and, if you are wanting to go long distances with less effort, you'll want someting light, aerodynamic, and a low MOI/Mass...

JohnO said:

I'm of the opinion that a good set of wheels is a great addition to an average bike - you can take them off and move them to a better bike when the time comes.

Thanks for the feedback everyone... I tend to agree with the above statement. I'm not so sure that a great vs. a fair set of wheels will only make a 1-2% difference. Accelerating rotational mass consumes quite a bit more effort than accelerating lighter wheels. The farther the weight is from center, the more the effect. From my experience in high horsepower competition vehicles, light weight and smaller circumferance wheels are ALWAYS part of the equation and can be felt significantly. It's like bolting on extra horsepower. Assume the "oem" xeros are 1800gm/pair which is probably a fair estimate, plus the 250gm/ea michelins, that's 2300 grams of rotational mass. Move to a 1450gm/pair wheelset with some lighter clinchers -- say 185 gm variety, and the total is now 1900gm totaling 400 grams of difference. That's about a pound of rotating mass shaved off. On a longer ride that is a mix of flat and hills where you vary your speed quite a bit (big group rides always do), I'd bet quite a bit that the weight savings, over the course of the ride, would help a lot more than 1-2%...

cane creek has some nice graphics and such that touch on the topic a bit....

here is the site:

canecreek.comproof.htmlOpen ↗

keep in mind that it isn't just the weight that counts... it's where the weight is. The more weight you have closer to the hub, the better... Obviously lighter tires can make a felt difference as well...

if you really want to know about moment of inertia when it comes to wheels, do some research and, if you are wanting to go long distances with less effort, you'll want someting light, aerodynamic, and a low MOI/Mass...

from cane creek: note that 95% of MOI relates to accelerating the wheels -- with the REST OF THE BIKE making up the last 5%...

Why does it matter for wheels?

A rider must provide more power for wheels with a larger moment of inertia. The additional power required is proportional to the additional MOI during accelerations. Lower MOI wheels accelerate more quickly and with less effort. MOI applies in addition to mass because the wheels must rotate while they translate (move from one place to another). Most parts of a bicycle, such as a frame, only translate. More than 95% of the MOI associated with propelling a bicycle is attributable to the wheels. So, even though other components such as cranks, pedals and chain rings rotate, their moment of inertia is practically not worth worrying about. This means that gram for gram, the wheels are the most important components on a bicycle.

ken800 said:

Thanks for the feedback everyone... I tend to agree with the above statement. I'm not so sure that a great vs. a fair set of wheels will only make a 1-2% difference. Accelerating rotational mass consumes quite a bit more effort than accelerating lighter wheels. The farther the weight is from center, the more the effect. From my experience in high horsepower competition vehicles, light weight and smaller circumferance wheels are ALWAYS part of the equation and can be felt significantly. It's like bolting on extra horsepower. Assume the "oem" xeros are 1800gm/pair which is probably a fair estimate, plus the 250gm/ea michelins, that's 2300 grams of rotational mass. Move to a 1450gm/pair wheelset with some lighter clinchers -- say 185 gm variety, and the total is now 1900gm totaling 400 grams of difference. That's about a pound of rotating mass shaved off. On a longer ride that is a mix of flat and hills where you vary your speed quite a bit (big group rides always do), I'd bet quite a bit that the weight savings, over the course of the ride, would help a lot more than 1-2%...

cane creek has some nice graphics and such that touch on the topic a bit....

here is the site:

canecreek.comproof.htmlOpen ↗

keep in mind that it isn't just the weight that counts... it's where the weight is. The more weight you have closer to the hub, the better... Obviously lighter tires can make a felt difference as well...

if you really want to know about moment of inertia when it comes to wheels, do some research and, if you are wanting to go long distances with less effort, you'll want someting light, aerodynamic, and a low MOI/Mass...

from cane creek: note that 95% of MOI relates to accelerating the wheels -- with the REST OF THE BIKE making up the last 5%...

Why does it matter for wheels?

A rider must provide more power for wheels with a larger moment of inertia. The additional power required is proportional to the additional MOI during accelerations. Lower MOI wheels accelerate more quickly and with less effort. MOI applies in addition to mass because the wheels must rotate while they translate (move from one place to another). Most parts of a bicycle, such as a frame, only translate. More than 95% of the MOI associated with propelling a bicycle is attributable to the wheels. So, even though other components such as cranks, pedals and chain rings rotate, their moment of inertia is practically not worth worrying about. This means that gram for gram, the wheels are the most important components on a bicycle.

Ken: Yes, interesting website. The "equivalent mass" equation shows the source of the commonly used assumption that wheel mass is worth two-times non-rotating weight. (If you take the I/r2 term, use worst-case assumption that all the mass is located at radius r, the term degenerates to m.) Of course, this applies only when a>0, ie, when the bike is accelerating.

Can't argue with any of their illustrations. But, the equations never illustrate the relative contribution of the wheels to the total weight being accelerated. Of course, Cane Creek is in business to sell lightweight wheels; that's what their website is for.

To get an idea of the relatively small torque required to accelerate the wheels, just put your bike on a stand and crank up the rear wheel. Moderate pressure with one hand on the pedal will accelerate the wheel pretty quickly. Compare that to the huge pedal force it takes on the road to accelerate at the same rate.

On the other hand, just like having a two pound lighter bike, it's going to feel more responsive when you step on the pedal. I'm sure you'll notice a subjective difference in the way the bike feels when you jump to catch a wheel or sprint up a hill.