Average TdF Hematocrite Levels

Brenton James said:

Looks like a lot of riders are preparing themselves near %50 for the start.
Also shows that there probably isn't much any EPO use during the race.
But I don't know what is a normal hematocrit for a UCI top 200 rider.
Anyone know of average hematocrit levels from out of competition testing?

It might still be high. I recently read that EPO stimulates
angiogenesis (the fabled capillary development that is supposed to come
from doing millions of miles of base work). So there would be a reason
for someone to use it off season, and the potential for long lasting
performance benefits independent of increased red cell volume. As with
any protein in the genome, EPO probably has more than one role.

From

http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=B&level1=2&level2=0&idnews=2919

As far as hematology results are concerned, the Sport Security
Condition Commission for Sport conducted 189 controls before the
departure of the Tour. The average hematocrite was 44.8% and the
average hemoglobin was 14. 9g/dl.

Later on, 107 additional blood controls were performed before July
13th and showed averages of hematocrite of 43.3% and hemoglobin of
14.6 g/dl.

During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
14.1.

Regards!
Stephen

Those results make me feel good!
my hemocrit is 43.1 and hemoglobin at 14.7 ...
and I don't take any drugs or medicine ...and I'm 67 years old.
hard to believe these guys are taking drugs to increase those
particular blood levels when that much can be accomplished by a
combination of genetics and good eating and good training.

charlie in ct.

Steve McGinty said:

From

http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=B&level1=2&level2=0&idnews=2919

As far as hematology results are concerned, the Sport Security
Condition Commission for Sport conducted 189 controls before the
departure of the Tour. The average hematocrite was 44.8% and the
average hemoglobin was 14. 9g/dl.

Later on, 107 additional blood controls were performed before July
13th and showed averages of hematocrite of 43.3% and hemoglobin of
14.6 g/dl.

During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
14.1.

Regards!
Stephen

"Brenton James" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Looks like a lot of riders are preparing themselves near %50 for the start.
Also shows that there probably isn't much any EPO use during the race.
But I don't know what is a normal hematocrit for a UCI top 200 rider.
Anyone know of average hematocrit levels from out of competition testing?

I read an interview with dr. Ivan Van Mol from Quickstep-Davitamon.
The Quickstep riders have an average hematocrit of 42-43. But i don't
know when these tests were done. He also said his riders ended the
tour with a level of 38. Good news if that is true.

Kenny

Steve McGinty <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
14.1.

If you have an average of 42 during the last week of the Tour, that
means there are some riders with 45 then. Obviously something is
wrong then.

Kenny

Is 45 really that unnatural? Especially when considering that these are pro
endurance athletes... not average citizens.

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve McGinty <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
14.1.

If you have an average of 42 during the last week of the Tour, that
means there are some riders with 45 then. Obviously something is
wrong then.

Kenny

I wonder what the levels were in other past years?

"Steve McGinty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From

http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=B&level1=2&level2=0&idnews=2919

As far as hematology results are concerned, the Sport Security
Condition Commission for Sport conducted 189 controls before the
departure of the Tour. The average hematocrite was 44.8% and the
average hemoglobin was 14. 9g/dl.

Later on, 107 additional blood controls were performed before July
13th and showed averages of hematocrite of 43.3% and hemoglobin of
14.6 g/dl.

During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
14.1.

Regards!
Stephen

Brenton James said:

Is 45 really that unnatural? Especially when considering that these
are pro endurance athletes... not average citizens.

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve McGinty <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were
performed, and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were
respectively 42.3% and 14.1.

If you have an average of 42 during the last week of the Tour, that
means there are some riders with 45 then. Obviously something is
wrong then.

Kenny

Of all the sources I've read, normal range of hematocrit for men is
between 40 and 50 or 52, depending on whose range you use. Normal
hemoglobin is between 13 and 18. If you start with a hematocrit of 48
and hemolysis induced by 3 weeks in the Tour leaves you at 45, thats not
wrong if the overall drop in the mean is 2.5.

Mark

Checking my lab reports I see that in 2000 my hematocrit was 48.1 and
hemoglobin 16.0. Most recently (2003) they were 44.1 and 14.9. I'm in the
mid 50's and ride/race 7-9,000 miles a year. I don't know why they were so
high in 2000. I've never taken any drugs other than vitamins and minerals. I
do see a correlation between a high serum iron level of 169 in 2000 and
lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements? Or we'd become
magnetic.

Vol

"Brenton James" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Is 45 really that unnatural? Especially when considering that these are

pro

Quoted message said:

endurance athletes... not average citizens.

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve McGinty <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
14.1.

If you have an average of 42 during the last week of the Tour, that
means there are some riders with 45 then. Obviously something is
wrong then.

Kenny

Voltaire said:

Checking my lab reports I see that in 2000 my hematocrit was 48.1 and
hemoglobin 16.0. Most recently (2003) they were 44.1 and 14.9. I'm in the
mid 50's and ride/race 7-9,000 miles a year. I don't know why they were
so
high in 2000. I've never taken any drugs other than vitamins and
minerals. I
do see a correlation between a high serum iron level of 169 in 2000 and
lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements? Or we'd become
magnetic.

Vol

One theory says that it's iron that causes a lot of heart disease. So,
you might die earlier than "planned."

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Voltaire said:

Checking my lab reports I see that in 2000 my hematocrit was 48.1 and
hemoglobin 16.0. Most recently (2003) they were 44.1 and 14.9. I'm in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mid 50's and ride/race 7-9,000 miles a year. I don't know why they were
so
high in 2000. I've never taken any drugs other than vitamins and
minerals. I
do see a correlation between a high serum iron level of 169 in 2000 and
lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements? Or we'd become
magnetic.

Vol

One theory says that it's iron that causes a lot of heart disease. So,
you might die earlier than "planned."

It's not a theory but a major toxicity of prolonged iron
administration/absorbtion. Lots of liver damage too. Normally a genetic
defect in some individuals causes the problem. The advent of prolonged EPO
use with concurrent iron supplementation has, apparently, made it not
uncommon among riders in the peloton. My last sentence is based upon the
report of french physicians who stated that many former french pros had
evidence of increased iron deposition (nice way of stating
hemochromatosis/hemosidderosous). The actual names of riders, severity of
illness and whether they require treatment (chronic blood letting) has never
been reported as far as I can tell.
-Mike

"Voltaire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements? Or we'd become
magnetic.

Have you thought about what 'iron fortified' means?

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_091.html

"Brenton James" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Is 45 really that unnatural? Especially when considering that these are pro
endurance athletes... not average citizens.

Not really. You have to realize that even to get to that level, their
bodies typically have _something_ different about them. Some have
very high natural Hematocrit, some don't generate lactic acid at the
same level as most, some have insanely high VO2, etc. Sure there are
drugs that alter these numbers, but to compare TdF athletes values
with common couch potatoes that never amounted to anything
athletically isn't a fair assessment.

-a (natural hematocrit only 44)

"Voltaire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Checking my lab reports I see that in 2000 my hematocrit was 48.1 and
hemoglobin 16.0. Most recently (2003) they were 44.1 and 14.9. I'm in the
mid 50's and ride/race 7-9,000 miles a year. I don't know why they were so
high in 2000.

Could be how/when your blood was drawn - hematocrit changes within minutes
depending on posture, size of vessel, whether or not stasis is used. etc.

Quoted message said:

I've never taken any drugs other than vitamins and minerals. I
do see a correlation between a high serum iron level of 169 in 2000 and
lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements?

If, and only if, you were truly iron deficient.

Andy Coggan

"Mike Owens" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Voltaire said:

Checking my lab reports I see that in 2000 my hematocrit was 48.1 and
hemoglobin 16.0. Most recently (2003) they were 44.1 and 14.9. I'm in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mid 50's and ride/race 7-9,000 miles a year. I don't know why they

were

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so
high in 2000. I've never taken any drugs other than vitamins and
minerals. I
do see a correlation between a high serum iron level of 169 in 2000

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements? Or we'd

become

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

magnetic.

Vol

One theory says that it's iron that causes a lot of heart disease. So,
you might die earlier than "planned."

It's not a theory but a major toxicity of prolonged iron
administration/absorbtion. Lots of liver damage too. Normally a genetic
defect in some individuals causes the problem. The advent of prolonged

EPO

Quoted message said:

use with concurrent iron supplementation has, apparently, made it not
uncommon among riders in the peloton. My last sentence is based upon the
report of french physicians who stated that many former french pros had
evidence of increased iron deposition (nice way of stating
hemochromatosis/hemosidderosous).

Alternatively, cyclists and/or their doctors simply have a tendency to dose
themselves with iron [censored]-nilly, i.e., w/o any regard as to whether they
really need it or not.

Andy Coggan

In article <[email hidden]>, Andy

Coggan said:

"Mike Owens" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's not a theory but a major toxicity of prolonged iron
administration/absorbtion. Lots of liver damage too. Normally a genetic
defect in some individuals causes the problem. The advent of prolonged

EPO

Quoted message said:

use with concurrent iron supplementation has, apparently, made it not
uncommon among riders in the peloton. My last sentence is based upon the
report of french physicians who stated that many former french pros had
evidence of increased iron deposition (nice way of stating
hemochromatosis/hemosidderosous).

Alternatively, cyclists and/or their doctors simply have a tendency to dose
themselves with iron [censored]-nilly, i.e., w/o any regard as to whether they
really need it or not.

Since I don't eat much red meat I was advised by someone who might know
that I should try to eat some red meat at least once a week, preferably
not overcooked, to make sure I was getting enough hem-iron (or however
that's written).

Any thoughts on this part of iron needs? What does a non-meat eater do
for hemiron needs?

-WG

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alternatively, cyclists and/or their doctors simply have a tendency to

dose

Quoted message said:

themselves with iron [censored]-nilly, i.e., w/o any regard as to whether they
really need it or not.

You wouldn't be indicating that perhaps the advertisements such as
"One-a-day Vitamins WITH IRON" as if it is some magic potion might not be
all that beneficial to society at large?

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since I don't eat much red meat I was advised by someone who might know
that I should try to eat some red meat at least once a week, preferably
not overcooked, to make sure I was getting enough hem-iron (or however
that's written).

Any thoughts on this part of iron needs? What does a non-meat eater do
for hemiron needs?

We don't do anything for heme iron needs, since heme is an animal-only
molecule. We can, however, do something about our porphyrin iron needs. Heme
is a modification of a basic iron-cage system called porphyrin and is found
in dark green leafy vegetables. Hence the reason why spinach is a good
source of iron, for a vegetable. Broccoli also has porphyrin, but is known
more for it's calcium content (calcium shares one of the same ionization
states as iron and so can also bind the porphyrin ring). The absorption of
iron in the gut is greatly accentuated by the ionization state of iron that
is bound to heme, so heme iron is more bioavailable. Less so for porphyrin
iron, but still better than a naked iron salt, since the chemistry of the
gut can skew the ionization state of naked iron to disfavour absorption.

I try to eat healthy for my iron, but occassionally take an iron pill when
I'm feeling low on energy (last time was about 2 weeks ago). Although it
claims to contain 300 mg, I optimistically hope to absorb 80-100 mg of that,
downing it with a glass of orange juice to adjust the gut chemistry to a
more favourable environment. My performance suffered badly one season from
enemia (whoop, almost typed enema) before I became educated on sources of
iron, and I remain just on the normal side of anemia today, so I try to pay
attention to my iron intake. Now that I live in the land of plenty, I should
just go out and buy an iron shot in the Apotheke.